Experience with e-mail only negotiations?

masspector

I think negotiating by email is ok. it worked for me the last car I bought. I do not feel that a dealer can be too unscrupulous if you have a printed email with a price and their email address on it. The face to face is a waste of time, to me. I would hate to waste two hours of my time and the salesmans at three or four delaeships. You are right you might miss a deal at a dealership that does not do net very well, but thats probably not the kind of dealership i want to use anyway. Forward thinking dealers are using the net successfully. If they have an aggressive internet dept, they probably have aggressive prices to go along with it. At least that was the case that i ran into on my last car buy.

hingram

I doubt you'll ever do better than face-to-face on price. You might but it is rare. Some of that is because dealers aren't sure if you are just fishing for a price to take to another dealer. I would be greatly surprised if they give you their best deal in writing with assurance that you are buying.

I may be wrong, of course. But I would hate to pass up a deal. I always call and get some feel about how much they can deal on a given set of cars. If I think we can dance, I go face-to-face. I like the face-to-face though. My dad was a car dealer as was his dad. It's like going home in a weird kind of way.

raybear

When I get an email I hit'em hard and fast; I may not have a second chance to get the customer's attention. I also limit my offer and ask for a deposit to secure the car at the price quoted. I don't negotiate from there, the price is the price and that's it.

hingram

That's a good strategy with a new car but dealerships have a lot more room on used cars (depending on the price of the car). Everyone in the room should know rather quickly if the parties are too far apart. But they rarely let you walk if you are close.

For instance, I got an email from a dealer offering to sell me a 2000 Outback Wagon for $15. Shoot, I can get a new one with rebate for a little over $20. I don't think that is their best deal.

raybear

The difference in price/cost on new vs. used Outbacks is pretty tight. For example, I have a 2000 Outback that cost us $12,850 before we have to do anything to it, and a 2003 used that's $17,250. Now you have to assume something has to be made profit-wise and we need a cusion against problems that may bring the car back to the shop. What is a fair markup on these cars?

Meanwhile a new 2004 has an invoice of $23,044 and a $1000 rebate. Holdback is $730. I can advertise such a car as $21,314 if I want a loss-leader with the only "profit" coming from our conveyance fee.

This means I'm likely to have just $2000 difference from new to used. As a salesman I have to get the customer focused on what they came in for, a used car or a new, preferably for more than the numbers I gave here!

steine13

Indeed. Subarus are pretty 'spensive on the used side, so much so that I've pretty much written them off.

I'd really like one as my winter beater/snow car, what with the awd and all, and a well-used one would make a lot more sense than some $20-24k sled where I'm going to worry about every ding and scratch. I don't LIKE driving new cars.

There's two things about Subies that are particularly heinous: (i) the yahoos that buy 'em, esp. the 5sp Legacy wagon, are often non-car types that wring 'em out until they're good and done. I checked out a hi-mileage '95 last year that was running on 3 cylinders and was still worth approx. $1k wholesale. Dog smell, ripped seat, and all. People will NOT let go of their old Subies, it's really aggravating...

And (ii) a 100k Legacy simply is NOT the same thing as a 100k 4cyl Camry. Two heads, has a t-belt, complex drivetrain with 10 or so c.v. joints and boots; aftermarket not as developed as the million-sellers... Nothing wrong with Subarus, but the higher maint. cost for an older one combined with slow depreciation make these cars poor candidates to buy used, IMO. Time to start putting $$ on the Subaru credit card...

Still and all, most mornings I check the classifieds to find my car..."1998 Legacy wagon, 5sp 90k all maintenance records, non-smoker, $6,000 obo"
Yeah right.

-Mathias

raybear

Had a couple cash in $2,386 in Subaru Card bonus yesterday, it's a good deal if you use it often and just pay off the balance every month.

You're right about the old Subie owners; some of the new guys here are assigned cold-call duty to high mileage service customers.

It goes something like this:

"Hello Mr. Jones, I see from our records that your 1992 Loyale has 174,000 miles on it; perhaps you'd be interested in seeing something newere and trading yours in?"

"Sorry, the car runs just fine! I'm keeping it until it dies." End of conversation.

Then, when the car is on it's deathbed, you'll see them advertised for $1500-and someone buys it!

odd1

automan227

I have done 3 deals by net, 2 for me and one for my parents.

The first one was on a 2002 Taurus SES with Leather, Power Pedals, ABS and the Vulcan engine. Dealership emailed me back with a quote of $216 including tax with $3k due at signing (in addtion to the rebate they would have used on the downpayment)for 36 months. Well my parents still had two months left of payments on their current car, but were looking just to see what was around. After lots of emails back and forth, we ended up negotiating a total of $100 out of pocket with around $500 due at signing, plus they got part of the rebate back in a check. Final price was $260.50/36 months. Great dealership, just lots of emails.

