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Honda Element

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  • According to Car and driver magazine:

    CRV 4WD EX :
    0-60 (5 speed manual) : 8.2 seconds
    0-60 (4 speed auto) :8.8 seconds

    With the weigh increase of 250-300lbs of the Element I predict being 0.5 second or so slower over the CRV times; however Honda could alter the Final drive ratios or some of the transmission gear ratios and this could make it almost even with the times of the CRV...Only a drive test will confirm this for sure.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    The CR-V with a stick is deceptively fast. It's been clocked 0-60 between 8.1 seconds and 8.8 with most falling at 8.5 seconds.

    Don't expect that kind of performance out of the Element, though. I think under 10 sounds about right.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Mariobros - Where did you find those times for the CR-V?
  • My,my fault...
    Car & driver ..NOV 2001 page 90
    lists 4WD CRV EX 5 Speed at 0-60 in 8.4 seconds...; the 8.8 second I beleibe was from a 3 suv comparo in C&D..I just hve to check what issue was from.

    However Motor Trend September 2002 issue page 92 in a mini SUV comparo between a Ford escape, and CRV and a Saturn Vue list the CRV EX 5 speed 8.1 second for 0-60 ; it even bested the Ford Escape (V6)
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Right. MT ran 0-60 in 8.1 seconds, C&D in 8.4, and at least one other in 8.5 (I forget the source). Edmunds hit 60 in 8.8 seconds, though they mention that it rained while they were at the track.

    A while back, Truck Trend got 8.91 seconds with an automatic. I've never seen anything lower. CR reached 60 in 9.6 seconds with the auto. Those are the only automatic times I am aware of.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I agree with Mario, in that they were thinking ahead, and that if the Element sells well they'll have the 2004 Element SUT at dealers in a year. A Crew Cab basically, which would be extremely easy to do given the small doors already in place.

    Honda knows what they're doing. They cannot please every single consumer. I think the idea here was to create a niche vehicle to please a separate group of consumers that have not even considered the CR-V. A new niche.

    -juice
  • tdp05tdp05 Posts: 16
    I don't frequent this board, but I was driving in Los Angeles,(405S, near Honda's HQ) and I saw one of these on the freeway on the back of a truck. Thought some of you might like to see it.

     

    http://home.socal.rr.com/dancingpeacock/element.jpg
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    If Edmund's numbers on BMW 3.0 X5 are correct, that vehicle weighs 4800+ lb with 225 HP, or about the same weight to power ratio as the heaviest Element (which is not too far from my 1998 Accord EX sedan either, at about 21-21.5 lb. per HP). At 3600 lb. Element would still be 500 lb. lighter than Liberty.

    Dimensions are supposedly very different from CRV. Shorter, but wider and taller, and 16" rims.
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    "The Element is intentionally different."-varmit

    I know that. My point is that the intentional difference is at the price of performance. I don't expect this thing to be able to do 0-60 in less than 10 seconds. I may not be in the gen Y - but those people that atexeira mentioned, the ones with the nose rings and the tattoos, probably don't have a job, are too stoned to think and probably have revoked drivers' licenses. Contrary to what people think, the Y gen and people like me prefer a car with at least some performance. This car is a slouch, and it's because of the suicide doors. Honda could've given it conventional doors, and the car would still look cool.

    I was hoping that the rumored weight problem could be avoided, but I guess not.
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    image

    This would've saved weight and the car still would've looked radical. But I don't run Honda, so they'll do what they want despite my ramblings.
  • daveghhdaveghh Posts: 495
    tdp05,
    Thanks for sharing! I think it looks cool!
  • ropedartropedart Posts: 163
    Why not just put the 200 hp Accord V6 engine in? Forget about the CRV customers/line. They don't care. If they want more power they get a Pilot. Just explain to them the Element is heavy and needs more power. Honda has no SUV hp power between 160 and 240. Thats a big gap. Would you pay say 23K$ for a V6 Element??
    Or being low volume product encourage/pay Vortek or Jackson Racing to make a Supercharger for Honda Performance.
    tdp05->BLACK bumpers there's hope!
  • Interesting! Comparing power to weight with 3.0 BMW X5

    For X5 and Element, I calculated curb weight divided by HP and curb weight divided by torque then averaged the two.

    This is what I got:

    First:

    2002 BMW X5 3.0 automatic trans- 4824 lbs 225hp 214 torque

    5spd 2WD Element 3352 lbs 160hp/162Torque
    5spd AWD Element 3544 lbs 160/162
    Auto AWD Element 3595 lbs 160/162

    So using these weights and averaging lbs/hp and lbs/foot-pound of torque as noted above I got the following figures:

    BMW X5---------------21.99 lbs per hp/torque

    5spd 2WD Element-----20.82 lbs per hp/torque
    5spd AWD Element-----22.01 lbs per hp/torque
    Auto AWD Element-----22.32 lbs per hp/torque

    So Robertsmx is right!
    The Element should be close to the X5 in acceleration etc..

