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VW Touareg SUV

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  • clpurnellclpurnell Posts: 1,087
    anyway I am cross shopping them and am leaning heavily torwards the armada.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,134
    Or are you thinking you are in the Armada discussion?

    clpurnell "2004 Nissan Armada" Jul 22, 2003 2:57pm

    Bob's right about cross-shopping; you'll see it all around Town Hall. Makes you understand how someone can go to the dealer to check out an nice Passat wagon and leave with a Touareg.

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  • mudman2mudman2 Posts: 152
    T has been available for quite some time in Europe, its main market. The trade doubts dealerships being able to sell high $ VW's in conjunction with the others in the range, Audi better suited but competition with others in that range prohibits that. Dealers tend not to be combined as in US. Differentiation is high.

    Above reference to Car mag needs to be re-read by author its not testing cars in the same segment but cars of similar purported capability.

    Here is a RR test "in segment"
    http://motorvision.sport1.de/coremedia/generator/www.motorvision.- de/Rubriken/Videos/Motorvision/Videos/Vergleichstest/Paare/mv43_2- 03er_20Vergleich.html

    As usual its a duck shoot, buy what you like.
  • rollierollie Posts: 337
    You said, "...most people don't realize that Toyota's and Volvo's most reliable vehicles are powered by VW engines."

    Huh? There are no Volvos with VW engines. Their current inline engine family (which dates back to 1989 and is about to be replaced) was developed in a joint engineering effort with Porsche and they started with a blank piece of paper. Soon they will have a new engine family of inline engines and a Yamaha-designed V8.

    I'm not as up on Toyota products but I'd be surprised to find any significant number of Toyotas sold in the U.S. with VW engines (although I think I recently read something about a joint effort for future Corollas maybe?)

    Please let us know which Volvos and or Toyotas you think have VW engines.

    Thanks.

    -rollie
    rdollie@att.net
  • clpurnellclpurnell Posts: 1,087
    thats not it I think I hit message center instead of post after I composed the post. Oh well better luck next time :)
  • mml7mml7 Posts: 55
    rsholland wrote:
    The Armada offers refinement and sophistication not previously found in domestic SUVs.


    The Ford Expedition offers most if not all of the features of the Armada including options such as in-dash nav, DVD entertainment system, etc.

    I've been a member of Edmunds for 4 years or better. It never ceases to amaze me what people cross-shop. While a Touareg vs. Armada may seem outlandish to some, it's much more reasonable than some of the choices I've seen compared.

    I agree that people will cross-shop seemingly unrelated vehicles - heck, I once shopped a Mazda Protege against an Audi A4 to see if it gave me that 'BMW verve' for half price (it didn't). However, I disagree with your assessment that the Pathfinder Armada v. Touareg is more reasonable than some of the other choices. The Pathfinder, IMO, would be a more reasonable comparison.

    A recent edition of UK's CAR magazine just compared the Touareg to the all-new Range Rover (the RR won the off-road segment, BTW). I think the RR vs Touareg has as much validity as the Touareg vs. Armada. Yes, the RR is closer in size, but it is far more expensive.

    In the creation of the Touareg, VW set their sites on creating an SUV with the off-road capabilities of a Range Rover coupled with the on-road prowess of the BMW X-5. It is not surprising (IMO) that CAR mag would compare the two. Based on its published specs, it seems that the Armada is targeting the Ford Expedition/Chevy Suburban (Envoy?) audience, much the way Toyota targeted the F-series and Chevy Silverado with the Tundra.

    In anycase, when you do go out to compare the two, please don't come back here just to say, "The Touareg's too small" ;-)
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    I won't. :) If anything, I'll probably say the Armada is too large. I really prefer mid-size SUVs. In fact of all the full-size SUVs, I prefer the Tahoe the most. While somewhat crude by Touareg and Armada standards, it's the perfect blend of size and capability.

    As to the Expedition, which I have driven, it is a very impressive SUV. However, I don't think it will have the same appeal as the Armada, for the following reasons:

    • It's a Ford. Some people (not me) will disregard it just because of that.