Next I negotiated our deal on our 2002 Ford Excursion Limited Diesel, with all options except captains chairs and the entertainment center. MSRP was just about $50k. Dealership orginally wanted $42,600 including a $2k rebate. By the time all was said and done we had it for $40,000 including the rebate. Took a few emails to get to that price.

Finally, I just negotiated our price on a used 2001 Taurus SEL with all the options on it. They were asking $11,995 including a Quality Checked Warranty. I was able to get it for $10k including them throwing in a spoiler and transmission fluid change. Took 2 emails and one phone call, and when we went to the dealer I drove it, told them to detail it and I'd be back to sign the papers in a couple days. Great experience, no hassel.

To me, internet is the only way to go, because I don't have to take important time out of my day to sit in a dealership. This way, I can do the emails from work in 30 second spurts, and not lose 5 hours down the drain.

AS

fjm11516

I just neg. a 2004 Honda Odyssey EXL for $25,000 ($26,600 out the door). Invoice is $25,632 TMV is $26,012.

Remember TMV is what OTHERS are paying. IF you are using email and are strong and smart about it then you are BETTER than everyone else.

$632 BELOW INVOICE plus 2 years of free oil changes.

Oh yah and NEVER negotiate with a trade in. It will cost you every time. Sell it to Carmax or an independent dealer.

If someone asks you what you want your payments to be then RUN.

stickguy

Many people are payment buyers, so it is a natural question (and profitable for the dealer). If you are to sophisticated for that technique, simple say you aren't concerned with financing right now, and just want to settle on a price first. No need to make it adversarial and run out.

As to trades, same deal. settle on the details of the new car, and then get a trade value, which should be a "true" number, since they won't be inflating the trade value and making it up on the new car. But, in the end, the only difference is the difference (to quote the Oracle of TH).

Besides, why do you think Carmax or an indy dealer can (will) pay significantly more for a used car than the new car dealer will, and stay in business?

Finally, in many states (including mine) you get a tax credit for the trade in value, so you have to get at least that much more from an outside source just to break even.

stickguy

Post it in real world trade in values. You might get quicker response.

cadillacmike

With new you can shop cars and options, and prices as commodities, but with used, the best use I find for the internet is what is out there at both new car dealers and independents, and their ballpark asking price. That said, I did considerable research, 2-3 months, before buying my last car. I knew the salesman at my local dealer and took a few test drives on cars there, to get a feel, but did most of my research on the 'net. I finally got settled into a model and year, and found out that the "internet price" for a used car is NOT the "final" price. After searching and narrowing down to 3 vehicles, I was able to get one at over $1,500 lower than the internet "best" price while only 500.00 lower for one of my alternatives. Then after considering differences in mileage and equipment (this is the eternal problem with used car purchasing) I determined that the slightly higher mileage but better equipped car (NAV system) for over 1,000 less was the better buy. the kicker: it was my original dealer that had the best priced car. I had all kinds of lack of information including info from the Edmunds traderonline site (not your fault), mainly a loooooong list of "options" that were really all standard equipment on the cars I was considering. I mean every listing went like this: leather seats, auto trans. air conditioning, 4 wheel disc brakes, alloy wheels, etc, etc, etc, but all this was STANDARD on the car, the 3 or 4 real options Sunroof, Bose audio system, Sport package, Chrome wheels were almost NEVER mentioned in the listings. So I laboriously filled out inquiries, I'm still waiting on some responses a week after buying.

Bottom line: the internet can be a really useful tool, but but it's not the be all end all revolution in car buying, at least not for used cars.

jezebel

This whole online car-buying phenomenon seems like perfection to me, but it seems to me like the whole Canadian market is so far out of the online loop.

Edmunds doesn't list Canadian invoice prices. Is there anywhere else online that these can be found?

While the buying online article on this site talks about Internet car salespeople, it does little to tell you how to find dealers that offer this opportunity. Are there particular dealerships that actually have the resources devoted to this strategy? Or do I just fire off emails to sales managers (or salespeople?) and hope for a response?

flajohn

I AM GETTING READY TO PURCHASE A TOYOTA SOLARA AND THOUGHT USING THE INTERNET WOULD NARROW DOWN TO TWO OR THREE DEALERS. IS THIS A GOOD WAY TO GO? FLAJOHN

mirth

...to try it. What do you lose? However, when you send your email don't send it in all caps - it looks like you're shouting.

adam_madison

Hi,
I just went to a dealer today, Bergstrom-Honda of Oshkosh WI, and they said that when they used Edmund's VIN lookup service (not carfax's) for appraisal they encountered problems with my title. They claimed that Edmunds's service reported that I did not have a clean title. The term the dealer used was that my VIN did not "explode" (with vehicle history records) upon entering it into Edmunds.com vehicle appraisal service. The dealer said that if I could reconcile this title problem, they would be more than happy to take the trade. The dealer seemed a bit perturbed that I was trying to trade-in a vehicle with such a "shady" title. Imagine my surprise!! I bought this vehicle from a reputable dealer. I did not know edmunds.com did a title lookup or vin appraisal, but when I purchased the vehicle it was given a clean title by the dealership and carfax.

