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Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,785
    edited January 2013
    And whether or not a SL was too slow/fast/right is irrelevant to this particular discussion. No "if's, and's, or but's".

    Nothing vague about a half an hour, sorry. 30 is a pretty concrete quantifiable number.

    Keep throwing in red herrings and distractions, speaks volumes.

    Just keep right.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,727
    I doubt that "I didn't see any other traffic and I didn't want to wait so dang long for the light to change" will be seen as a valid excuse to avoid a running-red-light ticket based on photo evidence. ;)

    Well, a little pain for a little gain!
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,752
    edited January 2013
    And whether or not a SL was too slow/fast/right is irrelevant to this particular discussion. No "if's, and's, or but's".

    Since we are discussing speeds and what is a "reasonable" speed it is relevant.

    Nothing vague about a half an hour, sorry. 30 is a pretty concrete quantifiable number.

    True but you didn't say "half an hour" you said when it gets dark which is not a concrete quantifiable number.

    Keep throwing in red herrings and distractions, speaks volumes.

    Not throwing any red herrings or distractions. I am just pointing out that what you consider reasonable my not hold true along the spectrum.

    Just keep right.

    Slow down, you'll live longer.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,785
    edited January 2013
    I'd just avoid that intersection, or document the broken light with my own camera, put it online and go to the press with it, get others to join in, and have the problem solved one way or another. Raise enough stink, and the overpaid underworked retire at 55 with 85% "workers" will face pressure and embarrassment.

    On that subject, it appears my fair city finally fixed one of the sticking light intersections, I have noticed quicker changes the past few days, light changes before I give up on it.

    Oh, another should-be caveat of light cameras - city buys the cameras and then owns 100% of the proceeds, no palm-greasing crony capitalist red light camera operators get to be involved.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,785
    edited January 2013
    The original context was a notoriously slow highway in my area. I don't think any sound mind can defend the slowpokes on that road as being "reasonable".

    I have repeatedly made posts about lights off during darkness. It is assumed this darkness is at least a half hour after sunset, as in most weather conditions, the light in the sky does not vanish until this point. And of no matter, if someone is stupid enough to not turn on the lights during dim conditions just because they legally do not have to, they deserve what they get.

    Haven't seen anything showing going slow leads to longer lives. The limit, aimed for the lowest common denominator, is plenty slow enough on dry pavement on 95% of roads, in my experience anyway. What you consider "reasonable" might hold true for even less of the spectrum than what I hold likewise.

    And that's enough time devoted to tangents and red herrings, have a nice day, I will return to posting about local yokels ;)
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,793
    edited January 2013
    Michigan says lights on a half hour after sunset to a half hour before sunrise and any other time you can't clearly see 500'. I didn't see a definition of "sunset" but Wiki says that's when the sun first completely sets below the horizon.

    Kind of surprised - thought it'd be a half hour before sunset.

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  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,752
    The original context was a notoriously slow highway in my area. I don't think any sound mind can defend the slowpokes on that road as being "reasonable".

    Again slow and reasonable are subjective terms. Case in point, I have talked a few times about one road I travel down. Taking into account that there are several spots of limited sight distance, no shoulder, high vegetation right up to the side of the road and the dangers of large wild life crossing the road I strongly believe that 35-40 MPH is a reasonable speed for the road. However the occasional driver that races up behind me and rides my rear end would call me a slowpoke. Who is right?

    I have repeatedly made posts about lights off during darkness. It is assumed this darkness is at least a half hour after sunset,

    Well darkness can happen anytime. There have been times during the daylight that I would have said it was dark (heavy dark cloud covering). I would consider any time during civil twilight bright enough to drive without lights on if the skies are clear. Civil twilight depending on location can extend past the 30 minute mark.

    So what you consider "Dark" others may not.

    Haven't seen anything showing going slow leads to longer lives.

    I have seen studies that show an increased risk of a fatal accident increases with speed at speed higher that between 35-40MPH. When you look at the physics involved it does make perfect sense. However thats not what I mean. So slow down you'll live longer. Think about it.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,752
    Michigan says lights on a half hour after sunset to a half hour before sunrise and any other time you can't clearly see 500'.

    Typically in Michigan Civil twilight extends just past that 30 minute mark. Civil twilight is considered to be to the time that the center of the sun is 6 degrees below the horizon. During Civil sunset on clear or mostly clear days one can still make out details and colors. So it makes sense that they have it at 30 minutes after sunset.

    I didn't see a definition of "sunset" but Wiki says that's when the sun first completely sets below the horizon.

