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Toyota Tacoma vs. Ford Ranger, Part XII

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Comments

  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    I didn't doubt the recall stuff. Our whole family has always had a big problem with buying a car the first year after its redesign. Initial quality carries little weight with us. I mean look at the truck of the year in your post. I have heard of tons of problems with that thing. You know as well as I do that chevys just don't hold up. Any manufacturer can make a car that is totally awesome for a group that tests it for 200 miles. The real test is whether or not it will stay fun to drive, squeak-free, and problem free for 100k+ miles. I have no doubt that the Altima is a good car - but it is still a new model and there is still plenty of time for problems to start showing up (camry too). I would like 'em to get one of those (or a Max) simply cuz their so fast - fun to drive. But I realize that there is lots more involved for them. L8r.
  • tbundertbunder Posts: 580
    yes, but the altima, along with all other nissan cars 'cept for the sentra, does not have any recalls. all you have to do is look at a nissan, altima, xterra, maxima. those things are built so tight, its hard to believe they were once pieces. and the 240 horses in the altima just blows away the camry's 190, and for less money.

    scorpio- i doubt the FX4 develops any more problems. after all, its really just an off-road ranger, 'cept for that torsen. and imo, the ranger is the best ford vehicle built.
  • That we don't care about the Escape, even though it is the best selling SUV in it's class. Sort of like how "we" don't care about camry defects.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    simply because I don't care for Camry in particular, and small (comparatively speaking) cars in general. THats not to say that I don't admit that Camry had a recall, sure it had. However, in comparison to other automakers, Toyota still shines.
  • kbtoyskbtoys Posts: 62
    Ok lets just take a look at the year 2001 for toyota vs ford recalls.


    Total number of recalls

    ford=61

    toyota=6


    Here are the recalls for ford

                       model = #number of recalls

    E150=1

    E350=1

    ECONOLINE=1

    ESCAPE=5

    EXCURSION=3

    EXPEDITION=4

    EXPLORER=1

    EXPLORER SPORT=1

    EXPLORER SPORT TRAC=1

    F SUPER DUTY=1

    F150=6

    F250=3

    F350=4

    F450=4

    F550=3

    F650=2

    RANGER=2

    WINDSTAR=6

    CROWN VICTORIA=3

    FOCUS=2

    MUSTANG=1

    TAURUS=6


    Now for toyota

                       model = #number of recalls AVALON=1

    CAMRY=2

    PRIUS=1

    HIGHLANDER=1

    SIENNA=1


    this was from http://www.nhtsa.com/


    I didn't think this would take me that long to count the recalls but when I started I had to finish.

    Now not to give Toyota all the credit if you want to compare for 2002. Ford is killing Toyota with Ford having less recalls than Toyota. For the drum roll

    FORD has one recall so far, and Toyota has two. :)

    If I was a betting man I would bet that Ford will have more recalls than Toyota at the end of 2002.

  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    Thats pretty much the only thing I could blame for the Ford recall problems. They didnt stay in business building completely horrible vehicles. Some of them still appeal to the public. I guess the mass production results in lower standards and lower quality control.
    I don't know if thats a joke about Camrys being hand-built, but Isuzu VehiCROSS (I've had my eye on it since it came out last year, but didnt want it with auto tranny, the only one they had) is hand-built, and seems to be running without any recalls in the first year. Not bad for a totally new SUV, just from the drawing board.
  • eagle63eagle63 Posts: 599
    I really like the new altima. If I was shopping for that type of vehicle, I'd definitely get one before I'd get a Camry. The old altimas used to be terribly boring, but the new one is great. (even if they did totally copy the Passat in terms of styling) Now if only Nissan would fix the rear end of the Maxima...
  • Maybe they will fix the Maxima's posterior end - the 2003 model is supposed to be redesigned. I personally don't like the Altima but like the Maxima, except for the botched rear end. Hopefully, they'll fix it so I can consider buying one next year.

    Just got back from from a business trip and had to do a few presentations. YECH!!! Good to see tbundy's still around!

    Scorpio's words: "I guess the mass production results in lower standards and lower quality control."

    Just depends on who's doing the mass production. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but the Corolla is the most mass-produced vehicle in the world, and the Camry has been America's #1 selling car for 4 or 5 years now, and they're not recall-ridden.

