Dodge Neon SRT-4

beanboy

That this subject isn't getting more posts. The SRT-4 is setting records on some of the automotive forums I visit from time to time.

I for one will have probably stepped up the chain in terms of refinement, but if the price is right and the power is as good as the initial test reports indicate... Might just take the plunge.

-B

hersbird

Well It's come down to this SRT-4 or a Hemi Ram 1500 series. Both can be had for under $20,000 although you gotta go with the ST trim on the Ram to keep it under $20,000. The Hemi Ram should run a 1/4 mile in mid 14's in 2wd regular cab form and the neon will be 1/2 sec quicker then that. The ram seats only 3 where the neon does 5. The ram can tow and haul stuff, the neon can haul something else. Personally I think the naturally aspirated Ram has more potential for upgrades down the line (Kenny belle already has a supercharger and intercooler that make 500hp on the hemi.) The again it's big v-8 gets weak gas mileage. The Ram will be easy to order at invoice with rebates (which pushes the price as low as $16,500) if the SRT-4 can't be bought at invoice with at least the farm rebate then I'll probably just go with the Ram. Still will wait until final details are determined and maybe drive both to make up my mind.

wale_bate1

Wow!

I have never heard of these two being cross-shopped, and wouldn't have believed it if someone had told me!

Do you have any curves to drive where you live, hersbird? That would make the difference to me, personally...;-) Then again, I have zero need or desire for a truck in the first place. Half-second quicker in the 1/4 mile without dumping a bucket of fuel each time sounds cool to me, but I have to admit that to me straight-line acceleration does not a winner make.

Other than the breather, the 2.4L is still stock. There's an awful lot of meaningful modding that could still be done for the price of forcing the intake on the Hemi.

All this is from a strictly car guy, though, so, grain of salt...

dsm6

I guess they both have their pros and cons. Personally, I like handling as much as I like straight line accel., and would weigh it higher than towing/hauling ability.

You make a good point about further upgrades, but - if you haven't already, you should check out the link above to the Mopar Stage I,II,III SRT-4 turbo upgrades. Stage III isn't street legal (you remove the cats), but Stage II is, and it bumps up output to 270/270 hp/ft-lbs.

hersbird

Well I own a truck right now, a Dakota R/T and evenin its pure stock state it will outhandle most stock cars out there. The first and only time I ever tried autocrossing, I beat a lightly modified Counture SVT that was a member of the local SCCA club for the last two years (he was a good driver, and had claen runs). I also beat (more like destroyed) a poorly driven 90's Mustang GT, and ran equal to a well driven older 911. The only other novice who was close was a turbo Saab and he beat me by 1/2 sec over a 1 1/2 minute run. I don't think the factory Ram will handle near as well as my Dakota but then again Hotchkis already has a full suspension (springs, shocks, and swaybars) kit for the new 2wd Rams. Personally I think the FWD srt-4 without a posi will be pretty difficult to drive in the autocross world, but maybe not. It would probably do pretty good in Montana winters with it's FWD though, my old 98 neon did.

hersbird

The dealer here said today he would take my money to put me on the list locally, he also said nobody else is on the SRT-4 list here so I'd be first. Tempting, but the guy didn't seem to be really on top how exactly the ordering and allowcation process will be. Basically I don't think anybody knows yet. Plus I want a invoice +$300 deal and at bare minimum the $500 farms rebate. He couldn't promise me any of those things on the SRT-4 yet. He did think they would be in the showroom in January which is good.

revdrluv

I guess those dodge guys are not used to the idea of a waiting list.

wale_bate1

Well, not for cars anyway...;-)

hersbird: If the thing whips up half the interest out there that I think it will, then the minimum ADM I would expect to see on these is about $3K. So take MSRP, add $3K to that, and for the first few months, that's what I expect to be the going rate. Once the summer is over, I would think the pace might fall off a bit, but rebates and incentives of any kind on this don't look to figure in until at least year two.

Then again, I'm not an automotive professional.

I just play one on TV (kidding)...:)

hersbird

Well depending on who can get the cars one of the nearby dealers here sells every Chrysler and GM product for a set amount over invoice. I think it's currently about $350 over invoice. That includes PT when they were first out, vipers, prowlers, whatever. So the SRT-4 will be the same. I have heard that dealers will have to send a technicition to a special school to qualify to sell SRT-4s and possibily that the dealer will also have to be a current '5-star' dealer. Hopefully if I choose the SRT-4 this dealer will be one to carry the srt-4 cause then I know I can get one for under $19,000.

hersbird

Well that dealr called me today and says it will bein the computer for ordering on Monday the 25th. We will see, there have been other false rumors like this in the past as well.

wale_bate1

If they'll really do that, and I'm even half-way right about demand, I'd say JUMP on it.

