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Ford Freestyle - Taurus X

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Comments

  • freealfasfreealfas Posts: 652
    consider me corrected...

    that review is more than a little suprise then as what's the point of it with the fact teh FS is dead and the T-reX takes that corner of ford's cuv attack. sounds like someone at ford peed his wheaties as opposed to any real and impartial review of a cvt.
  • stmssstmss Posts: 206
    as for the market.... baaaahhhhh... must have traditional automatic....cannot wrap brain around the idea that anything else might be better.... must be like everyone else.

    Eaxctly - look how long it took to get rid of push rods. Nobody want to be a pioneer. There are only a few manufacturers (or maybe none now) left willing to try and pull the market.
  • volkovvolkov Posts: 1,302
    Remember, the Highlander Hybrid is still CVT. Maybe hybrid buyers are less traditional in their tastes.
  • Hybrid buyers have no choice. All hybrid vehicles have a CVT. The additional cost of a CVT is not a factor, because people are willing to spend thousands more than normal just to get a hybrid vehicle. Most of them have no idea what kind of transmission is in the darn thing.
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    "What better evidence do I need other than both are gone after only three years? "

    Correlation does not imply causation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

    Read the paragraph on the link.
  • freealfasfreealfas Posts: 652
    i'd argue the b****fest about it being underpowered was what didn't help sales as I'm sure a lot of people believe a lot of what they read so they discounted it. The cvt, while no rocket off the line once you realize the foot has to go TO THE FLOOR to get all the ponies going it goes quite well... nobobdy talked about that little point.

    ford didn't educate it's dealers about how to sell this thing yet alone it customer's and its advantages. Any customer who found/bought one had to go find the info in print or web, read it, and then pursue the test drive. the other scenario I suspect was a salesman trying to save a sale. He's watching an explorer person who just realized they weren't what they wanted so on the way to the exit the saelsman says oh by the way I have this over here... that was the biggest cause of this debacle...

    the cvt is not causing nissan, dodge, gm, toyota, audi, or any other manufacturer who uses it from selling its cars. maybe if they embraced the difference from the start as opposed to keeping it the red headed stepchild of the transmission division.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Posts: 1,106
    What better evidence do I need other than both are gone after only three years?

    You might try a course in logic. ;)
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Posts: 1,106
    The cvt, while no rocket off the line once you realize the foot has to go TO THE FLOOR to get all the ponies going it goes quite well... nobobdy talked about that little point.

    ford didn't educate it's dealers about how to sell this thing yet alone it customer's and its advantages


    Actually, my local dealer here DID encourage me to FLOOR the accelerator when I was driving it, to see what it could do.

    Reminder to self: don't buy any from there that have any miles on them. ;)

    I don't see how it's such a complicated subject: want to go faster? push on accelerator more. Pretty simple, really. :P
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,784
    "Hybrid buyers have no choice. All hybrid vehicles have a CVT. "

    I believe you are correct at this time, but hybrids do not require CVT. The Honda Insight and the Honda Civic hybrids were both available with stick shift as well as CVT. I don't think the MT is available any more on the Civic, however. The Insight is discontinued for 2008.
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    This is off topic but i'll finish it with this.

    All "FULL HYBRIDS" on the market right now use a CVT. The same one actually from Aisen.

    Honda and GM make a "Mild Hybrid" and therefore can use a different trans.

    Full Hybrid = full electric motor only launch and full regenerative braking.

    Mild hybrid = electric ASSIST launch and mild regenerative braking.

    This is a basic design difference. The Civic Hybrid is a great little car that gets really great MPG. But you can buy a new Ford Focus for about $10,000 less. That buys a lot of gas.

    Mark.
  • Re: CVT. When I was making my decision of whether to wait for the 08 or purchase an 07 Freestyle, I asked two independent mechanics what they thought of the CVT. Both advised against it and said to 'wait' until all the 'bugs' get worked out of them. I did my own research and actually was compelled to buy the 07 because I wanted to get the CVT before it was dumped in the change over. I am sure I am not the only one who has been advised this way.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Posts: 1,106
    I asked two independent mechanics what they thought of the CVT. Both advised against it and said to 'wait' until all the 'bugs' get worked out of them

    Mechanics always spew stuff like this. :P
  • Yes. They've only been around since the time of Michelangelo, who, by the way, designed the first one. Another couple of centuries, and they should have all those bugs worked out.

    "Mechanics" like these are another piece to the puzzle of why the American public don't seem to want a CVT in their car. Give Ford credit for trying it anyway.
  • northlakesnorthlakes Posts: 368
    My Freestyle and its "Collector's item CVT" is almost 3 years old. I expect when it reaches ten years, we will still be dialoging about "is the CVT reliable?" The CVT does not need to be perfect, it merely needs to be as reliable as the typical multi-speed automatic transmission (and some of those aren't so hot).

    No one is dialoging about how reliable the throttle-by-wire system is in the Freestyle / Taurus X. Isn't that also unproven? I think it is pretty good, personally. Many people didn't know they were driving without a mechanical throttle cable. In fact, many couldn't tell.

    Certain things become hot topics because people fear the unknown. If I didn't read in Automotive Week about the engineering that went into this CVT, and note that Ford has been using CVTs in Europe for years before the Freestyle was born, I might have been more concerned.

