Honda Element

moonkat

robertsmx;
So did I; and I've got it on tape....
Amounted to Element as backdrop for John Davis for two introductions of other topics...
Vehicle is imposing even as background, especially for such a small truck. Wonder when MW will do road test?!!!

jefyou

I know that Honda usually has decent safety rating but there is a design element on the Element that concerns me. The doors open out from each other and that allows the designers to leave out the side pillar that usually separates doors. If the Element is involved in a side impact crash won't this allow the other vehicle to enter the cabin much easier? Even with stronger doors I can't imagine how this would be as safe as one having a pillar. Any thoughts??

robertsmx

Given Honda's emphasis on safety these days, I wouldn't be surprised if Element joined CRV, MDX and Pilot in achieving 5-star safety ratings all-around, as well as good rating from IIHS (can't say about Europe-style pedestrian safety though where sloping hood in Civic helps it gets the highest rating in that regard).

stever

The suicide doors are of concern, so it'll be interesting to learn more about how they are engineered to compensate. I'd guessing a beefier frame like convertibles for starters?

Steve, Host

ropedart

There are steel tangs from the rear doors that fit into the chassis top and bottom. The rear doors are also so thick they make the rear seating seemed more cramped than the front seats according to AutoWorld. Don't worry its well overdone.

ropedart

According to Automobile magazine. Apparently Honda is briefing journalists with conservative estimates of performance. Honda does not need a Hyundai horsepower like debacle.

C&D estimates around 10 secs for a loaded Element???

Well lets just say its not going to be much of towing vehicle.

ateixeira

The power of the internet, eh varmint?

FWIW, Honda was much more responsive to that tranny issue, as opposed to Toyota, who blamed owners and only fanned the flames.

0-60 ain't everything. MW's Navigator took 10.3 seconds to reach 60, but it's an excellent tow vehicle.

-juice

varmint

Are you concerned about front occupants, or people in the rear seat?

If you take a look at the rear seats, you'll note that they are positioned farther back in the vehicle. Rear passengers are actually well protected by the C pillar.

Front occupants are more of a concern. But it looks like Honda has added plenty of steel to compensate and then there's the side-airbag option.

I agree that it is a concern, but I'm not losing any sleep. Honda is predicting five star ratings. They have yet to promise, but not deliver in that particular area.

varmint

Actually, the CR-V has been used a taxi in some places (Hawaii was the last I saw). It's also been used a rural rescue vehicle.

I'm not sure that the Element would work, though. The large back seat is a key taxi requirement, but the lack of a middle seating position would be a problem. It would also be somewhat difficult to separate the driver's area from the passenger's. The lack of a B pillar would make it tough to anchor any kind of divider. Someone also told me that Taxis use RWD as it is easier/cheaper to maintain.

daveghh

In Costa Rica all the Taxis outside of San Jose are Toyota Land Cruisers! Talk about cool!

In thailand they modified the CRV to be a 10 seater.

Modify the seats in the Element and you could easily make a taxi out of it.

I love my 2002 CRV, but I wonder if I should have waited for the ELement! I am a little dissapointed with its mileage though...

moonkat

Are you able to comment on performance/driving-fun of the auto & 5 spd CRV vs the heavier Element? I know the E is supposed to handle very well (best of Honda SUVs FWIW) but wonder about the sacrifice in performance among the 5spd 2whl drive, auto and auto AWD. That's a spread of what....150 lbs?!...and the E is 150 lbs heavier than CRV?!!!!

Guess I am asking how fun/peppy a 2wd auto CRV is and how that would translate to the heavier E.

Still fascinated by the vehicle, but do not want to be driving a dog (transporting, yes; driving no)....:-)

ateixeira

Don't you have to open the driver's door before opening the rear door?

Taxi passenger ride in the back, usually, so this would be totally impractical if the front seat is vacant.

The CR-V, OTOH, would make a good taxi.

I bet a 5 speed Element still feels peppy enough. Auto about adequate. Quicker than that Navigator MW tested, FWIW.

-juice

himiler

Car and Driver noted that the Element uses a bunch of reinforcements aound the the passenger compartment, and also made the rocker panels bigger, which helps to explain the 250lb. weight increase over a similarly-equipped CR-V.