You could probably turn it around for profit!! ;-)

On that technician thing, all the service techs do training twice a year. That way the all get certified for everything in the pipeline. After four Chrysler-Dodge products (all good BTW), I can tell you the training doesn't help much. You still take everything back three times before they can figure out what's actually wrong!!

turbotunin

I have checked with 2 different Dodge dealerships here in Kansas City and neither one of them seemed to know what this car is. I tried to get on an ordering list today, but they said that it is not available yet. Anyone in or around KC know of a dealer that has heard of the SRT-4???!!!!???

jkstew1

hersbird where are these dealers located that you spoke of?

hersbird

www.usaautosales.com
they are in Kellog, Idaho of all places but do a ton of business over the phone. That town pretty much looks like one huge Dodge dealer! Seeing as how Dave Smith is a 3 hour drive, the closer dealers will almost always match Dave Smiths pricing. The PT initialy was an exception for the closer guys, and this neon may be the same, but Smith kept the $300 over invoice the whole time on PT's including the limited "Dream Crusiers". The dealers likely do have a clue about the srt-4 (heck it's been featured with a full road test in every major automotive publication) they just always are trained to sell what they have on the lot right this minute. I don't think that they did end up in the computer ordering system on Monday as told, they haven't tried calling me back at least! Remember that an invoice deal on a $20,000 car is only about a $1000 savings so don't shop 2000 miles away to save $700. Then again don't pay $3000 over MSRP as some folks have envisioned!

turbotunin

Thanks for the info hersbird. Will have to continue hounding my local dealers until they have a clue. Anyone get pricing info on the upgrade packages yet? I doubt they are out, but just thought I'd ask. BTW, just a noobie question but what is a "farms" rebate. I've heard this term before but I don't know what it is.

hersbird

http://www.montereycountyfarmbureau.org/dodge_rebate.htm

Our local farm bureau costs $40 a year to be an assiciate member (good enough for the $500 rebate, and other deals from other companies) and you only have to be a member for 30 days to qualify. You could order today, join the farm bureau today, and by the time the car came in you'd qualify for the $500 rebate. The Farm Bureau also uses the membership fees in many productive ways.

PS. The SRT-4 may not qualify as Dodge is technically not calling it a Neon. It's it's own new line. I realize it's really still a neon with upgrades, but Dodge may use that as an excuse to flake out on the extra $500 off!

yosito

My son has a 2001 R/T since last june with just 7000 miles on it, and the car suddenly began having problems.
You could drive the car and suddenly it was dead.
Yes no energy at all, after a couple of minutes the energy was back and several more times.
It visited the dealer SEVERAL times and the dealer changed the battery three times, I have to tell you that while performing several tests to the battery no faulty codes were observed, but since lately Chrysler is having trouble with batteries we decided to change it, but it wasn't the solution.
Well chrysler ASKED US FOR MORE TIME to repair the vehicle, (The car was back at the dealer since july, so until last week they kept asking us FOR MORE TIME!!!).
Well they finally decided to change the MAIN FUSE BOX with all the harness, they also replaced the starter and baterry harness plus the PCM, now the car is running with no problems, BUT I had to take it to ANOTHER DEALER, so they would place all the harnesses where they should be, put all the screws and clips, etc..etc... of which many were missing.
I hope the car will NOW work fine, because my son drives it a lot on the highway, and when it dies there is no power steering or brakes, and no energy at all!!
We know now this is not the first Neon with such a problem, but Chrysler service dept. Plus customer relations dept. at Chrysler STINK!!

the_big_h

your son's car is a regular Neon R/T, which is a completely different car than the new Neon SRT-4.

you probably want to post in the regular Dodge Neon board to vent your frustration.

yosito

Thanks, but anyway the SRT-4 is still a NEON, so potential cusomers should read this before.
And i´ll now paste this and post it in the Neon forum, thanks and take care.

redexpresso

It is NOT A NEON!! The only part this car has related in any form to a neon is the shell. So do your homework.

anonymousposts

It looks like a Neon on the inside and outside .. and everyone refers to it as the Neon SRT4. Hmmm...

redexpresso

Mr. Anonymous. Tell be what part does the SRT have from previous neons? This car was built by PVO. Same engineers that built the Viper, Prowler etc..

redexpresso

By the way chrysler said to everyone to stop calling it a Neon because it is not.

SPYDER98

These cars may share some of the same componets, but I dont think its fair labeling the SRT as just another neon. If thats the case, then I dont any reason not to call an M3, just another 3 series. A Mustang cobra, just another mustang. A lancer evolution, like any other lancer. The list goes on..
Come on, plenty of performance cars out there, also have base models at almost half the cost, or more in some cases.

sphinx99

The M3 *is* just another 3-series. A really fast, really good one, with a rather different driving experience, but it is a 3-series. Otherwise, it would be called the M8 or M13 and MM or something.

