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Volkswagen TDI Models

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Comments

  • I thank you for the advice. I wish I could put a 500 gal. tank at my house. I do not own the land or the house. I am a pastor, and the house has been donated to the church. So, I have no choice but try to find a good premium diesel dealer. I will look. Maybe I can get a few diesel containers and fill them up and keep them at my house instead. Not sure. Maybe I can get a smaller tank-possibly 250 gallons. I will look at options.

    All I know is that these cars run best the higher the cetane level in the fuel. And I would pay the difference.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,165
    Well Pastor/Spiritualquest, while you didn't mention your residing state, I have a 49/50 chance in guessing you are using a 40 CZ cetane #2 diesel fuel.

    The 2003 VW Jetta TDI technical data specifies the TDI or AHL engine at 49 CZ cetane.

    First of all, diesel #2 fuel is legally mandated to be delivered at the pump with a min of 40 CZ cetane rating in 49/50 states. Given fungibility issues, it would almost be RARE to find a distributor that somehow delivered better than that.

    CA diesel #2 diesel is legally mandated to be delivered at the pump with a min of 45 CZ cetane.

    So for better or worse in 49/50 states 40 CZ cetane is probably as good as it gets. In fact, to boost the cetane can be done easily with the cetane boosting product of your choice. (P/S can do a 3 and 6 point boost (cost: 3 cents per gal and 6 cents per gal respectively) depending on self administered dilution). So by using cetane booster you are already doing the correct "corrective" action. So if you see a supplier vendor that offers 43 and or 46 CZ at the price of 3/6 cents or less, they are doing it cheaper than DIY, and it would make economic sense. If not, DIY, which I got from your post, you are already doing.

    The official VW OEM position is: there is no requirement to run fuel additives.
  • I was looking for some advice with regard to what a fair (ballpark) price is for a 2000 Jetta, TDI, 45,000 miles, GL version (manual windows, no sunroof, basic stereo/cassette, cloth interior, 5spd manual). Dealer is asking $16K. I was also concerned about the timing belt issue; i.e. does the 2000 model have the 50K mile belt? What do the 2003 models sell for?
  • Yes, I am from Iowa, and I think your are right about the rating for the fuel. I will take your advice. I wonder. What is the cetane rating for biodiesel? Would a good biodiesel blend be a good alternative during the summer A little too rich for my blood, but I would consider the cost. Nice to know someone knows something about this fuel. I wish they were more regulated and posted.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,165
    We have a few truck stops that offer biodiesel but when #2 was 1.79 and biodiesel was like 2.67?-2.99, I didn't even have to lie down till the thought went away!?

    Current corner store #2 diesel is 1.64. On interstates or major truck highways it is app 1.39. Again CA #2 diesel @ 45 CZ cetane.

    About 2 mo ago on the eastern seaboard (RI) #2 diesel corner store was 1.99.
  • vzh9p7vzh9p7 Posts: 24
    Ruking, here in Michigan, I'm currently paying about $1.30-1.40 for regular diesel. The prices have a tendency to go down here in the summer, as I believe the blends change (no low-temperature stuff), while the gas prices go up. It is kind of ironic...right now there's a 30 cent difference between diesel and gas. In winter, basically the opposite happens; gas prices tend to go down, while diesel goes up. But there's still a .15 difference (diesel being cheaper). There are a couple places in the area (e.g., within 60 miles or so), that sell bio- fuels...just none real close.

    Bellaisola, I looked high and low for a used TDI when I bought mine; and really came up with only two or three. I believe one was a 2001, auto, with 70K miles they were asking 10K for...the other was a 2000, 5-speed, 98000 miles for I think 8K (it has been a while). The price you have seems kind of high...All together (with tax, title, prep, etc.), I paid about 19K out the door for my new (2003) 5-speed...and it has more "stuff" than the older models.

    By the way, Ruking....thanks for all the help and advice...it is greatly appreciated.