I am speaking to the dealership that sold me the vehicle. I will also be consulting carfax to verify my records and correct any problems.

The dealer said that the "red flags" came from Edmund's service. How can I proceed with Edmunds.com in repairing my vehicle's title record? Is this dealer putting me on?

Regards,
Adam Bayliss
Madison, WI

UPDATE:

The car dealer (Bergstrom Honda of Oshkosh Wisconsin) made up the story. My title is completely sound. Everything checks out. The dealer simply did not want to honor the deal we made prior to me treking up to northern Wisconsin. Is the deal we made in email binding in any way? I gave the dealer every chance to back out before I got up there and he didn't. Only when we were on the lot did he make up this song and dance about title problems. Do I have any recourse? What would you do?

Adam

kyfdx

"Do I have any recourse? What would you do?"

Let it go, and find another dealer... As you've observed, this dealer doesn't want to honor his e-mail price.. You can't make him do it.. It will just be an exercise in frustration, and you'll never be able to trust that dealer throughout the entire process.. not worth it..

regards,
kyfdx

raybear

Did you have a purchase order already filled out and signed? A quick note to the BBB may get their attention in addition to any damage you may have done here.

nynewcar

I used the "get a free quote" feature at this site as well as at kbb.com, and contacted about 12-15 dealers. We don't have any preference for a specific brand, will take the best deal from among four different cars we're looking at.

Only one dealer responded with an actual quote. Another sent a link to an "insta-quote" feature at their site. The rest just spammed me, basically. An endless stream of messages with the bottom line being - "come into the dealership."

Is one reply out of 12-15 requests about average in this scenario? I understand that their interest is getting me to come in, and I will go in at some point, but not to the ones who are lying to me from the get-go. They signed up at those sites promising to send email quotes but all they're doing is spamming me. What makes them think that's the way to start a beautiful friendship?

So far, the most useful aspect of this experience has been to learn which dealerships to avoid. Thankfully I live in a large urban area and there's plenty of choice.

I will be going in to that one, lone dealer who gave me a no-nonsense matter-of-fact response, just because he kept his promise. If I still have a positive impression, he will even get my business.

Are there any tips you can give me to extract actual emailed quotes from any of the others?

audia8q

Is one reply out of 12-15 requests about average in this scenario?

I'm not surprised. Many dealers don't consider you a serious buyer. The guy walking in the front door of the dealership ready to buy a car is getting all the attention...the guy who wants 12-15 quotes via email isnt a high priority for many dealers...

rroyce10

.... Let's turn the tables for a minute ..

And the dealer see's:

** An endless stream of messages with the bottom line being - "give me a price.." ...**

It's kinda different now, isn't it ...?

The dealer will get serious when you get serious ...



Terry. :shades:

nynewcar

I think it's valid to actually expect to receive a quote.

These dealers signed up to be featured in those sections. At edmunds.com it says “Get multiple free price quotes from local dealers in your area by using the form below” and at kbb.com it says “In three easy steps, get quotes from multiple dealers. It’s fast, free, and with no-obligation. Give yourself the advantage by getting the best price without leaving your home or office.”

Thus, with all due respect, I believe that it is valid to expect a relevant response even if I send out “multiple requests.” Notwithstanding, I realized that not all the dealers would respond with a quote as they promised. I was just wondering if one serious response out of 12-15 requests was about average.

I should also add that I sent follow-up notes to all of these dealers, with more details about what I wanted – the model and options, our timeframe, how we plan to pay. Such a reminder note was what finally got me that one serious response. The rest continued to bombard me with spam, and some of them even sent me “satisfaction surveys,” which would be funny if I were looking for a comic interlude.

I appreciate that dealers are inundated with requests like mine all day long – but if they know very well that they have no intention of actually providing a quote by email, then signing up to be featured in a “get a free quote online” section is exactly the kind of underhanded no-holds-barred manipulative tactic that gives car salespersons their infamous reputation. In retrospect, it is proving useful if only to help me know which dealerships to avoid.