    • Some people (not me) will not consider a domestic SUV, no matter how good it may be.

    • The Armada has a DOHC 5.6 all-alloy V8, and a 5-speed automatic, which the Ford can't match. Those engine features will probably push the right buttons for many import buyers.

    • I suspect switches and controls will be better thought out than in the Ford. However, at this moment, that's just a guess.

    As to the CAR road/off-road test, I admit to only have skimmed the article. So I don't want to leave the impression that what I wrote to be "absolute."

    I agree the Armada would most likely be compared to the Sequoia and Land Cruiser, as well as the Expedition and Tahoe/Suburban, but I still think some Touareg buyers might look at it too. As I said before, I certainly would if I were in that market.

    Bob
  • tomjavatomjava Posts: 136
    Currently MB is giving away ML. You can get a brand new ML350 for $35K.
  • clpurnellclpurnell Posts: 1,087
    My post that I lost related how the Armada offers the best of all the full size SUV's. It has the fold flat seats, nav, dvd and indy suspension of the ford. The Engine and Transmision (Titan reviews) have already said to be on Par with Chevy's 5.3/6.0 V8's and Dodge's Hemi. It should have build quality and reliability to rival Toyota. I think VW (bringing me back on topic) should offer a touareg xl/ext. make it 12 inches longer add a third row and put the v8 or v10 in it and price it at 35-45k. Then it would have a definite winner. I feel if vw wasn't building a mainstream suv (ie 27-35k subtract all the off road gizmos) they should have built something like I suggested above.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    with 3rd-row seating is an excellent suggestion. Maybe then they'll figure out how to also include a full-size spare. ;) My understanding is the upcoming Audi version will offer a 3rd-row seat, and stretched wheelbase.

    Speaking of full-size spare (again!), I was looking through my Porsche Cayanne brochure, and Cayanne accessory brochure, and noticed a full-size spare is available as an option for both the turbo and non-turbo models.

    Bob
  • mml7mml7 Posts: 55
    A full size spare is available and included in the Touareg...it's just of the inflatable variety (they do include an air compressor with each car).

    Increasing the wheelbase will likely lead to a degradation of handling qualities. As it currently stands, I'd bet that the Touareg could easily outhandle any full sized SUV as well as virtually any other mid-sized one.

    Has the Audi Pikes Peak been announced? or is it still considered a concept vehicle?
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,134
    You can check the buzz in 2005 Audi Pikes Peak.

    (hint - there's not much buzz!)

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  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    A full size spare is available and included in the Touareg...it's just of the inflatable variety (they do include an air compressor with each car).

    It's a temp tire, not a full-service, full-size tire. I want a traditional full-size spare on my SUV. I want it fully inflated, and I want to be able to put the now-flat full-size tire in the spare tire well.

    Bob
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,071
    I am pretty certain that such an exterior mounted full sized spare will soon be available.
  • prajapatiprajapati Posts: 33
    I think too much space is wasted under the hood in a Touareg with a V6 configuration. The T has to have a large engine compartment - large space under the hood - to accommodate all those Vxx (V8, v10, v12...V16, V64 whatever) engines and that probably puts a squeeze on internal passenger space. The performance of a V6 could be adequate for many shoppers but the rear seat space (35.6") may not. (And that's when the price point comes in picture!)

    Most other auto makers such as Honda, Nissan, Toyota, GM, Volvo, Lexus, Toyota etc. makes powerful V6 engines so often they don't (need to) offer other engine configuration - which helps them utilize space more efficiently. Honda Pilot is an excellent example.

    So, it's a Volkswagen SUV that doesn't what other SUVs do!

    - By a VW passat enthu.
  • dieselbreathdieselbreath Posts: 243
    RE:
    Huh? There are no Volvos with VW engines. Their current inline engine family (which dates back to 1989 and is about to be replaced) was developed in a joint engineering effort with Porsche and they started with a blank piece of paper. Soon they will have a new engine family of inline engines and a Yamaha-designed V8.