    Jason
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    That seems like a fairly high price based on what I've seen around. (for sale forums, ebay, etc). I've been paying attention because I may be selling/trading mine in the near future to get a Passat TDI when they become available. I have a '00 GLS with 68k miles, cloth, power everything, alloys, cd changer, and a few power enhancements. Based on what I've seen I would likely get $11,000 for mine. A base model with only 23k less miles for $5,000 more seems a bit out of hand. I've watched a couple low mileage '02 GLS models sell for $18,000. Keep shopping. I can give you a couple excellent sources for finding nice used TDI's if you'd like to email me. Sebring95@excite.com

    AS for the timing belt, if it's an automatic, the '00 would have a 40k mile timing belt. If it's not been changed, that can be expensive (and down right fraud by some dealers). A five-speed is good for 80k miles.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Posts: 1,978
    ould someone tell me what thier manual actually says.

    The VW service Manager said sysnthetic oil every 5,000 miles and a timing belt change every 40000 miles.

    However, I have heard from others first oil change at 5,000 then every 10,000 miles and timing belt at 100,000

    What does the manual say ?
  • chmeeeechmeeee Posts: 327
    For the 2k3, every 80,000 for the t-belt, and oil changes at 5k, 10k, 20k, 30k.... etc. The dealer just wants your money real bad. ;-)
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    The manual states 80K for timing belt change on 2002 TDI and it was revised for 2003 to 100K miles. This applies to both manual and auto transmissions.
  • vzh9p7vzh9p7 Posts: 24
    Ruking....got my MityVac 7200 oil changing machine today...too cool! Very nicely made; can't wait to actually change the oil. However, do you clean this thing out when you're done? Although I'm not expecting to see as much sludge and gunk, I've noticed, over the years, how "gummy" the regular oil pans get. If you clean it, how? Thinner or something? Or do you just not worry about it. It wasn't terribly expensive...but I like to take care of things.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,165
    I called mity vac's technical? or customer service? The person did mention that mineral spirits would work.

    Thinking back about it, it would seem to me a product like simple green would work just as well. I have never had a problem with simple green on plastic or silicon seals.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Posts: 4,085
    If you use any of the 3 lubricants that are available in North America, there will be no "gunk" buildup in the oilpan.

    Oils that meet the VW spec for the TDI will not "gunk" like dino-oils will.

    only SAE 5W-40 should be used.... you choose which one;
    Mobil Delavac1
    Shell Rotella synthetic
    dealer-supplied Castrol SYNTEC

    If you are concerned about leaving metal shavings and other nasties in the pan.... YES! you will be doing that by using a sucker to remove the oil from the dipstick tube.

    Removing the drainplug on a level surface allowing plenty of time for drippage is most effective at removing all of the nasties from the pan. Allowing 20-30 minutes of draintime is not uncommon. (ALWAYS DRAIN OIL FROM A HOT ENGINE TO GET ALL OF THE NASTIES IN SUSPENSION!!)
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,165
    We in the TDI community have an interesting anomoly when it comes to oil drainage and oil dipstick measurement.

    I have two Landcruisers, that as soon as you turn off the ignition and raise the hood (1-2 min max) you can wipe the dipstick, reinsert and pull out again for an accurate measure. max/add, middle area, you are OK! and the difference between max and add is ta dah: 1 quart!! You can also take this measurement overnight and it is still the same. Not exactly rocket science and pretty clear!

    On my other two vehicles, Corvette Z06 and the VW Jetta TDI seem to want to elevate this TO rocket science !!!

    If you have read the oil level measuring procedure, for both vehicles you will know over time you can get different measures!!??? But the OEM does not give you a range of time!! The most germane point for the hot oil extraction in the TDI, is that of you let the car cool for say an hour or more you are actually draining from a larger pool!!! And if you let it drain longer, even more also. So in fact if you drain it while it is hot you are actually leaving a lot of oil in the vehicle which negates all the "nastys" being held in suspension. (in the TDI, overnight as much as 1/2 quart)
    The owners manual for the TDI says specifically not to take an overnight reading because it will not be "accurate". By process of elimination, this means that MORE oil will hit the gravity sump rendering the measurement "overfilled"
  • vwinvavwinva Posts: 71
    Just bought a 2002 Jetta TDI GLS automatic. Since I am pumping 500+ miles/week I am looking for ideas to boost the MPG. 80% Interstate, 20% local. Have been looking at chips, boxes, K&N filters, cetane boosters. Would like to know from those who have already used any/all of these what worked, what didn't and what the pitfalls are.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Posts: 4,085
    (vwinva) Cetane improvers help improve MPG, reduce smoking, and run quieter.... up to a point.