    Having driven a 6-speed Milan with 3.0 L V6, it is also soft off the line, and has similar gas mileage to the Freestyle. The Milan/Fusion is selling well. The number one comment I get on my Freestyle is not about the CVT, but, "What is it - I have never heard of it". :shades:
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Posts: 1,106
    I heard it was Nissan who was using all those unreliable CVT's. :P

    To me, the CVT seems far simpler than a traditional automatic transmission. So it would seem to me that it would proven even MORE reliable.
  • tim156tim156 Posts: 308
    Hey northlakes, good to see your still out there and staying above the fray of Freestyle bashing. I still love mine and everything about it, especially the CVT. I used my Yakima cross bars for the first time today to carry a new exterior door home. The clamps for the roof rails worked like a charm. The storm door fit inside the car with the seats down. This is such a great car!!
  • Yup, Michelangelo's time alright, 1490, but the artist/engineer/renaissance man was Leonardo da Vinci ;) Gotta keep these artists straight!
    I think the CVT was a BOLD MOVE! Too bad they bailed on it. I love it! I hope they bring it back.
  • ford didn't educate it's dealers about how to sell this thing yet alone it customer's and its advantages

    Actually, my local dealer here DID encourage me to FLOOR the accelerator when I was driving it, to see what it could do.

    Reminder to self: don't buy any from there that have any miles on them.

    My salesman actually demonstrated the unique quality of the CVT by throwing it into REVERSE at about 15 mph to show how it would just slow down all by itself, and then "change directions." Maybe so, but my brain couldn't handle it and I wouldn't buy anything off his lot! I wonder how many people he ran off with that demo?
  • Yes, of course.. it was da Vinci. Thanks for catching that. Please excuse me now. I must go and re-boot my brain.
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    The Floor It technique is actually documented by Ford.

    There is a detent button under the throttle that is only compressed when the pedal is floored.

    The purpose of the button is to tell the CVT to drop to the ratio that will give maximum power for acceleration.

    Remember there is no direct cable connection from the pedal to the throttle. Its all electronic.

    You need to think of the gas pedal as if it was a dimmer on an electric light. When you want full power you floor it. It is suppose to work that way.

    Welcome to the 21st century.

    Mark.
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Posts: 483
    I have not driven one yet, but am considering one used. The description of the CVT reminds me of the Buick Dynaflow of the 50/s/60's - if you floored it it would drop into its low range and take your head off. Also the Ford Overdrives of the 50's and later - had a button under the gas pedal - full throttle would kick it out of OD and into third direct.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,784
    "All "FULL HYBRIDS" on the market right now use a CVT. The same one actually from Aisen."

    Well, I didn't realize that Ford also used that transmission...

    I would also like to point out that you could buy a Ford Focus for about the same (or larger) $10000 than a Prius. I'm not sure what you have been reading for prices, but the Civic Hybrid can be had for around 20K.

    When comparing the two types of hybrids, it is also good to note that the Civic Hybrid can operate without the electric drive; the HSD type systems cannot work without the electric components...
  • freealfasfreealfas Posts: 652
    ford's freestyle cvt is not the aisin unit. it's a zf design out of germany that has parts imported to the batavia, ohio plant where it's built with both local and imported content. that is of course if they were still building it...

    the escape hybrid uses the aisin unit but the FS does not...
  • Hi folks, after thinking and comparing all crossovers on the market I was ready to buy Freestyle ( best fuel economy and I was not to concerned about engine power ). Hoped for the good deal for remaining 2007 models but the only available was dune pearl color with leather seating ( my wife hates it) plus price was more than new Taurus X with cloth seats. Test drove both vehicles and liked Taurus X more - nicer exterior,looked more quiet and of course more powerful. So baring in mind that money which I will most likely save on fuel I will most likely lose in resale value I opted for Taurus X. Of course possibility to chose color, DVD and all other options according to our family needs was pretty significant in our decision as well.
    Hope I made a right choice. Will post my impressions after first week of driving.
  • selooseloo Posts: 606
    What were the terms of your deal?
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    IT always amazes me when people will jump at a left over even if it isn't equipped the way they want, doesn't have the right color, and has been sitting on the lot for 8 months plus....

    The second most expensive item most people will buy and they get what they don't want because its a left over...and a few bucks less...

    Mark
  • freealfasfreealfas Posts: 652
    you right, because saving thousands of dollars on a purchase that is otherwise going to do nothing but depreciate the instant you sign the papers and drive it off the lot isn't ever a good idea... everyone picks their battles...
  • I am in Canada, and Freestyle 2007 with leather seats and comfort package + DVD was for 36.000CAD. While for the same Taurus X but with cloth seats I paid 35.000. Financing for Taurus X is 5.9% comparing to 0.6% for Freestyle, but I hope to pay it of pretty fast. And as I said we got color we wanted:)
  • freealfasfreealfas Posts: 652
    really suprised that they didn't do a better deal for you to get rid of the '07. We opted for the leather as the cloth has proven to be easy to stain so get some covers on there fast to keep them looking good. They might have changed it in the T-reX but you might want to check this out...

    I'm a little befuddled as to why you would not have opted for the '07 as the interest rate was hugely better and at .06% it wouldn't have mattered when you paid it off as you can't go get money out there much cheaper. Even with the $1k difference, the leather would have been worth it and the advantage of the rate is soooo much better. It would have been a wash at worst and the FS would have gotten you better mpg.

    regardless, glad to hear you are happy with your ride and color, but as stated I'm still a bit baffled... enjoy...
  • Well, as I said leather seats was the last thing my wife wanted to have in the car - you sweating sitting on them, slipping and plus they were ugly light tan color. No, we really do not like leather seats sorry...
    My calculations were that if I resale 2007 Freestyle in 5 years I will most likely get about 3.000-5.000 less than for 2008 Taurus X - which should make up for MGP difference.
    Maybe I am wrong but only time will tell...
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