The fact is that I am serious. We will buy within the next couple of weeks. I wanted to get the process started online because it makes sense to me for a lot of reasons. But at this point, it looks like for me, “online shopping” for a car is nothing more than wishful thinking. I would be happy to hear from anyone who has had any success eliciting quotes online, if you could let me know how you did it.

nortsr1

I have found that by going to the manufacturer website, clicking on your area zip code, reveals all the nearby dealers and you can also get the up-to-date inventory for a particular make, model and style that you are looking for.
After finding what I am looking for, I then use their Email quote system. When the dealer then emails me (sometimes without a price, sometimes with a price)I then reply directly to the dealerships that interest me (via Email) and I tell them exactly what I want, color, options, etc. and I have almost always received an offer from those dealers.
I even quote them the MSRP and Invoice price and known rebates and incentives for that model and I have almost always received an up front offer. Of course, if you have a trade-in...that's a horse of a different color!

sgtslate

I have had pretty much the same results. I have emailed about 10 dealers. Maybe 1 or 2 gave me a quote. The others want you to call or come in. When you call they give you a run around. Even if you do get a quote, it is usually high or close to MSRP. The whole process of buying a car sickens me. Playing the games gets tired real quick. I guess you can always make it fun by playing the same kind of games against the dealer.

bobst

"I would be happy to hear from anyone who has had any success eliciting quotes online, if you could let me know how you did it."

We sent emails to about 5 local Honda dealers and told them EXACTLY what kind of car we wanted to buy. I guess they thought we were serious. We got 3 quotes.

british_rover

Thats the catch you said exactly what kind of car you were looking for.

Most of the time the requests we get look like this.

Name: Bob Bob (Many timpes people put their first name twice)
Address: none (which is fine I don't mind if that is blank)
phone number: none (Really need to give a phone number)

Vehicle interested in

year: 2005
Make: Range Rover(The make is always Land Rover)
Model Range Rover Sport(The range Rover sport was not made in 2005)

Color: none listed
interior color: none listed
options wanted: none listed

Additional comments: this is normaly blank but the more interesting ones I have seen are:

Comments:
IF YOU CAN GIVE ME KBB PRIVATE PARTY VALUE FOR MY 2002 JAGUAR XK8 WITH 55,000 MILES I WILL COME BY THE CAR TODAY.

Too bad he never told me what car he wanted in the first place and when I emailed asking him for more information he refused to give me any or even come down without me giving him a value for his Jag.

Comments: Yeah could you send me the maitaince schadule for a 2001 Range Rover. I just bought one and there was no owners manual thanx.

Spelling mistakes and all included and he actually filled in all of the information on the top so he seemed serious at first.

Comments: Why doesn't Land Rover offer 22 inch dubs like the slade? I also want a chrome exterior option and my payments need to be 799 a month.

:sick: You can't even lease a loaded LR3 for 799 a month without a ton of cash down.

nynewcar

Thank you all who have responded with your good advice and suggestions, or even just sharing your experiences. Good to know how others in the same boat are doing.

Meantime, things are starting to move in a positive direction. Following the reminder notes - in which I detailed exactly what we were looking for, when we plan to buy, and how we plan to pay - I began getting a trickle of serious responses, and I will be going to those dealerships starting tomorrow. For now, I have about 7 or 8 quotes in response to the approx 15 requests I sent, so I'm feeling a bit more encouraged about it.

I know the rest of the process won't be easy but knowing what their offering price is when I walk in the door puts me a bit more at ease.

I don't fault the dealers - in general - for using the most assertive sales tactics they know, and I appreciate that it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff with the masses of online quote requests they must be receiving, but I think they still need to refine their strategies for attracting customers who are first contacting them online. For me at least, shouting in my face (or the email equivalent) while ignoring my question does not inspire confidence - especially when they expressly invited me to ask for a quote online to begin with.

nynewcar

That's a valid point, I think, but it sounds like there's a disconnect between the people asking for quotes and the dealerships. Are you aware that the "get a quote" feature requires us to fill in the exact details of the car we're interested in? I went through several screens to provide info before the requests were sent off to the dealerships. I don't mind repeating the details, but you can't say that the dealerships don't know exactly what I was looking for.

I guess it was the reminder notes I sent that made the dealers give me the benefit of the doubt as to whether I warranted a serious reply - but I only sent them on intuition and because I am a stubborn, persistent mule, and their canned initial responses to the first request irritated me. Nothing about the spam they sent in reply led me to expect that even a reminder would make them take me seriously. Apparently, though, the reminders worked, at least in some cases.

Like I said - I think the dealers are still on a learning curve, or so I hope, as to how to handle customers who first approach them online.

rroyce10

.. **Like I said - I think the dealers are still on a learning curve, or so I hope, as to how to handle customers who first approach them online....**
=========================

Let me bring you into the year 2006 .....

Back in 00/01 when online purchasing started to get it's wings .. dealers thought it was the greatest thing invented since milk - big volume buyers with low volume cost and they thought it was like winning the lottery and the best salesperson fought for the job (not anymore) .. -- but that's all changed because of people like yourself.

To bring us current .... most dealers today get 50/100/250+ emails "a day" ...

And most of those are from Joe: .. "I'm sitting at my desk at work and I won't be buying a car for 2 years, and I'm bored, so I'll send out 20 emails for every car from $20,000 to $75,000" ...

(or) ... "I'm 16 years old and my Dad has promised me a Solstice when I'm 18" ...

(or) ... "I would buy a car if they gave me $11,000 for my $7,500 trade and they can keep my payments the same with no $$ down" ....