    Sunset is when the geometric center of the sun dips blow the horizon. So when you can still see part of the sun (but less than half) it is after sunset.

    Kind of surprised - thought it'd be a half hour before sunset.

    Actually the hour prior to sunset (and the hour after sunrise) is considered to be the optimal lighting conditions. Photographers call this the golden hour.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,785
    edited January 2013
    Your case in point is nice, but unrelated to the original context.

    " I would consider any time during civil twilight bright enough to drive without lights on if the skies are clear. "

    And you would be in violation of the law, at least in my state, as that would be more than a half hour past official sunset. Twilight is not relevant. Why would someone want to be less visible, anyway? Especially if there are shady streets or kids around, the former of which is a constant in my area.

    Still seeing nothing concrete about slowing down and living longer. Seems some places with faster traffic than this soon to be second world mess also have better life expectancies, and lower casualty rates. Hmm. Drive as slow as you want, just stay in the right lane where you belong. Then we can all go about our way.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,793
    edited January 2013
    It's funny that Alaska has the same requirement as Michigan, except the distance is out to 1,000 feet. In the summer, twilight literally lasts for hours. For most of June, there just isn't any twilight, even down in Anchorage. That time of year it helps to run your lights so the 10 year old kids playing in the street at midnight can see you coming. :D

    I'm further west than Chicago yet on Eastern Time - that makes for nice long evenings with sunsets as late as 9:55pm and seemingly long twilights - really around 40 minutes at the peak.

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,785
    Drove down the south sound today - very little issues. Only one LLCer comes to mind, a Murano being passed by numerous cars on the right, showing no signs of having a clue. Otherwise, traffic was light and the slowpokes were kindly keeping to the right lane.
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla MarylandPosts: 701
    Headlights in urban/suburban areas are less about helping the driver see the road and more about letting *OTHER* drivers see that *YOU (the driver)* are on the road.

    So as soon as it becomes difficult for other drivers to see your car, the lights come on. If you drive a fluorescent-yellow car, then you get to flick your lights on later, as it's highly noticeable to other drivers. But if you drive a silver-grey car, then those lights will probably need to come on anytime it gets cloudy.

    Now, I know that people will argue about the premise, that lights are more to get you noticed by other drivers. But honestly, think about it. If you have an idiot driving with no lights on a rural road... does anyone really care if he wraps his car around a tree?

    One less idiot on the road in my book.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,727
    Now, I know that people will argue about the premise, that lights are more to get you noticed by other drivers.

    I agree with that... to a point. Obviously if it's total darkness, there's two purposes for lights.
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla MarylandPosts: 701
    Really?

    Traffic cameras remove judgement from enforcement.

    For example, a cop might witness a situation where a car runs through an intersection that had just turned red. And also noticed that a semi was behind him, one foot from his bumper, and also ran the light.

    Now, that cop will ticket the semi and let the car go, as he ran the light to avoid causing a collision. IE: the cop analyzed the situation and made a judgement call.

    Traffic cameras do not do that. That car, in front of the semi, is a lawbreaker and will get a ticket. Which teaches to the driving public compliance with traffic law, NO MATTER THE CIRCUMSTANCE. Which means that the driver of the car will stop the next time, resulting in an accident and possible loss of life.

    This is just ONE example of various situations that require judgement calls by police... something traffic cameras cannot ever do.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,332
    There should be "compliance with traffic law, NO MATTER THE CIRCUMSTANCE."

    Per your example - the semi is the proximate cause of the crash because the driver followed the car too close resulting in property damage & maybe physical injury.

    IMO all semi vehicles should have a speed limit of 15 less than for cars because when they crash at higher speeds, they do more damage and the 53' box blocks all three lanes of the freeway. :mad:
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,793
    Well, in the example given, if the car had stopped short, the insurance company would have tried to deny the claim because the driver had the opportunity but failed to try to avoid an accident. :D

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,250
    edited January 2013
    After being criticized for having an LLD flash lights from far behind in a construction zone and pass me in the 2nd lane from right because I was in the 3rd lane and all in a total of 10-12 seconds...