Likewise the SRT *is* another Neon. And like the M3, a problem in the base models could potentially manifest themselves in the M or SRT or whatever premium models. And more relevantly, the Neon SRT is going to be serviced by the same guys who service yosito's Neon R/T, and since his post is about service issues, it's probably worth bringing up. (Unless PVO is staffing Chrysler service centers with dedicated techs to work on SRTs and Vipers only...)

Not that any of this affects my interest in the SRT's ridiculous power at a cheap, cheap price. What are they going for anyway?

anonymousposts

SVT makes the Focus SVT, the Mustang SVT, and the Lightning .. they are modified but they are still Mustangs, Foci, and F150's.

Dodge may be trying to avoid the SRT being referred to as a Neon considering the lack of respect the Neon has in the automotive world but it still has the shell of a Neon. It may have a different engine, slightly different appearance, and a tuned suspension but so does the SI and it's still a Civic.

turbotunin

The main difference is that the SRT will be built on a seperate assembly line as the Neon, by a specialty team PVO, and there will only be about 5000 or so built this year as opposed to 200,000 regular neons (not sure about actual numbers). I think that each SRT assembled will receive more attention on the assembly line than the traditional vehicle. There are lots of cars that have problems that are considered "design flaws" that would not be an issue if they were assembled correctly. From what I was told from my local Dodge dealer is that each dealer will be sending at least 1 service tech to school to specifically learn the SRT-4. This should help with any service issues. This is a specialty vehicle, it's not "Just another Neon."

wale_bate1

"Dodge may be trying to avoid the SRT being referred to as a Neon considering the lack of respect the Neon has in the automotive world..."

Someone (who shall remain anonymous) really needs to get a better handle on what the automotive world really thinks of the Neon. Especially at the track. Maybe it ain't no holy grail, but guranteed ain't nobody laughing behind its back, nuther!

Damn good little design, easily manipulated and interpreted (a la PT), and easily maintained.

With regard to service technicians, the term is an oxymoron when applied to Dodge and Chrysler. Any issue usually requires three trips to the shop for a fix (the same is true of VW, except you have to double the number of visits)!

No reason to shine this apple; doesn't need it. This is a hot ticket in its own right. Mopar haters will go out of their way to dis it, just as they have the PT, which they have always labeled as "just a gussied up Neon".

Of course it is...
[-P

anonymousposts

The PT has less to do with the Neon than the SRT-4. For starters the PT has a rear axle.

hersbird

I was going to stay out as personally like the tag "just another neon" but... PT with a rear axle? Like as in awd or rwd? not even in the sense of I-beam rolling axle. The PT is FWD only just like the neon, and the rear suspension is different but there is no rear axle back there. The PT is neon based, always has been. The srt-4 is also neon based but both have many differences. It is assembled in a completely different plant by hand to the tuen of 3000-5000 a year (the manpower is available from the finished prowler production), unlike even the turbo PT which is a regular production line model. Still look back to 95 when the neon came out, what else was there that even came close to the neon's looks power and price, not to mention handling? It has had the bar rasied on it a few times, and it has worked to keep up. This time it is the SRT-4 that is raising the bar way up. You really have to step up in price to find something that even comes close to the performance of the SRT-4 which has now run under 14 sec 1/4 mile times in magazine testing (13.9 in Mopar Now).

dsm6

The bottom line questions I have are, and always will be, for this type of car: how does it handle, how does it accelerate, how does it brake, how well does it hold up (reliability, quality, etc.), how does it look, and how much does it cost?

If it holds up well to each of those questions (which remains to be seen for some of the questions, but it looks good so far for most), comments like "yeah, but it is still just a dressed up neon" sure come off sounding like a case of sour grapes.

"Yeah, but it still just blew your doors off."

On which side of that conversation would you rather be?

anonymousposts

there is an axle back there. (in regards to the PT Cruiser)

"Suspended with MacPherson struts up front and a unique twist-beam axle supported by coil springs and incorporating a Watt's linkage in back"

The SRT will be fast and yes it is way faster than my Civic BUT I care about more than going fast or I would drive a Camaro SS.

speeds2much

It's just amazing to me to read so many people blasting this great new car. Neons have an excellent track record on the SCCA circuit, they are used in basically stock form by Skip Barber Racing School, and then Chrysler decides to turbocharge it, give it a more-sophisticated suspension and race-worthy brakes (a package that basically replicates the performance of a Boxster S) for under $20,000 MSRP, and all many people can say is it's a stock Neon or it's gonna be marked up by dealers. Well, I'm laughing out loud! People like this are so brainwashed by America's brand marketers and are so afraid to think for themselves that they can't see a new classic car when it's staring them in the face. Amazing.

gee35coupe

Comes to mind. They were "collectors item" each one of them were numbered and everything. They are probably all collecting rust in various junkyards right now. Same formula as the SRT lotsa power cheap car. The only problem it had was that IT WAS STILL AN OMNI.