    The stick 2WD should even smoke the BMW!

    According to Edmunds the 2002 X5 3.0 auto makes it to 60 in 8.5 secs and hits the quarter in 16.4 @84.3 MPH

    I could certainly live with performance like that or close to that from an Element.

    Perhaps it won't be so slow after all.
  • chris777chris777 Posts: 126
    I've heard the bulk of the weight has been added in reinforcing the structure of the floor

    they strengthened the attachment points and made the floor stronger to disperse the damage in a crash particularly the suicide doors to get the 5 star crash rating so they didn't have to kill the whole project (at least in their own eyes)

    I agree with diploid standard doors would make this vehicle a much better value

    if the original suicide doors off of the model x could have worked it might be sweet because those were pretty big

    now its like the rx8 or the Saturn ion with suicide doors just for the sake of them

    I think they would be better than say a 2 door element but look at the pics the seats in the rear are way further back on entrance and egress than on the MoDel-X (MD-X I wondered why they changed the name now it makes sense)

    something that has been giving me worries on the suicide doors, is a downpour, first you have to open the front then open the back then reverse to shut the opening, sounds like a lot of time to put those waterproof seats to good use (oopse if you happen to buy a dx)

    I've also been thinking about space between the doors and other cars the front doors are larger than normal doors like on a coupe so you might not be able to open them so wide, like all the honda pics if in a tight parking space

    I personally think sliding doors on both the front and the back like on a mini van would rule no more door dings unless some jerk dings you but thats my opinion (keep the b pillar, what could possibly be loaded through the suicide doors that couldn't go in the tailgate?)
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    There's a whole load of new Element pics on wieck. Gray on gray looks the best.

    http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_042034

    DX's got some ugly rims.
  • ropedartropedart Posts: 163
    I am glad the cladding got darker. But the Black one is disappointing, I mean in a Scion bbX way. Those cheap rims. Needs chrome or something. Silver is best. Orange/Red probably the most exciting. The rest-> dump the cans down the (recycling)sink.
    Can anyone read the dimensions?
  • themaxxthemaxx Posts: 2
    I am buying the first one in Austin for my girl friend. She is Disabled and has use of only one arm. The doors make for easy access for her in retrieving her items from the back. For US it was one of the greatest selling points.
  • chris777chris777 Posts: 126
    those pics of the " red sunset" look like hazy pollution, a poor photochop job lol

    but seriously

    I noticed something encouraging though not my first choice on interior color the green one had a green dash, its subtle but its green if you compare it to the Galapagos and the gray interior, maby different colors will get different interiors

    the cup holders are deeper and added an extra cup for the rear as well as I'm guessing tape storage?

    on the pic with the interior rear view mirror is that an over head light in front of a sunglasses holder, or something else?

    also what is the box under the ex shifter its not on the dx and looks replaced by a cubby on the dx

    the ex stereo maybe powerful but it just looks so lame.

    I wish it had both cd and cassette like on the crv

    I usually like painted steel wheels instead of wheel covers but those steel rims do look pretty rough if they offer a 2wd ex package for significant savings over 4wd I might spring for it
    it would still have to be fairly close to a 2wd crv unless I really like the element better (a lot better)

    I don't like the visibility sketch their looks to be a large blind spot created by the rearmost pillar because they had to fatten it confirming one of my biggest concerns about this vehicle

    i also noticed what looks like some sort of button on the dx drivers door a hatch release perhaps?

    also judging from the suv like seating sketch with dimensions (I couldn't make out any of it either) it does appear the rear floor is more suv like it has little leg room like say on a exterra or a 4 -runner(when compared to the deeper front seats) so a pick up derived from element might well be something coming in the future
  • I agree Chris, a 2wd EX package would be appealing for not only cost savings but weight savings.

    But aren't there some options that only come with the 4wd?

    The rear sunroof is the only option that comes to mind that I believe you can only get with the 4wd but perhaps there are others..

    I like the red/gray and the silver/gray.

    What happened to the Silver/blue?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Those are some nice, big steel wheels. They're kind of styled, I like that. Am I the only one that does?

    I'd put snow or off road tires on that, maybe bigger, and then get 17" alloys for the summer, and swap for the seasons.

    BTW, the X5 is not fast. I drove it back-to-back with a 530 wagon and much, much prefer the 5 series. Better handling, ride, acceleration, price, and much more cargo space.

    The Element won't take 10 seconds to hit 60, I'll bet you a cold one if we ever meet in person.

    -juice
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