    I'm not as up on Toyota products but I'd be surprised to find any significant number of Toyotas sold in the U.S. with VW engines (although I think I recently read something about a joint effort for future Corollas maybe?)

    Please let us know which Volvos and or Toyotas you think have VW engines.
             _______________________________

    Have you ever seen a Volvo with a diesel engine?
    Before VW/Audi's V6 TDI VW built 3 models of diesels:
    - 4-cyl. diesels went into VW cars
    - 5-cyl. diesels went into Audi cars (& VW trucks)
    - 6-cyl. diesels went into Volvo cars
    But they share the same parts except block, crank, head, cam, injection unit.

    I don't think Toyota has the capability to actually design a diesel of their own.
    The Landcruiser diesel was an exact rip-off of the Hino truck engine ... right down to EVERY part being interchangable. (Great engine ... I had a LandCruiser diesel before my VW 1-ton truck)
    Until recently Toyota was the only major manufacturer not building their own twin-cam cylinder heads ... but I can't recall which motorcycle manufacturer builds their heads (its not Honda though! -- does anyone know if Toyota finally manufactures twin-cam heads?)

    But Toyota sells lots of cars in Europe and Asia with diesel engines. They made a deal with VW a few years back to purchase 5 million of VW's 1.9 liter TDI engines (like in the current Golf/Jetta/New Beetle/A4 etc.)

    I'm not sure if they've purchased them all yet or not.

    Regardless, the point is that the most reliable Volvos are the ones with Diesels, and those engines are built by VW. (I've owned Volvos before too ... my first wife actually got good at push-starting her gas-powered Volvo wagon in city traffic in the rain ... the only time it would stall and refuse to start was when it was raining hard)

    Here's a test of your memory .... which Chrysler model sold in the US in the 1980's was powered by a VW Golf engine?
    I bet lots of readers know this one (And have owned or driven one).
  • rollierollie Posts: 337
    Thanks for the response dieselbreath. Volvo's PREVIOUS diesel engine did have some VW influence as I recall but I don't think this one ever made it to the U.S.?

    Volvo's current diesel, which was introduced in the past couple of years, was developed by Volvo and has apparently garnered some acclaim in Europe. They still don't sell them here though (come to think of it I don't think anybody sells diesel option cars here anymore - the last I remember is the Mercedes e300 from a few years back.)

    Thanks.

    -rollie
    rdollie@att.net

    p.s. - Since we'e tossing out teasers - which Chrysler product sold in the 80s was powered by an engine derived from a Peugeot / Volvo design?
  • dieselbreathdieselbreath Posts: 243
    Have you seen the new Fed-Ex trucks (a tall, BIG van) with a Dodge van grille on the front?
    You've probably seen the identical ones with a Mercedes logo on the front and back.
    And you may have seen them a few years ago with a Freightliner name above the rear license plate.

    The Dodge grill is slapped on a unit imported from Benz (Daimler Chrysler) that Mercedes sells as the "Sprinter" van in Europe. Its built by VW and sold as the "LT2" by VW in Europe. (Mercedes also sells the VW Eurovan with their own engine, and that's why my wife's Eurovan has a Mercedes bolt-pattern -- Mercedes mags fit, but not VW/Audi)

    I suspect the Freightliner version was purchsed by Freightliner directly from VW. Frieghtliner has been using cabs built by VW of Brazil for many years.

    The joint VW-Mercedes van agreement was started in 1996 and has just been extended a further 8 years.

    I know this is somewhat off-topic, but I think that those concerned about "VW quality" should know that VW's quality is good enough for Chrysler, Volvo, Toyota, Mercedes and Freightliner trucks. Plus, most ambulances in Europe and the middle east are of the VW/Benz LT2/Sprinter variety. And motorhomes .......
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,134
    Those vans do look interesting, and there could be some unique customizing done with them.