Better safe than sorry, I guess. Too bad about the projected mileage, though.
EPA city: 20-21 mpg
EPA highway: 23-25 mpg

Very un-Hondalike numbers.

Thumbsup on the Element taxi idea!

ateixeira

Those numbers are fine. You'll lose maybe 1-2 mpg vs. the CR-V, no biggie.

A friend at work commutes in his Navigator and averages 9mpg in the city, to put things in perspective.

-juice

himiler

I hope he owns stock in oil companies.

varmint

Moonkat - I haven't driven a 2002 5 speed, yet. I've only driven the automatics. If I had to guess, this is how I would rate things.

So that you know where I'm coming from... The automatic in the 1999-01 CR-V requires you to put your foot deep into the pedal. It gets moving okay, but the experience is far from sporty. I own a 5 speed CR-V (1999 model). It has enough pep in the mid to high rpm band to get moving when necessary. Once you learn the shiftpoints, it can bring a modest smile to your face. If you're familiar with those vehicles, you should understand my next comments.

The 2002 automatic feels about as peppy as my 1999 5 speed. Only, you don't need to worry about shiftpoints and it takes a little less revving (way smoother, too). It feels like a 10% improvement over the old manual and a 25% improvement over the old automatic. I have not driven the 2002 model with a 5 speed. When tested in 0-60 runs, the CR-V launches reasonably well, but it really shines from 40-60. This appears to be true of both the automatic and manual.

Okay, now for the Element. I don't think that the weight of the Element will make a huge difference. The poor aerodynamics will have a larger net affect. As such, this is what I expect... The Element will most likely launch reasonably well, not unlike the current CR-V. However, it will not do as well once the speed increases (over 40mph). This is where the aerodynamics will come into play.

While the 0-60 numbers won't match, I expect the "feel" of the car will be very much like the V6 Santa Fe or Aztek. It'll be fine around town, but pushing it hard won't provoke terrific results.

inmyelement

Hey..i'll those mpgs anyday! Best i've ever done in the Sport Trac is 15mgp all hwy. I test drove '02 CRV a/t, it was fine for me..i can live w/ it. hopefully the aerodynamics will be better then my old(eck...dare I say it..) suzuki samurai ;-) Called honda C/R to ask if the E will be at Boston autoshow...they didn't know...Handacars.com has a new pics of E on there homepage, can't connect to element page. :-(

moonkat

Very nice comparo/summary!

ateixeira

himiler: LOL! Thing is, gas around here costs $1.929 for premium, ouch!

The 2.4l engine is pretty nice, not unlike some smaller V6s. Don't knock it before you try it.

-juice

jwilberding

I have looked everywhere to find the specs ie. wheelbase, weight and interior space. I am wondering if it will fit a motorcycle and a go-kart. I remember that prior to the PT launch I thought it was much bigger by just looking at the pictures. Knowing that the element is based on the CR-V platform the wheelbase should be the same, but the dimensions of the back look HUGE when everything is removed.

varmint

Actually, the wheelbase is two inches shorter (101 inches). Cargo capacity is a max of 77 cu.ft. Sorry, I don't recall the other dimensions.

himiler

It's tall, but not long enough for a motorcycle or wide enogh for a go-kart.

inmyelement

http://www.hondanews.com/forms/hondaElement/seetext?2002082659245

diploid

I get a blank screen.

npei72

Wheelbase 101.4 in.
Overall Length 166.5 in.
Width 71.5 in.
Height 74.0 in.

Rear seats down/up/removed: 25.1/72.7/74.6

I am really disappointed by its length. I thought it should be as same as CR-V (178.6), however, it comes in a RAV4 size.

moonkat

Hatch opening is a little over 42 inches wide which is the width of the picnic table in the floor you see in photos. How wide is a go-cart? For that matter, how long is your motorcycle?

scname

What's the payload limit of Element ? The 02 CRV is 850 pounds including occupant. My neighbor carries his motorcycle on a F150. I doubt the Element is suitable for that.

ateixeira

Don't forget, less length means easier parking into tight spaces, and probably a tighter turning circle.

-juice

inmyelement

Yes looking forward to being able to park 'nice and easy' again! Question: Anyone seen the E at the autoshows?

ateixeira

Yes, I saw it at the NY Auto Show. It has lots of "presence". It'll definitely get noticed.