    Here are some more area interstate drivers who didn't wanna slow down for anything, including a heavy snow flurry area that caused a whiteout and glazed the roadway. Two sets of accidents about 15-20 miles apart (approx) on two different interstates. 80 cars and 50 cars.

    http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/I-75-South-in-Middletown-Reopens-After-M- - - ulti/JNtflaHUDk-0PLm-93Wg9A.cspx

    http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/Woman-Killed-After-Multi-Car-Pileup-on-I- - - -275-near/1t2q9pb8HkKwSTKLhxQXAg.cspx

    The accidents reminded me of the LLDer driving through a dangerous construction area in midtown Dayton without slowing to a safer speed. There are always those drivers who will blast right through heavy rain and slow because nothing can slow them from their assigned speed and mission.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,785
    I agree with your arguments. Maybe we can all just keep dash cameras in our cars to fight the bad light cameras then. I am about to run one in mine. I don't have a problem with some cameras per se, but the justification for them needs to be proven to the public, and the revenue streams can't go to crooked pseudo-private sector contractors who are really just parasites on the taxpayer.

    I'd like to see the police do more work too, but I suspect the odds of that are low. Police unions make big labor unions look like schoolchildren.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,785
    Out on city streets today, didn't see anything too bad, but some annoyances. First - had a Corolla behind me for a couple miles - I turned 7 times I think - it NEVER signaled once. Saw a suit in a 5er slowly cut across 3 lanes, no signal. Saw a WRX with a loud exhaust going too fast, tailgated a Forester, then had to slam on its brakes and have a close call as traffic slowed. And while out in the old car, had a well kept blonde in a MDX with a phone in her hand tailgating me at 5 over - until the limit went from 30 to 40, which then slowed her down :confuse:
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    And while out in the old car, had a well kept blonde in a MDX with a phone in her hand tailgating me at 5 over - until the limit went from 30 to 40, which then slowed her down

    Ah yes. Beautiful and handsome people drive Acuras.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,620
    That is the primary reason I own 3 of them!

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (daughter stole that one), and 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again)

  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,785
    Well kept isn't always beautiful... :shades:

    Out this morning, I am thinking turn signals are a rarely ordered option on late model BMWs. Also saw a Rav4 with a hard spare tire cover and I think wind deflectors (which points to a certain demographic) stop for a green light, I don't know what that was about. And saw a younger woman in a red 2013 SL550 with a phone to her ear - should be a 5 figure fine for her.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,332
    That example has never happened in my 50+ years in the insurance business. Speculations can be wild. ;)
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,793
    edited January 2013
    How many "speculative" links re insurance companies trying to shift the blame onto the victim would you like? :shades:

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  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,332
    Amazing! I didn't represent GEICO, SAFECO, & a few other "national" companies. I learned early on that regional small carriers are a lot more reasonable. Two of the most pleasure to deal with were Oregon Mutual and Unigard. :) Other agent friends were proud of their appointments with Mutual of Enumclaw & Pemco. All decent to deal with in regards to claims and underwriting. ;)
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,793
    edited January 2013
    For the first time in forever I'm with a very small company mostly local to Michigan, but financially stable, as near as I can tell from a search at the insurance commission. Even have an agent for the first time in a decade.

    Since it's been 34 years since I've had to make a claim, I can't speak to the claims process.

    "Mutual of Enumclaw" sounded like a joke name so I looked it up. Never heard of that Washington city - bit ironic that the name the insurance company uses translates as "place of evil spirits". :D

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  • ...from a pair of (exceptionally bright) teenagers:
    They just got home from their D.C. trip, and both made the observation that folks on foot in the Washington/Baltimore area are very aggressive when crossing streets regardless of crosswalk, and don't bother looking much - they just go, often buried in newspaper and/or device.

    Wonder how their auto/pedestrian statistics compare to other metropolitan areas. Anybody remember 'stop, look & listen'?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,727
    An example of a "considerate" approach to enforcement of traffic laws?

    http://www.startribune.com/local/west/187600941.html?refer=y
  • That's nice, but I don't think it will make much of a difference. All drivers should know all the rules, not just informing the ones they happen to catch on their one mistake.

    From the article:
    In the first two weeks of the "In Focus" program, Edina police stopped about 20 drivers for obstructed vision. Long said most people lean out their windows and ask, "What did I do wrong?"

    Seriously? :confuse:
  • Tonight on the way home from work, I must have been moving too slow (40 in a 45) on a 2 lane road with mostly double yellow. The Grand Cherokee behind me flashed his lights about 10 times to get me to move faster. I should be thankful that he didn't flash 200 times to teach me a lesson. :P

    It's winter here, cold temperatures, snow, high winds. It's not like driving on dry pavement on a sunny summer day. The 4WD/AWD crowd wants to drive like it's summer, but they're the ones usually ending up in the ditch. :sick:
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