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Toyota Tacoma vs. Ford Ranger, Part XII

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Comments

  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    If the weights are that close, then one of the great things about the Ranger has to go out the window. Either bigger frame, thicker panels, or just plain being stronger just isn't gonna work any more. If they were all true, then it would be at least 500 lbs heavier. Take yer pick fellas, but all that stuff won't work anymore. Hehe. And take it EZ on the dented bed stuff, there isn't a Ford S/D within a 100 mile radius of me that hasn't gotten a bed beat to hell by a 4 wheeler. It happens to anyone that uses their truck, period.

    I will say this. Those new FX4s look kinda nice. I mean, the comfy seats and the frills don't make it the off road king that it claims to be, but I like the fact that a compact is out there with some extra stuff. Still needs a locker for that sticker on the side not to be in vain. But thats another story.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    here's what I dug up:
    2002 Ford Ranger Compact Extended Cab Truck
    4dr SuperCab XLT Appearance 2WD Styleside SB (4.0L 6cyl 5A), weight 3313 lbs.

    2002 Toyota Tacoma Compact Extended Cab Truck
    2dr Xtracab PreRunner V6 2WD SB (3.4L 6cyl 4A), weight 3355.

    Are the above two not comparable? The 2 suicide doors on a Ranger don't add any weight to it.

    For a 4WD models:
    2003 Ford Ranger Compact Extended Cab Truck
    4dr SuperCab XLT FX4 Off-Road 4WD Styleside SB (4.0L 6cyl 5M) at 3584 lbs.

    2002 Toyota Tacoma Compact Extended Cab Truck
    2dr Xtracab V6 4WD SB (3.4L 6cyl 5M) at 3515 lbs.

    So......where exactly am I going wrong?
    As for driving a Ranger offroad: we ran into one this weekend. Beater truck, dents everywhere. It seems both trucks are easily damaged when you hit them against rocks.
  • allknowingallknowing Posts: 866
    Your advice to Scorp- "go drive a Ranger off-road, then you'll see what I mean by "more solidly built". No comment on the flexing doors I see".

    I agree with you that the Tacoma has thinner doors etc., however, if Scorp takes your advice he'll pick the Tacoma as it definitely has a much more solid feel off-road. Unless, of course, your opinion of "solidly built" means the truck that sways and squeeks the most.
    My Ford is a 98 and I'll concede that the new ones may be a bit better however.
  • The weight off edmunds.com quotes, especially since it lists many of the same models as having the same weight, is hard to bring it down to an strict apple vs apple comparison. Unless someone wants to weigh in every variant, we might want to take the simplest versions of the quotes we have available and run with it. The original quote of mine, of the 2 base models on either side, amounts to around 330 lbs difference. Extended cabs/Xtra cabs, 4wd drivetrains and suspension, doors, automatic transmissions, etc, only add to that amount, not subtract.

    My best conclusions on the data above is that the underlying vehicles are close, but the Ranger is heavier(~330 lbs).

    With all the goodies mentioned above by Scorpio, both vehicles are much more similar in weight, give or take 70-80 pounds depending on how you pick the models.

    What does this prove? Mostly that Tacoma's options (4x4 components, xtra cab, etc) are heavier than the Ranger equivalent.

    Of course Ford fans can say the Ranger is just stronger to begin with, but the Toyota fans will say the Ranger has "weaker" optional equipment.

    Truth is weight has little to do with it. 100 pounds of gold is much weaker than 100 pounds of steel. However how do we compare two steel alloys under 2 different design, manufacturing and building methods?

    Shall we look at the crash statistics/ratings?
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    Yeah...but from which company? NHTSA or IIHS?

    As for weights: base weights are different because of all the standard features of Ranger. Ever try to lift an ABS controller? It's at least 30 lbs. Piece by piece, the extra weight adds up.

    The crash ratings don't matter much when there isn't any underlying skeletal structure: Saab puts titanium bars (or at least used to) along the doors and body to reinforce them. Does this influence crash tests? Yes. Does the actual body material make their crash tests 5-star? Not really. It's all about whats' underneath.
  • According to the insurance organizations, (IIHS) Tacoma and Ranger are about equal (even though I see a lot more red under Tacoma.) Overall it is a tie.

    NHTSA.gov - No contest. 4 star Ranger all the way across, 3 star Tacoma. Oops Sorry, passenger side frontal impact has 4 stars, but the rest is 3 star.