    Dodge/Freightliner (Mercedes/Sprinter)

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  • dieselbreathdieselbreath Posts: 243
    That Chrysler product that you refer to ... did they have the V6 in that? I thought that most were the 4-cyl. engine, and it was the original French design I think ... only the V6 was the shared design from the 3 companies (with Peugot & Volvo).
    A prior post talked about a Volvo V6 designed with Porsche, but I think the poster was thinking of this 3-company collaboration which was the common engine for all high-end cars from Volvo and both French car-makers. The incentive was the result of the low-volumes of sales of cars with "big" V6 engines in Europe. The engineering costs couldn't be recovered off the sales of one brand.

    But its interesting to consider that Chrysler was using French and German engines back then.
  • dieselbreathdieselbreath Posts: 243
    Thanks for the link Steve!

    I didn't know they were selling them now.
    It will be really interesting to see what the camper conversion folks in the USA do with these!

    (Imagine starting with a roomy, practical vehicle that you can almost stand up in for a camper rather than a cramped commercial delivery van)
  • vwguildvwguild Posts: 1,620
    V8X will come with a full size spare mounted on the tailgate, skid plates, and other goodies...When? Q4...Frankly, I am just trying to get an inventory of the currently availables...

    Bill O'Neil will go crazy when he sees how well this truck does...40MPH offset and side impact...the IIHS will probably have to restructure all of their perameters...This thing is a tank, but with car level bumpers...never done before...
  • suvshopper4suvshopper4 Posts: 1,110
    Looks like you are right, rsholland.

    "Some may gripe that three rows of seats would better handle larger families with child safety seats. VW responds that a longer Touareg is not planned, but if you can wait a few years until the concept Audi Pikes Peak becomes reality, demands for more people capacity will be realized. The Pikes Peak, by the way, is built off the same platform as Touareg."

    Here's a link to the Touareg review, by Jim Mateja, Chicago Tribune, via today's Philadelphia Inquirer -

    http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/classifieds/automotive/6378295- - .htm
  • vwguildvwguild Posts: 1,620
    No...Touareg V8x...Model Code: 7LADM1
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,071
    That was the answer, I hope, to the question several posts back!
  • rollierollie Posts: 337
    Thanks for the reply. The Dodge Monaco/Eagle Premiere may have had a 4 banger to begin with (I don't remember those) but most had a refined version of the PRV (Peugeot-Renault-Volvo) V6 used in those brands of the era (it was a horrid engine for all involved.) To this date the PRV V6 is the only engine I've known Volvo indy garages to refust to touch (of course that was several years ago - now they're so old that maybe mechanics will take the risk of fixing one!)

    The Porsche influence is in Volvo's current engine family (inline 4,5,and 6 cylinders.) Volvo contracted Porsche for components of engine design and did the rest themselves. As I mentioned before, this engine family dates back to 1989 and is slated for replacement with a new inline engine family and Yamaha-designed V8 soon.

    Thanks.

    -rollie
    rdollie@att.net
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    Honda, GM, Ford, Toyota....put full size spares in SUV's for looks.....they don't care about weight or handling. One percent of SUV owners will take their SUV's offroad. A fraction of those SUV owners will ever take them actually offroad and lose a tire. For that, we have made precausions... Volkswagen puts full size spares in all of our sedans.

    The irony here is that the VW in most need of a full-size spare -- the Touareg -- doesn't get one. I applaud VW for putting a full-size spare in their cars.

    VW has "teased" the SUV crowd with a 6-speed tiptronic tranny, a dual-range transfer case, 7000+ towing, and yet no full-size spare. As much as I like the Touareg, not having a full-size spare is a deal-breaker for me, and for anybody who is serious about going off-road and/or towing.

    Bob
  • vwguildvwguild Posts: 1,620
    It bears noting that all Touaregs come with not only an Inflatable Spare, but a "Breakdown" set as well...

    So...if you are off road or back road and should happen to get a flat; it is repairable...if it is not, then the Inflatable Spare would be called into Service...

    Guidelines do not advise speeds in excess of 50MPH
    with either the repaired tire or the spare, by cannot imagine doing that in the bush in any event...
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