And in your case ... your not shopping a car, your shopping a price -- and you want the dealer(s) to take you seriously.?

Stop and think about it .... you want to spend $20/$25,000+ and you haven't even looked up inventories, you haven't picked up a phone and you don't even have a contact --- and you want the dealer(s) to take you seriously...?

Let me give you the best example in the world about email, since todays society thinks convenience first, and "effort" later:

My nephew graduated top in class from Florida State and has been looking for a job for 7 months - all by resume via email .... his words: .. "nobody has emailed me back.." ... "there's no jobs out there" ... "what good is this diploma ..." etc, etc, etc ....

This last Tuesday I picked up his file and went online and mapquested the area's he wants to go ..... "I called" 2 of the Human Resource people in those area's and spent 5 minutes talking "job" and 20 minutes talking golf .... in the meantime, he'll be in South Carolina before July 17th to get into his new position ... (oh, by the way .. that's $75,000 for starts and $5,000 for moving expenses)

...both Human Resource people told me the same thing: .. "hundreds of resumes, but if they don't call us ~ we don't think they're are serious..."

Sound familiar.?...the only learning curve that has been lost here, is your own .....



Terry.

socala4

I think that you have to accept that there are few dealers who view the internet with the same goals as do the consumers who are anxious to use it.

The consumer using the internet generally dislikes car dealers, and is using it in the hope that they won't have to deal with car dealers. They want a relatively low price with minimal effort and hassle, and to understand exactly what they are getting up front before ever setting foot on the lot.

On the other hand, most dealers view the internet as a lead generator. They want to do business as they usually do, which means getting live bodies into the door of the dealership. Very few of them intend to use the internet as a click-and-pay business model ala Amazon.com.

If you view the traditional dealer business model, the basis for their reasoning becomes clear. Car sales are built on a method that makes an effort for you to actually forget about the price of the car, and to focus instead on the new car smell, the options, the color and the amount of the monthly payment. It also involves a lot of "upselling", as they try to layer extra packages, warranties, a loan package, or best of all, a lease deal onto the customer. And if that wasn't enough, they also want to get your used car at a low price, so they can make a nice profit on that, too.

All of that entails passing you through a series of salesmen who work together to get you to buy more than you had planned, and to pay more for it than you had expected. Compare that to something like Amazon, where you deal with no one and where you understand exactly what you are getting before you buy it, and you can see that the last thing that most dealers want is for you to buy a car as you would buy a book on Amazon (unless you are willing to pay MSRP and buy the add-ons at full retail, which you probably won't.) They don't want to be order takers who give a bargain price to everyone who clicks on their web page, they want to go for the gold and maximize their profits and commissions whenever and however possible.

You will find a few high-volume dealers that are more interested in volume than margins, and who might run genuine internet sales departments that try to minimize the amount of time spent with the consumer on the lot, but don't be surprised if most are not like that. The technology is relatively new, and the industry is largely selling cars in the same way that it sold them before you ever had an email account.

There's no learning curve for the guys who don't think that they have anything to learn. As you can see from many of the responses here, the dealers believe that the customer is always wrong, and it is up to you to meet their needs, not the other way around.

rroyce10

.... **If you view the traditional dealer business model, the basis for their reasoning becomes clear.**

....l..o..l.....



Did you get a compass with that theory....?



Terry.

nynewcar

people like myself

huh?

.?...the only learning curve that has been lost here, is your own .....

Not sure what you’re basing this on. I have been working on this for a couple of months, narrowing the choice down to four viable options, using the tools at edmunds.com and other sites to learn about the cars, the economics of ownership, and pricing. I visited the four closest dealerships and now I’m checking other area dealerships to see who will give me the best price.

I still think that if I contact a dealership that has signed up to be included in a list of dealers who promise to send free online quotes, it’s reasonable to expect they will send a quote.

british_rover

Are you just looking at one car model or at the very least one make or are you looking at everything.

Just for example are you sending emails to every car make that has a sedan priced uner 22,000 dollars?

If you are then that is probably part of your problem. Narrow the field down to two or three main contenders and then start looking for quotes.

What you are doing is kind of like the customer who I just met on the lot I don't even know his name yet and his first question is... pointing at a used car that he has not even been inside yet.

How much off of this asking price will you sell me this car?

nynewcar

Wow, what a well-thought-out response. Yes, I hate this process and want to minimize the hassle. I think I'm a reasonable person, and understand I can't eliminate it. In fact, all I wanted was to initiate it by email, to be followed up by visiting the dealerships. I wanted to feel a little more at ease when I walk into a dealership and face that battery of salesmen who want to separate me from as many dollars as they can.

Now that I've gotten a few serious responses, I know which dealerships to head for.