    What is interesting is the Ranger Electric has a 5 star rating.

    As for weights, Dead issue. You can not proove anything, either way. But we do have crash statistics. One tie (IIHS) and one point for Ranger (NHTSA) means what? Crashes are practical applications of rigid/stronger structures, are they not?
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Posts: 257
    that FX4-phase 2 or whatever is a bunch of ford crap.
    i see what they are doing, and i cant believe toyota guys didn't see this or at least comment on it. the phase 2 FX4 is just last years FX4, it's just that now they're calling the regular XLT ranger with the off-road pkg. an FX4 now. all the stuff mentioned in the phase 2 is identical to last years FX4 ranger, the original. words like "hardcore" are just marketing ploys to sell. it's just the same as last year. and ive already told you guys that the only real thing the FX4 has over a regular off-road ranger is tires, bilstein shocks, and a rear tow hook. add in the manual t/c if you opt for the stick. why the HECK don't they introduce a darn crew cab and call it a day. so stupid. isn't this convo getting old? jeez, it's been almost a year since ive come on here and it's the same old thing.
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    But it does have bucket seats with extra side bolstering, hehe. Is that sonic blue color the same as you had on your truck tbunder? What is the ebony trim stuff they talk about?
  • eagle63eagle63 Posts: 599
    what "KO" stands for on the BFG tires. that was sorta cool....
  • allknowingallknowing Posts: 866
    Cool, so the Phase 2 FX4 is an FX4 that doesn't fall apart in the parking lot. Good for Ford. Now it may be worth buying.
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Posts: 257
    i had bright island blue, a color discontinued by ford last november. the sonic blue is a real cool bright metallic blue. figures that they bring in my favorite color two years after i buy a ranger. oh well, w/o a crew cab, i can't buy one. im set on this jeep until its paid off. maybe then, they will have a crew cab ranger.

    allknowing- no, the phase 2 FX4 is the one that supposedly "broke down in the parking lot". i wonder if that person knows how famous his/her unfortunate accident really turned out to be. i don't think anything ever fell apart, it was the torsen lsd that malfunctioned. again, the lsd is more real world usable, thus the reason ford is not going to a locker. a lsd will get people out of 99% of any off-road situation, plus help out on-road w/o being an open t/c like the toyota locker. ill take a lsd anyday towing a boat out of water compared to an open axle like the toyota trd's are in 2hi. who wants to worry about shifting into 4lo just to tow out a boat. oh wait, my friend use to do that when he had a '94 toyota 4x4 4-cylinder. it wouldn't tow the two jet skis out in 2hi. pitiful. my ZR2 (what i had at the time to tow my two skis) would have towed out a cabin cruiser.
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    not FX4-RWU (real world usable). Hehe, thats the point. I mean, why not put the torsen in 2xs and a locker in the - and I quote - "ultimate off roader" and truck for "true off road enthusiasts." Ford said, "To better understand how the Ranger FX4/Level II came to be, one need not look further than real-world off-roader truck meets." Show me an off road comp. where even one of the trucks uses an LSD.

    Thats all Im sayin on this subject.

    My friend this, that... I could do this... You were just complaining about how things were the same one year ago.
  • allknowingallknowing Posts: 866
    Wow, Ford had a major recall on the FX4 just because one person supposedly broke down in a parking lot??? I guess Ford should have looked into the story before they had a recall and spent all that money replacing parts without reason. Most car companies wait until at least two people complain before they replace a major component don't they?
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Posts: 257
    a major recall?????? 800 affected units? and not all of them even faulty? is that what you call a "major recall?" please. a major recall is the one toyota is in right now with it's sludge engines locking up at 40K. a major recall is what gm is in right now with its suvs. a major recall is the ford/firestone recall two years ago. the FX4 was anything but major. not all of them affected, just a faulty part hence only FX4's being recalled. give me a manual transmission and a person with no consideration for the vehicle and ill show you busted axles and twisted driveshafts all day long. its not hard to do. im not making excuses, im sure the part was faulty. but i don't see them switching to another maker for their non-clutch lsd. i used that one story because that's the only story you toyota guys can come up with where a torsen has failed.

    whoever- i use to load dirt bikes and atv's all the time in full-size ford trucks (in my MX days). never did i dent any part of the bed, not even driving them into the cab and using it as a stop. a super-duty bed being dented by an atv? whatever. a tacoma bed being dented by a cooler? i'd believe that.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    but it's funny if you think about it: they've recalled half the vehicles of that model. And yes, this was the only story we could come up with, after all, that parking lot accident (as well as a couple of others: they didn't recall it based on 1 blown diff but when a pattern emerged) was the one that got all exposure: "offroad" truck blowing its' diff in a grocery shop parking lot.