    For fuels available in NorthAmerica.... a cetane booster will help. (except perhaps in Texas, where I understand that the cetane at the pumps is higher by law.)

    FWIW... Since briand new, My TDI has been getting between 4-6 oz of the GREY BOTTLE (PowerService Diesel Kleen + Cetane boost)avaialable at wallmart. (the WHITE BOTTLE is for winter use.)
  • rpkvjkrpkvjk Posts: 2
    What is the relationship between horsepower and torque? I've read in previous posts that you need to shift within the torque band to achieve maximum acceleration with the TDI. If acceleration is based on torque then what difference does horsepower make?
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Posts: 4,085
    (rpkvjk)The "relationship" that you ask about is a simple equation.

                Horsepower * 5252
    Torque = -----------------
                     RPM

    TORQUE is the actual measurement that is take from an engine or the drive wheels. The HORSEPOWER is derived by applying the above formula.

     Instead of suggesting that you take a basic physics course or ask any HighSchool kid ;-) ... I am providing the following link that explains it all.

    http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/torqueHP.htm
  • rpkvjkrpkvjk Posts: 2
    (bpeebles) Thanks for the link. It was very helpful.
  • Simply put, Torque is the FORCE, whereas HP is power or resultant work applied.
    On your electrical bill, you pay for power.
    But if you want to do things with electricity you need Voltage. The power is in KiloWatts.
    1 HP = around 720 watts, or 0.72 KiloWatts..

    If you understand electricity, then the analogy is that TORQUE == VOLTAGE, RPM == CURRENT, and HP == KiloWatts

    Computationally, F=mA (force = mass x acceleration).
    Thus, acceleration = FORCE over MASS. and the force comes from the TORQUE at the drive wheel divided by the RADIUS of the drive wheel (with the radius of the wheel being the length of the LEVER technically)

    POWER = TORQUE X REVS (times a constant)
    Power measures how rapidly you are transfering energy.

    Larger engines (and European engines) develop power with high torque at mid-speed or lower.
    Smaller engines (especially Japanese) develop power with LOW TORQUE at HIGH REVs. In theory, this is the same power, except you can't use it.
    The problem is that you hit peak power at the red-line, and then have to shift, dropping revs below the high torque and power speed.

    That's why the high performance Civic, rated at higher power, is not as fast at 0-60 MPH as a 1.8T VW Golf, even though the Golf weighs a couple of hundred pounds more.

    German cars make power at useful revs compared to Japanese cars, and that's why 200 German HP are worth about 300 Japanese HP in the real world.
    (here come the flames already)
  • As a real world example, I've raced MANY riced-up Japanese cars off the lights, and other than one particular modified 4WD Mitsubishi flame-breather I have ALWAYS beat them to the other cross-walk ... in my 90 HP Beetle TDI. (you have to get the revs/throttle just right to avoid melting the tires or launching with no boost ... and sticky Yokohamas help compared to the stock Michelins).

    Now, once across the intersection, its another story. I have to shift into second, and the rice-burner is just hitting its power band. Fortunately for me most of these incidents occurred in Seattle/Redmond where there was always major traffic preventing you from going far anyway.

    But the point is that 155+ Ft.Lbs of torque at 1900 revs gives a lot more torque to the wheels at low speed to launch your car.
    (NOTE: at 150,000 kms I had to have the STRETCHED BOLTS on the front motor mount replaced ... one was broken, the other two were stretched out)
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,165
    It just kills me that VW has a V10 diesel 300 something hp and 500 something # ft of torque!! AW AW AW !!!
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Yeah, I don't really get that though. My Cummins Ram has 305hp and 555lb-ft out of a 6-cylinder.