If fast was all it took to make a great car the Camaro would still be around. It is damn fast. And now it's damn dead.

SPYDER98

I think the SRT will be a great car for the money. I just have a hard time thinking about the 245 ft-lbs of torque driving those poor front wheels.
This car isn't exactly nose heavy like other domestics.

Any thoughts?

speeds2much

Comparing the SRT to the Shelby Omni GLH is ridiculous. Did the GLH have the same performance, including braking and handling, as sports cars costing 3x as much? Was it assembled by robots on a modern assembly line, and a dedicated line at that? Did it have the structural rigidity of a modern car? You are making my point: bashing the SRT is just an example of attaching your perception of brand identity to a great car. Too bad for you.

gee35coupe

But it was all those for it's time. Just like the SRT it's was just another cheap car with a lot of power. All in all it's still nothing but a Neon and will be scrap before 80,000 miles.

beanboy

Spoken like a true Honda owner, tehe.

Threads like this always seem to separate out the true automotive enthusiasts from the cars as a fashion accessory crowd.

-B

gee35coupe

The SRT. The truer colors are being shown by those that can't see this is still a Neon. Other than the go fast stuff it's all Neon. The wiper motor, the power windows, the body shell is the same as on the base trailer park Neon. Just like the GLH was an Omni with a very nice motor or the Buick Grand National was a Regal and the Syclone was an Sonoma pickup.

judas

"You really have to step up in price to find something that even comes close to the performance of the SRT-4 which has now run under 14 sec 1/4 mile times in magazine testing (13.9 in Mopar Now)."

Not really. Mustangs are quicker than that and don't cost that much more, plus they're driving the right wheels.

beanboy

Since this posting is in the Coupes, Convertibles & Sports Cars section, I guess the true Honda owners would stay away.

And I agree with you that it is still a Neon. Nothing wrong with that at all. Upgrades were smart as well, not just the motor. New tranny, revised suspension, driveshafts, brakes, steering, seats... DC upgraded where it mattered. Even the wing actually is supposed to help at high speeds. The wiper motor doesn't really do much for performance.

-B

gee35coupe

All you'll have left in a couple of years is a heap with no working accessories that goes fast. Oh boy. Just like the Buick Grand National, Syclone and Shelby turbo.

anonymousposts

The Neon is one of the least-respected cars out there and with the all the new turbo engine does it make it a fast least-respected car. Don't have to be a Honda owner to know that.

turbotunin

To my understanding manufacturers have a couple of cars that they reserve for auto-mag editors and such to test/review/beat the crap out of, and not ONE of the articles I have read says anything about having problems with the SRT. It is also my understanding that the auto-mag people generally push these vehicles to their limits repeatedly. So far the SRT seems to be reliable. It has a redeisgned engine built for turbo application, a VERY reliable Mitsu 16G turbo, a proper intercooler system and engine management designed and tweaked specifically for this car. Until the non-believers can prove that it is NOT reliable, I think we can assume it is.
oh,
and how do you see the Grand National and Syclone as fast POS?
Last I checked these vehicles are still bringing a premium price and are highly respected cars..

anonymousposts

Umm .. kinda hard to call a car reliable after a couple of tests that last approximately 1 day.

beanboy

Have to disagree with your comments about the rest of the Neon being crap.

gee35coupe

Or it wouldn't make for much of a debate would it?

beanboy

Is that what this is?

sturcla

I have a 1998 Neon Sport with DOHC engine (150 horse's), manual trans with 54,000 miles on it.

The car handles great, plenty of power, and have had no major repairs so far in five years of driving. It only cost me $12,000 several thousand less than comparable models by Honda, Toyoto which didn't have the power.

Yea, the early Neon's had head gasket problems, but many owner's were covered under warranty or traded them in before the next gasket repair.

The 2003 models have a 7 year, 70,000 mile warranty, which allows plenty of time to dump the car (SRT, et al version's of the Neon), if you ain't happy with it.

BMW's (3 series) don't have the power of the SRT, and cost $ 9 thousand more; ditto, for gobs more Euro cars that also have poor reliabilty ratings (i.e. Audi TT).

Many who bash the Neon never owned one, and read auto magazines that have a habit of dumping on American cars, while praising the [non-permissible content removed]'s and German's.

The SRT is for people who have a beer budget, and can't afford the expensive wine's.

gee35coupe

problems. Check the Neon board. Or Consumer Reports. Or a google search.