For those that call it an ugly duckling, did you ever actually look closely at the ugly duckling in those cartoons? He was sort of cute in his own way, unique. Same way pugs are cute.

I liked it, better in person than in photos.

-juice

robertsmx

That was a good one Juice. How about Poodle versus Pug?

ropedart

http://www.elementroadtrip.com/

diploid

More like following those models around. I only see 2 pictures that include the Element.

chris777

the most interesting thing in the pics was that the sunset orange actually looked orange rather than red

ateixeira

Poodle? Nah.

The CR-V has a sort of bulldog's underbite. Notice how the front bumper cladding wraps up around the grille.

I prefer the Element's styling. Bolder, more unique.

Have you seen the de-cladded Avalanche pics? To be honest, I kinda like it better with the cladding. It just looks like a plain pickup without it.

-juice

diploid

Edmunds' editor voted the Nissan 350Z has the most significant car of the year, but the Element (and Mazda6 & Porsche Cayenne (!!)) received honorable mention.

Who would've thunk? They like the Element. Almost as odd - the Mini didn't win, although it did win in another category.

And I can't wait to read the letters to the editors - you're all just going to have to count how many BMWs won in their respective categories.

stever

Editors' Most Wanted Vehicles for 2003

Steve, Host

inmyelement

it's gonna be BIG! of course they like the element

diploid

I didn't think they would!

a_l_hubcaps

I must say, I am in the Element demographic (age 19), and although I was weirded out by it at first, the thing is growing on me. In fact, the main reason I like it is that it appears to be the perfect vehicle for my hobby/business, selling used hubcaps. I find most of my inventory on the roadside, so I need a vehicle that is durable, versatile, easy to keep clean, has lots of cargo space, and is fairly inexpensive and basic. An Element DX seems like it would fit the bill perfectly. I'm used to no A/C because the R-12 system in my Pontiac doesn't blow cold, so that would not bother me. I would want to stick an in-dash MP3 player in it, though, to replace the standard gaping-hole-with-wires-hanging-out.

Of course, this is all hypothetical, because my Pontiac wagon is a good capping vehicle in its own right, and seeing as I am a college student who makes money solely by eBaying hubcaps, I can't exactly pay for an Element anyway. This, I think, is the main problem Honda will face with this car: the people who want it won't be able to pay for a new car.

-Andrew L

stever

I'm afraid to ask what else you are finding along the roadsides....



If you want to expand, this guy is selling out (only wants 40k for them according to the CBC radio story on just now!).



Steve, Host

a_l_hubcaps

Steve-

Other odd things seen on the roadside: Lots of shoes, and the occasional hood or bumper that fell off a car. I found a perfect working Whistler radar detector once, and it now sits on my dashboard. I also have a small assortment of license plates.

I think I'll pass on the Quebec deal...I already have approximately 4,000 hubcaps meticulously organized in my parents' basement, and I find more all the time :-)

-Andrew L

moondogguy1

I used to have a Nissan pickup truck with vinyl floor (no carpet) that I would hose out on a regular basis. Seem to remember some drain holes existed. Never did hurt the electronics although I was always careful in where I pointed the hose. Can the same thing be done in the Element?

moonkat

Great pics...

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=317782

learned from http://www.hondaelement.org/

Make mine a "g-green e".

ateixeira

Aerio? Guess there isn't much competition at that price. They should have done wagons under $20k and $30k instead of $15k and $25k.

-juice

robertsmx

but thought this was an interesting picture.

diploid

Thanks for the link moonkat. I always find it odd how amateur pics can look so much better than the ones supplied by the manufacturers.

I also like the green...it blends with the cladding very well.

robertsmx

Great pictures!

varmint

Great pics. I just noticed a small problem for the first time. Take note of where the seat belt for the front passenger is attached (on the rear door) and picture this:

You're dropping off kids on your way to work. You pull over to let them out. Not only do you have to open your door before they can pile out, you also have to remove your seat belt to get that door open.

One extra step is no biggie. I could get accustomed to that, but the seat belt is two steps too many.

strager

points out the same thing about the seat belts that Varmint does. But overall, they like the Element. I suspect that demand will be more than the 50K units that Honda is forecasting, especially if it's a hit with families.

http://www.detnews.com/2002/autosconsumer/0210/31/g01-625953.htm