    I find it amusing Ford has so many problems, yet Lincoln (a subsidary of Ford) is squeaky clean in comparison. Just goes to show Ford is capable but not always willing to build quality. And why should they be? There will always be the gullible tbunders of the world ready to surrender their money to Ford and their "Quality is job #1" slogan.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    Ford is building vehicles for ....well, lower end of middle class. Lincoln is building vehicles for upper middle class. Same as Toyota and Lexus.
    With so many people buying Ford, why should they spend extra money on doing things "more right" which would jack the price up? Remember the flaming ball of fire Pinto?
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    Good to see you're back.
    I just got back from the Den again today (yes, tbunder, I did go out wheeling. I'll post you a damn picture since you don't believe me), had major body damage to one of the trucks. One of the members' SAS'ed flatbed 1999 Taco rolled over completely in a big hole. Took 2 Tacos and a Unimog to winch it out.
  • Flaming ball of fire Pintos, huh? What about the Mustang whose gas tank would explode into the passenger compartment in a rear-end collision? Or Expeditions with their wheels falling off? Or the Explorer's slashed tires and roll-over tendencies? The list goes on and on...

    One of these days I'm going to have to go to the "Den" and see what it's all about. But I don't think I'm going to be as hard on my truck as some of those guys appear to be.

    Keep me posted when you guys plan to have your next get together. With a little notice, I might be able to get up there.
  • kg11kg11 Posts: 530
    meets most people's expectations and as for lincoln,toyota,and lexus.Is the slight dif in quality worth the price?If you plan to keep a vehicle 15-20 years it could be,but most of us don't want the same car for 200k.As long as any defects are repaired under warranty,I save $ on the initial purchase,and I get a good price when I sell,then who cares if the drivetrain lasts twice as long as the upholstry?
    kip
    BTW compare quality to a report card.95%,99% it's an "A" alright?
  • may meet most people's expectations, but not mine. I just looked at a new Ranger today and immediately noticed two things: misaligned front bumper and the fender flares. The flares had big old gaps between them and the truck's sheet-metal, and they were loose and could be tugged at. I'm sure my eye would have found more had this not been just a cursory glance.

    But to each his own. I personally think vehicles are a waste of money, expecially trading them in every year or so and having perpetual car payments on something that is never owned.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    I don't know about "good price when I sell it".
    Somehow I get a feeling to me that not many people want used Fords, GMs or Chevys, 4-5 year old ones. I have hard time finding a used Tacoma at the dealer lot, but there's always plenty of Fords sitting there, or somewhere on the side of a road with a "4 Sale" sign. Whats the resale value of a 1996 Ford Ranger these days (given the price for it today)?
    Personally, it would be worth the trouble for me. Think about it. Last thing I want happening is having to take my brand new truck in for axle replacement (FX4) after 1 week of owning it.
  • at the classifieds or "wheel-deals" and check out the asking prices on used Fords versus used Toyotas. I tell you what, every Toyota I've had I've sold with no problems and for a good price. That "19-- Toyota -------, high miles, well maintained with all records, one adult owner, all equipment original..." line sells them everytime.
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    What is meant by the word quality does not only mean how long the vehicle will last before it won't crank or run. When I think of quality, I think of a vehicle that you can be very tough on and it still won't let you down. A vehicle you don't have to worry about quitting in the middle of a lpng roadtrip. With my truck, I feel like it will never let me down. I have heard so many testimonies of Taco rangers beating the crap out of their trucks and still driving em back to camp - I really trust my truck to get me anywhere. My mom has had a buick and a chrysler and they both quit on trips with out family. I hated to ride with either one even after thousands of dollars spent at the shop. Is the quality worth the extra price you ask? If you take into account resale value, longevity, and, last but not least, dependability -- Toyotas have the best quality there is. IMO of course.
  • So I visited an especially cocky toyota dealer who told me why toyotas are better. Why their prices are better for resale etc. Sure they are, their fewer of them out there. If DeBeers flooded the market with diamonds, the price would go down. Toyotas have a reputatoni of high quality = high demand. Factor that with not a lot of trucks out there prices go up.

    From www.autosite.com market report sales volume.

    Truck December 2001 YTD
    F-150 84,278 911567
    Tundra 9,244 100445
    tacoma 12,388 161983
    ranger 15972 272460

    So ford sells almost as many F Series trucks as toyota sells in a year in one month. Rangers sell 110,000 more per year, increase of 68%.