Thanks for presenting such an eloquent viewpoint.

socala4

Happy to help. And don't worry about the old school dealers who shout you down, that's just part of their sales tactics. (Pretend to be your sagely advisor to lead you through the fog, but then attack you if you don't obediently follow.) It's nothing personal, they have just learned to get nasty whenever they feel that control is slipping through their hands.

By the way, the dealers are right about one thing -- to appear to be a serious buyer, there are certain things that you do need to do to communicate the point that you aren't just sending out requests just for fun. But you are absolutely right that these websites make it seem that you can type in a few things, click your mouse and suddenly have a dozen quotes in your inbox. Apparently there is a huge disconnect between the people doing the internet promotions and web design, and those who work on the sales floor.

nynewcar

Just for example are you sending emails to every car make that has a sedan priced uner 22,000 dollars?

Not sure where you're getting that. We narrowed it down to four cars and sent requests for quotes for only those models. Then, in the reminders I sent out, I repeated the model & options we wanted, color choices we'd consider, how we will pay, and when we plan to buy. So I don't think you can compare me to that guy who walked onto your lot and pointed at the first car he saw.

In two of the dealerships we visited, the salesman didn't even know some details we asked for about the cars. And in one, they didn't even have a brochure to give us. I feel sorry for people who can't or don't use the Internet as a learning tool.

nynewcar

Apparently there is a huge disconnect between the people doing the internet promotions and web design, and those who work on the sales floor.

Yup. And I think it's to the disadvantage of the dealer. From what I just experienced, I think some are starting to "get it." They didn't send a quote immediately but at least their reply was sensible - they wanted to know what stage of the process we were at and other details, which I gladly supplied.

The others, it seems, will just have to figure it out the hard way.

mirth

Not sure where you're getting that. We narrowed it down to four cars and sent requests for quotes for only those models.

Sounds like you did everything right, but why not (for fun) post here what the actual wording was on the emails (leaving out personal info, natch)? That way all of us armchair (and professional) experts can give you an accurate opinion.

But bottom line, even if you dotted every "i" and crossed every "t", some dealers are not going to give you a quote. Either they don't have enough people to handle the email volume (so your email ends up in limbo), or they simply send a canned response back to try and get you to come down to the dealership (where their closing percentage will be greater). Stinks for you but what're you going to do?

phinneas519

When I was with my fiancee and her family visiting relatives in Fargo, ND this last winter, we decided to spend part of the day going around town kicking tires. We visited GM, Honda, Mercedes and a few other dealerships respectively. At the mercedes dealership, I noticed they had a very unique-looking vehicle on their lot so we stopped by to check it out. It looked like a Volvo, which I enjoy in terms of design, but it was actually a Mitsubishi (I always wanted to own one, since I was young). A 2004 Lancer Sportback LS, to be exact.

I took it for a test drive and enjoyed just about everything about it, as well as its power. They were asking $13,900, which was the straight up blue book for this vehicle. It didn't take in the factors of depreciation or mileage (8,200) though. When I spent some time with the dealer and learned all I wanted to about it, he gave me his card and I said I'd keep in touch, which I did. I did some research and found that the true value of the car was a good bit less than their asking price, at about $11,900 or so. I decided to offer my aging 2000 Corolla, which I was swindled on (another story in itself), and the difference of money for a total of $10,200.

Suffice it to say, they didn't accept that offer, which I had expected, so I made a final offer of $11,200 for the car itself with all warranties maintained with no fees (something that had been a problem with the Toyota too), even though $11,200 didn't reflect the total cost of the vehicle, since my trade-in wasn't at equity yet. They took it right away, though this was after about several weeks to a month of negotiations. I also demanded that if we were to go through with this transaction, I'd want full trade-in value for my car, which they also agreed to. Other places I had gone to wouldn't offer more than $4,400 for it but they offered a thousand dollars more, which was great (pretty good since they were relying on my word that it was well-maintained and five pictures of it that I sent to them). We did all the arrangements over e-mail, including the financing, which went through my bank, not them. I told them I wasn't about to drive from Wisconsin all the way to Fargo to get the vehicle, but offered to meet them a little less than halfway in Minnesota, which they agreed to.

When I met their sales person, everything went just fine. I filled out the paperwork, and the sales person filled up the Mitsubishi for me, while I was in it and off I went. I was fairly pleased over this, since it was my first car sales victory after my bad experience with the Toyota. After the "Toyota fiasco" I had researched cars and car buying strategies and so on for over a year so it would never happen to me again, which is what brings me to this forum. Anyway, that's my story and I'm fairly pleased with it. The car's great and hasn't been an ounce of trouble.