    I'm not sure why VW needed a V10 for that output. Unless they're putting a gas engine powerband to it so it drives more like a car engine.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,165
    That would be my guess also. The Cummins RAM is probably a SUPER tow mule and almost can darn near pull a tree stump out of the ground :) I am thinking a cross 4 door sedan/suv/sav/whatever probably has not as much requirement for that.
  • chmeeeechmeeee Posts: 327
    The Toureg does have a pretty good towing capacity though, 7700 lbs.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,165
    #711

    For sure 7700#'s is NOTHING to sneeze at!
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Posts: 4,085
    The towing capacity of a vehicle is based more on the WEIGHT and "heavy dutyness" of the pulling vehicle... not its POWER.

    The pulling vehicle should weight signigicantly more than the deadweight being pulled. This is a safety factor that should not be ignored.

    That 6 cylinder Cummins RAM can pull a BULLDOZER on a tripple-axle trailer uphill. I would not try that with a Toureg even if it HAD the V10.

    More cylinders generally make for a SMOOTHER engine due to the lower mass of the smaller pistons flapping around. Also due to more power pulses per rotation of the crankshaft.
  • roweerowee Posts: 21
    great effect-small consumption: 128KW(174bhp) max.torqe of 400Newton meters;189kph top speed;12.4 seconds to 100kph.
    However, my N.American friends, this T-reg version(with 17" alloy and235/65,only!!)will not be sold in your part of the world. But stay calm; we here pay for the R5 TDI almost as much as you will
    pay for its larger brother V-10.
  • Its simple economics. All VW engines share the same parts. In fact, VW is the only manufacturer I know of using diesel blocks for gas engines. (that's why the little 1.8t in rally form puts out 368 HP with stock pistons, crank, block, etc. and its totally reliable)

    So, back to the cylinders. ALL new-design VW/Audi engines are 1/2 liter per cylinder giving:
    3 cyl. 1.5 liters (future Lupo, etc)
    4 cyl. 2 liter GAS: Beetle, Golf, Jetta
    4 cyl. 2 liter DIESEL: Passat, future Golf, Jetta
    5 cyl. 2.5 L GAS (V5): Passat, A4, A6 (in Europe only)
    5 cyl. 2.5 L GAS (straight): VW trucks, vans,
    5 cyl. 2.5 L DSL (straight): T-reg, VW trucks & vans
    6 cyl. 3 L GAS (V6): A4, A6, A8, T-Reg, future Passat,
                       future Jetta, Golf, etc.
    6 cyl. 3 L DSL (V6): Passat, A6, future Jetta... (Europe)
    8 cyl. 4 L GAS (W8): Passat W8
    8 cyl. 4 L GAS (V8): Audi, T-Reg, Phaseton
    8 cyl. 4 L DSL (V8): A8, future Passat
    10 cyl. 5 L DSL (V10): Phaeton, T-reg, and that
             pickup shown in Detroit 3 years back
    12 cyl. 6 L GAS (V12): Audi A8, Bugatti, Phaeton?
    16 cyl. 8 L GAS (W16): Bugatti Veyron

    And the cool part is, they are ALL sharing pistons, connecting rods, valves, etc.
    That's the only way to keep costs down and give the variety.

    Speaking of variety, compare engine choices between an Accord and a Jetta:
    Accord has 4-cyl gas, V6 gas [2 choices].
    VW Jetta has 2L 4c gas, 1.8L 4c turbo gas, 170 HP V6 gas, 201 HP V6 gas, 1.9L 4c DSL [5 choices] just in North America. In Europe, add smaller 4c gas, V5 gas, etc... and a few years ago Accord had only one engine!

    VWs "Platform sharing" is going very modular, and gives great "mix and match" flexibility. Plus, mechanics are more expert as soon all engines will be variations of a single design!

    PS: For you Cummins fans, VWs heavy trucks and busses are powered by Cummins diesels.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    thanks, good info.

    FWIW, I'd be more interested in a Toureg with a more reasonable sticker price and a 2.5 diesel. I don't see a need for 500lb-ft in an SUV and certainly not necessary to move it's 7500# tow limit. My Cummins with similar output (in a much heavier chassis) moves a 7500# trailer as if it was a bad joke.
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