    Not denying they make a great truck, my 92 xcab with 167,000 miles runs better than any s-10 with 75,000 I've seen and better than a jeep with 40,000, but stop being so freaking cocky on pricing. Sick of all these local dealers telling me to piss off because they know they can sell to someone else for just what they want. Anyone else had similar experiences? Almost making me want to buy Ford because they will work for my business.
  • kg11kg11 Posts: 530
    Us Toyota owners are arrogent too.Just because our trucks appear to have a slight edge in the 100k plus stories we tend to overlook the fact that we're paying more for a less comfortable, underpowered truck.You're right about volume.That's why scorpio can't find a used Taco.(why would he look anyway)Arrogance could be why he thinks toyotas are built for "upper-middle class".
    kip
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    Why shouldn't the dealers act like that? It might not be nice but its the truth. Right after you leave mad, there'll be someone come in that will buy the vehicle you were looking at. Toyota has one of the best names for quality out there, people will buy 'em at that price. So why should a dealer accept less than what can be had for a certain Toyota vehicle? Call it arrogance or what you want - but the fact is there. Would a Mercedes dealer sit there and entertain some complaints from a McDonalds worker who wants to make $200/month payments on a new sedan - No. (gross exaggeration, but that is kinda the way i feel).
  • I bought my Tacoma at about 3% over invoice. If somebody is having problems with a Toyota dealer, try a different one. There's plenty of crappy Ford and Chevy dealers out there as well. Ask my dad about them and all the dealer crap he put up with when he had that Plymouth Reliant. His 1986 Reliant never ran as good as his 1975 Corolla with 160K miles. Go figure. That's why we kept the Corolla all those years and unloaded that stupid Reliant.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    I could have bought a used Taco. There are people who sell them on ttora board, or pre-announce them. There just wasnt one available close to Texas and in the config. I wanted.

    I said that Ranger and Toyota are generally made for lower end of middle class. Whereas Lincoln and Lexus are made for upper end.

    And overall.....you know, Ranger just got the new engine that finally gave it an edge over Tacoma. So now Ranger owners are celebrating....they have a reason todo so, for 5 years Tacoma beat them with the same engine.
    It's not just 100K+ stories. With the publicity and track record that Ford has, they would have to try real hard to sell one to me. And I'm saying that because I havent owned one yet. (On the other hand, I've owned a Chevy, and will not buy from them again). Somehow having a Toyota gives more peace of mind. Imagine if I bought an FX4. It would have had to be a 207hp with manual tranny (because thats what I drive now), and I would either have snapped the axle at the light somewhere (the way I drive), or would have had to take it in for a recall within 1 week of purchase. How's that for a confidence builder?
  • Try working for the government and driving nothing but Fords and Chevys for the past 6 years. No way, no how would I buy one...
  • kg11kg11 Posts: 530
    I just re-read #371,sorry,I misunderstood.You're right.Ford and toyota are selling to the same merket.Lexus and lincoln also compete with each other in THIER market.There are plenty of used Tacos here in CA,but I've been told there are more of them on the road here than other states.I love my taco but I did'nt feel obligated to leave it in stock form.I replaced the seats at 3 mo(Astro van) and 4500 mi.A year later I gave it a 4" lift and 12.50x33's.Finally,and I know I'll take heat for this,I replaced the rear axle with a detroit locked Ford 9"(There was no locking diff for the v6 in '95)
    kip
    BTW can't wait till there's aftermarket pistons for my GMC 8.1
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    I could have phrased it better myself.

    I'm not leaving my Taco in stock form for long. I have some small mods, like magnaflow muffler, amsoil air/oil filter with synth. oil, deckplate (although I don't usually use it), hella lights. Small things. I still have a list of things to get like line-x/rhino or herculiner, some form of hard top, rocksliders, and ultimately, suspension lift with body lift. The only thing is that my Taco is also my daily driver, so I don't want to raise it up too much. I still like to ride down the freeway at 85-90mph without having handling problems. Oh yeah, and I'm thinking about getting one of those old caddy air compressors (electrical ones).
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    Toyota may just have to recall some of the V6s and I4s due to sludge problems. May not be the Tacoma engine, but probably ones from Sienna and others.
    Here's
    the site. So Toyota will also take care of its customers (heh, yeah, right. With a lot of pressure from the government). This was a problem in the making for the last 6 years, we'll see what happens.
    So you see, tbunder, we can also admit faults in our vehicles.
  • I like Toyota, however, if that article is accurate and Totoya treated me that way, I wouldn't be a repeat customer.
  • Even worse if you do it in your backyard. Can you prove that the case of oil a year actually went into your engine. Better get your oil changed at the dealership, no matter what.
    This isn't the first story like this I've heard.

    So scorpio, would you classify that as a design defect, or a manufacturing one? :)
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    definitely a manufacturing defect. If all the engines did that, it would be design defect.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    Problem with this sort of engine trouble is that there is no real good way to test things out. Damage is long term, so only few years down the road the company has even a chance to start fixing it.
  • 2k1trd2k1trd Posts: 301
    Sludge is from people not chamging there oil and should never be blamed on the engine.
This discussion has been closed.