Ironically, the closest Mitsubishi-certified garage I can take this vehicle to is the same place that I bought my Toyota from!

jhs70

Here's my experience with email negotiations:

I bought a new truck last year. I had already driven that style truck in other venues, so going in to do a test drive was not necessary. I was armed and ready to try to negotiate the best price over the internet, and it worked. I emailed several dealers to begin the process. I never told A that I was talking to B or C, etc. All vehicles were exactly the same trim line, in other words, I felt I was bargaining for a pretty homogeneous commodity between three (or was it four? - i forget) dealers. Long story short, seemingly the best I could do with a couple of them was about $7200-7500 off MSRP. (There were some pretty good rebates going on.) On the truck I purchased, however, I got $9200 off from the dealer. The other dealers wouldn't even come close to that kind of deal. Now, I don't know why this particular truck was so much better of a deal (clearly there was something going on with it), and I don't really care; the point being, after a bunch of emails flying back and forth, I found, and got, a heck of a deal on a great truck. Later I took the purchased truck out for a test spin to make sure everything was ok.
Bottom line? It was all done via e-mail, it didn't take all that much of my time, really, and it was kind of fun. All of the dealerships played "the game", and I was happy to find out that the dealership I bought from, when I actually set foot in the place, treated me really nice. And I'm still loving the truck too. (It's just a stock truck, but I keep getting compliments on it. I've owned several trucks, but never before have I gotten a compliment on one. Well, you know, I'm a guy, and I didn't buy the truck to go fishing for compliments. But I digress..) So this internet shopping thing can work, but from my experience I would hate to generalize when and how.

cti

...both Human Resource people told me the same thing: .. "hundreds of resumes, but if they don't call us ~ we don't think they're are serious..."

Congrats to your nephew.

A coworker had the opposite response yesterday. He posted his resume on Monster.com and got an offer in one day (the exception that proves the rule...)

$176,000 plus benefits. :surprise: What does my corker do? Arabic translator in the Marines. What was the job? Contract work in Iraq. I guess they are a little desperate for people. He said no.

ObCarComment: He drives a Subaru WRX and is a walking breathing stereotype of what you might imagine the typical WRX driver to be.

Also, I've had good luck with the one time I emailed a dealer. I didn't even put my telephone number in, but I made sure to explain in the body that I really, really hate getting phone calls (which is why I was using email...). The response was short and professional and after the first response, which was basically just numbers, didn't exhibit a whiff of canned boilerplate response.

british_rover

That is a good thing to do. You don't have to put a phone number in the request but you don't it does make you look less serious.

Saying in the body of the request that you do not like getting phone calls and your prefer emails is a very good idea.

Just remember that larger dealers get 100s of internet quote requests a day and yours is going to have to stand out in order to get a serious response.

nynewcar

Thanks, mirth. I'm sorry if I came off sounding angry, maybe I worded my message that way but it's not how I feel. It's just that it was my first experience with the concept of "shopping online" and I was wondering whether the replies I got were about par for the course. Eventually, after the reminders I sent, I got several more useful responses and will move forward with the process by visiting those dealerships in person. At this point I feel as if "shopping online" can be somewhat helpful, but there's still a big gap between what online buyers want and what dealers are giving instead.

The initial quote requests I sent went through edmunds.com, but the follow-up notes I wrote went something like: We are looking for a 2006 Azera Limited, with no additional options. We prefer Golden Beige but will consider other colors. We will buy within the next two weeks, in cash, with no trade-in. After seeing your quote, I will consider contacting you and visiting the dealership to move forward with the process. Thank you.

That was the information I was asked for at the dealerships I had already visited in person, so I realized that if a dealer really did want to work with me, that's what he or she would want to know. Some, as you said, are clearly not going to respond with a quote no matter what I do.

I think that these dealers just don't get that using the same approach online as they do in other settings is going to backfire, hard, because the evasiveness and bullying is exactly why some customers are going online before going to the dealership.

If these guys would take a long-term view of business development, they'd just stay offline until they learn how to operate effectively in this venue.

socala4

I think that these dealers just don't get that using the same approach online as they do in other settings is going to backfire, hard, because the evasiveness and bullying is exactly why some customers are going online before going to the dealership.

If these guys would take a long-term view of business development, they'd just stay offline until they learn how to operate effectively in this venue.

Except for the high volume guys who make their profit through fast inventory turnover (they make up for some of the margin they give away by selling more cars and reducing their inventory financing costs), most of them don't see it that way.

Simply put, most salesmen want a pretty good haul when they go fishing, not a low-profit deal (what they call a "mini", and they don't call them that affectionately.) What you consider to be a hassle is the very foundation for the sales system they use to increase the profitability of a deal so that it doesn't end up being a "mini." (What you might consider to be a shakedown is something that they call "upselling.")

They use this system because it works for them, and the system that you'd prefer works against them. The reason they have email is that if they don't do it, you'll go to someone else who does.

I'll tell you one thing -- wanting no options, having no trade and paying cash were three strikes against you. If you have a decent trade, the dealer wants it (it's another profit center for them), and they would prefer that you use the dealership for financing (they make a profit on the loans, too.) The options create profit, so your desire to not have them minimized the margins further still.