    Bundy: show us some proof of your "dented by a cooler" info. I certainly see a lot of TTORA guys running around with chains and coolers in the beds, and they don't seem all dented up.
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Posts: 257
    here's what a tacoma owner said himself.

    #524 of 556 Bed by mtngal Jul 16, 2002 (11:36 pm)
    There are 2 things I noticed about the bed. The first is that it seems like it is shallower - the sides aren't as tall as our old '88 Nissan hardbody or even the S-15 (though that could be faulty memory - we bought it the first year it came out and only kept it for a couple of years). But what I was referring to is that the metal does dent and scratch much easier. I've never had a bed liner - just shells, campers or nothing on the various pickups I've owned. The Nissan's bed was hardly scratched when we sold it (11 years, 290,000 miles, and at least 5 years use as a courier vehicle after we bought it). The Tacoma already is showing paint scratches from a cooler riding in the back and a dent (not a huge one or anything). I would definitely get a bed liner for it.

    It isn't fair to compare it to my last '76 Chevy. That had carried a camper for 50,000 miles before I bought it, and then I used it to haul hay, grain, wood shavings, tack and a horse trailer. I don't think I added much to the collection of scratches and dents it already had, but it looked like what it was - a beat up old farm truck. I sold that one in very good working condition with 125,000 miles on it in '92

    scorpio- half the vehicles? do you really think manual FX4's make up half of its production? no way. i would bet that more than 95% of all FX4's have automatics. bring over your trd tacoma, its a manual isn't it? ill have the drivetrain screaming and leaking after an hour of abuse. like i said, it isn't hard; especially on a concrete surface.
  • allknowingallknowing Posts: 866
    You may get the drivetrain to leak but I'll bet the Tacoma's fuel pump will still work and the truck will start.:)
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    is not indigenous to Tacoma only: I see plenty of Rangers with busted up beds. Yes, my bed is scratched up from coolers, toolboxes and all, but I don't care. I'm going to spray it with liner at some point, and the problems will all go away.

    As for your "hour of abuse": I'm sure the parking lot accident occured after the owner smoked tires for an hour....yes.....absolutely...there's nothing wrong with Ford.....Ford is perfect....If I recall correctly, the owner gave it a little too much gas in a parking lot and boom, there goes rear axle.
    On the other hand: I've seen Tacoma smoke tires (real smoke) for maybe 30 seconds.....he still seems to be driving.

    What was the production run of FX4? Like 2000 units. Care to back up your "more than 95% of all FX4s are auto" statement?
    Because I tell you:
    If 800 recalled units were the manual ones, then it'd at most be 5% of the whole FX4 run last year. 16000 is a whole lot of FX4s not to be seen anywhere.
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Posts: 257
    yes, but at least my liberty started after a new fuel pump was fitted. unlike so many new toyota engines which locked up at 40K due to sludge problems, right? and care to comment on tacoma's camry sized a-arms and the rest of the thin chassis- compared to my new jeeps solid iron a-arms and coil suspension?? shoot, id take you off-road in my new jeep. 8 inches of up and down travel all around and a vehicle that will turn on a nickel and give you a quarter change would leave your tacoma scratching it's head.
  • "I see plenty of Rangers with busted up beds." Have you seen any Rangers with beds in pristine condition?

    "If I recall correctly, the owner gave it a little too much gas in a parking lot and boom, there goes rear axle."

    LMAO. I'm sure it was only a tiny amount of "little too much" gas, just like so many single vehicle accidents were caused by a dog that ran across the road. It all smacks of personal reconciliation.

    You can say what you will the 3rd (4th or 5th) party recollection, but common sense would say he was doing a little more than a "little too much" gas.