You thought you were being straightforward and direct, and you were, but how they read your message was this:

Hi, I want to buy a car that generates minimal profit for you. (And while I didn't mention it, I'm a low price shopper.) I don't have a trade for you to make money on, and your F&I guy isn't going to sell me a loan.

Please email me -- don't call me, because I don't like you people -- and let me know if you're going to give me a great price. (And once I've gotten your written quote, you can bet your bottom dollar that I'll be shopping it to your competition.) Thanks.

Sorry, but that's the game. Between somebody who is dripping money and you, you are the less sexy of the two. The guy only has so much time in a day, and he's going to prefer the low hanging fruit.

nynewcar

Wow, that is fascinating! It’s very interesting and educational to see my situation from your perspective.

straightforward and direct = Yup. Maybe their disappointment will be mitigated by the fact that I won’t take up too much of their time.

low price shopper = Uhm. Yeah. Is that a bad thing? Am I supposed to be ashamed of that? ‘Cause I’m not.

you can bet your bottom dollar that I'll be shopping it to your competition = Why? I think your assumption is flawed on this point. I am doing a lot of homework so as to be able to recognize a good offer when I see it. That means I also know that even if I did take the time to “shop it around,” I wouldn’t be able to shave off more than a few dollars. I don’t like the haggling process to begin with. I certainly wouldn’t willingly repeat it at a second and maybe a third dealership for such minimal savings.

I got about five or six serious responses in all. One, from a major dealer in the area, was particularly interesting. I’ll start there, and if it checks out as being genuine, they’ll get my business. Maybe I stumbled on to one of those dealers you mention who makes profits through high inventory turnover. What can I say, it works for me.

No options = As it happens, all the features we want are standard on the Azera. They have hardly any options to choose from, in fact. One of their main selling points is that their standard version is so generously-equipped that you don’t need to add options the way you would on their competitors’ cars. For other manufacturers, like Toyota, I did specify which features we wanted as options or options packages if they weren’t included in the standard build.

Lastly, I checked with my inner babe, and we decided that even though a car salesman may think my penny-pinching ways aren’t sexy, we beg to differ :P.

They may not remember me as their favorite customer, but the fact remains that within a week or two I’m going to be dropping something over $25,000 at one of these places. Using the Internet as a learning tool has given me a lot more confidence about being able to make a good decision, and maybe helped me level the playing field somewhat. As far as the salesmen/women, whether they do it grudgingly or with gratitude, I’m pretty sure they’ll take my money either way. And then me and my shiny new car will drive off into the sunset, or to the nearest mall where I can get back to the kind of shopping I actually enjoy .

socala4

Thanks for the feedback, I hope that you found that entertaining.

Based upon your posts, it seems that you sent out about a dozen requests for quotes, and got about a half-dozen responses, of which only one actually provided you with a written quote. (Not sure if that's correct, so if you could clarify that, I'd appreciate it.)

I'm curious -- of the ones who responded, but who didn't give you a quote, what did they say in their responses? I am guessing that most of them asked you to phone or go to the dealership, but I'd be interested to know if they gave you any of what you were looking for.

"you can bet your bottom dollar that I'll be shopping it to your competition"...I think your assumption is flawed on this point. I am doing a lot of homework so as to be able to recognize a good offer when I see it.

I see your point of view, I'm just sharing with you how the dealer likely interprets your comment. When you tell them to write you and you'll respond if you're interested, that comes off as a comparison shopper who will use the written quote to get a deal from someone else.

They often don't like to put things in writing because (a) they would prefer to get you back onto the monthly payment/ upsell track and (b) they don't want you to use their quote to take business elsewhere.

And despite the continuous claim that they love informed buyers, they are only interested in you being informed about certain aspects of the deal. They want you to know enough about the car to want it (hopefully, enthusiastically), they want you to have a "realistic" value for your trade (i.e. well below wholesale Kelley Blue Book), and they want you to know that you can't buy the car for $15,000 below invoice.

But if you were blissfully unaware of the invoice and fixated on the MSRP, they would like that very much. And despite the desire to have informed buyers, the very mention of the word "holdback" only creates angst and animosity. (Funny, you think that being so informed would create a certain level of respect, but I suppose not...)

bobst

I don't think we should expect dealers to give us prices over the phone or by internet. If they do, that is nice, but I don't think we should expect it.

Find a dealer that has the car you want, go there in person, and make an offer or enter into negotiations using Socal's advice.

isellhondas

I can usually spot the serious vs. the non serious inquiries.

The ones that don't give me a phone number..."E-Mail contact only" are usually non buyers. I'm happy to e-mail these people but I usually (not always) don't hear back from them.

And, I wish people wouldn't give me phony phone numbers that they select at random. If you put down 555-1234, I will know it's phoney. A couple of weeks ago the number I was given was to a room at Children's Hospital and a hospice nurse answered the phone.

isellhondas

I don't mind giving prices over the phone but we don't put themn in writing.