    The Torsen representative stated in the same forum that the failure only occurs in Peak Torque events. NHTSA says "THE REAR AXLE DIFFERENTIAL CASE COULD FRACTURE UNDER A HIGH TORQUE EVENT SUCH AS WHEN CUSTOMERS ACCELERATE RAPIDLY FROM A STOP OR WHEN A SPINNING TIRE SUDDENLY GAINS TRACTION".

    Sure sounds like a little too much gas to me.

    Finally what you may have seen first hand may be undeniable truth to your eyes, but any analytical approach will falsify the test by lack of control of the circumstances. Not everything can be submitted to a litmus test. 1096 units recalled, and the best count I've seen was 4 to 8 vehicles accually broke. That sounds like making a mountain out of a molehill.
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    You would really take on a Tacoma 4x4 TRD with your new ride in an off road contest and expect to win. Is that what you are saying here? Just checking. Go flex out that liberty and take some pics, you might find that its a total of 8", 4 up and 4 down. I am sure that my back axle flexes way more than 8 inches - if someone would tell me how high the bump stop is I could be sure.

    And since you brought it up, I thought from the first time I laid eyes on one, that the Liberty had some pencil thin lower control arms, they actuall have a 90 deg bend in them don't they, that's not a little weak?
  • eagle63eagle63 Posts: 599
    over the last 6 years, there's been about 20 recalls to the ranger and 3 for the tacoma. Say what you will, but that's not too impressive if you're a ranger fan.
  • lariat1lariat1 Posts: 461
    I think if you go out and measure you will find that your rear axle has close to 8" of travel and probably no more.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    Hmm.....so does that mean that actual 3000 sludged up 3.0L engines are not a big deal? There are few million (I think 3M) of them on the road.....that sounds like making a mountain out of a molehill.

    As for blown diffs: maybe it's not a big deal. It's just strange to see an "offroad" truck blow a diff in a parking lot. How much "a little too much gas" is it? You be the judge. Parking lots aren't drag strips.
  • I actually don't recall saying anything about sludged up Toyota engines, but it is good to know that Toyota has finally owned up on that problem instead of the previous denial and blame.

    When the powers that be say it was a peak Torque event, slipping tires that suddenly catch, etc, you would be silly to think it happened as they were just cruising around parking lot. All I can say is your argument based on 3rd person testimony is, well, laughable. Ever play the telephone game? I am sure all parties involved are perfectly unbiased, too.

    Anyways I am glad you think that is such a big deal, but quite frankly, that is about the only thing you can say about the Ranger lately. Maybe it is time to bring up the locker debate again?
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    Why bring up the locker debate? Why don't we look into the Ranger problems forum instead?

    msg #488 sounds interesting: a whole range of problems, some of which tbunder has accused Toyota of having, like water in the cab. Well, there's an example of a Ranger with water in the cab. #492 is interesting too.....new trucks arent supposed to do that.

    Anyway, toyota.com is starting to list 2003 vehicles, Tundra is there already, although without any major updates (except an iForce supercharger available from TRD. Pricey, but very nice), and 4Runner/Tacoma ought to be up there soon. Then we'll start the whole thing again, this time with new Tacoma specs.
  • eagle63eagle63 Posts: 599
    we all know exactly what you and tbunder (Ok, mainly tbunder) would be saying if the almighty tacoma locker started crapping out - whether it was due to driver abuse or not. we wouldn't hear the end of it.
    Frankly, I really don't think the FX4 diff thing is all that big of a deal either, but don't act all surprised when Taco fans start poking fun at it.
  • I guess that is about the only thing scoprio can come up with lately, and it's old news to boot. Now I guess the Ranger Problem forum was the next thing he could find to keep up the momentum.... Maybe I should read through the Tacoma Problem thread, but what conclusive evidence does that prove?

    Ok, scoprio, you got us Ford Fans! And I thought water would never ever be found inside the cab of one of our trucks. We also believe that a motor mount would never be installed incorrectly or fail (492).

    Too bad Spoog isn't around anymore, he would at least find new material occasionally.
  • What the heck are all you people talking about. Don't you get sick of this rhetoric at some point? All this talk about sludged up engines, blown rear differentials, scratched up beds? You people need to get a new hobby. Who really cares. I think a Ranger is junk and you think a Toyota is junk. What's the difference as long as you are personally happy with your purchase. This web site is starting to really bore me (yawn!).

    Take care and I'll see you where only the loggers dare to tread..........Steelman.
This discussion has been closed.