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Corvettes and all things about them

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  • gbjerkegbjerke Posts: 158
    NO, 49,300 is TERRIBLE!!!
    Looks like he is giving sticker minus rebate plus maybe a grand.
    '04's may be a bit higher but my '03 stickered for like 53,300 and it had all the options and was MY in color.
    There are dealers going 9-10k off from what I get from another board.
    C6's are about to hit the ground and even if the Z06 is at a premium vs. the standard C5, there are deep discounts available.
    Doubt I can post another site here so private me at gbjerke@aol.com and I'll be glad to direct you.
    As to performance, the Z06 is significantly quicker than the regular C5. 350 vs. 405 in horses and 150-200# lighter.
    Good story. I bought an '01 Z06 and my brother bought an '01 convert w/ automatic. Know that both of us are older than dirt. He was happy with the auto and 350 ponies. "More power than I ever need" were his words.
    Last summer I traded my '01 for an '03, the new one from a dealer near his home After picking it up I spent the night at his place. Next day he and I drove my new Z to visit my parents about 70 miles away. When heading back to his place I tossed him the keys and told him to drive. We hit some back roads; came to a stop sign; he started out mildly, I told him to stand on it. BINGO, he hit the rev limiter in first, hit second and banged the limiter again and then said, "H$&^ S&*@, what the hell was that?" He was awestruck at the power. We drove around a bit more but he said little.
    I left the next day and much to my surprise, a couple weeks later he emailed me saying he had traded his convert for a new Z06. No comparison in his mind.
    Mind you, we are not boy racers...old guys that really enjoy the rush of some old fashioned push rod V8 grunt.
    Quiet=nope
    Cushy ride=nope
    Stereo=marginal at best (although CD's sound fine)
    Fun Factor=INCREDIBLE!!!
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    The best deals I saw on '04's were $10k off msrp but those seem to have dried up. Through 4/30 every C5 a dealer sold added to how many C6 allocations they would get in the first year of production, discounts therefore gave them future profits. Now the final build out into June will be the last of what the dealers will have to show on the floor for some time. Many dealers have taken orders on the C6's they will get early on so those won't be on the floor to build traffic. My latest look at corvetteforum.com in the C5 sale section has some 5k off msrp with $3k rebate for only 8k off compared to last month at $8k off msrp and $2k rebate. FWIW
  • bigmike5bigmike5 Posts: 960
    Nice to find you here, like me nosing around for a Vette. Vettking had an ad in last week's Autoweek and I checked his site- he is just outside Detroit Metro Airport--$9-10K off 04 Z06's. Check it out. He is probably the #2 dealer in US for Vettes. Kerbeck in Atlantic City is biggest. Just a plane ticket from FLA.
  • low12slow12s Posts: 9
    Can anyone tell me if there is any difference in the body of the Z06 vs Reg vette in a C5 other than the shorter hardtop? I understand the chassis and engine difference.
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    The Z06 and convertible are the same set up with a trunk lid. The Vert has the bulk head which closes off the space, the Z06 is open unless you buy an aftermarket divider. The coupe has a hatchback with about the last foot beyond the glass being out of sight. There is a black cover that hangs from the hatch to keep things under the window out of view. From memory the coupe has 24 cubic feet of storage and the vert has much less, closer to 10 cu. ft., the Z06 is inbetween since it doesn't have the storage for the top. They all have the same basic interior behind the seats just with the bulkhead closed on the vert and open on the Z06 and Coupe.
       The only real difference is in the roof line and storage.
  • low12slow12s Posts: 9
    Get real - I can buy a brand new 04 for 4k less!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,957
    His post was deleted. No classified ads allowed in the forums.

    Shifty the Host

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  • gbjerkegbjerke Posts: 158
    Wait a minute here....I was about to advertise myself..."Old,grey haired dude; high mileage; body going south...any offer accepted....also owns a low mileage '03 Z06 which is NOT for sale!" You mean you have a problem with that?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,957
    well you're not going to get many responses I'm afraid :) And watch that "old grey-haired" stuff!

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  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    That's right, Shifty, make'em watch the 'gray haired' stuff!

    Just back from the track at Buttonwillow, CA and with my mostly stock coupe I think I even got the better of a guy in a new Z06, seat time does add up even for us gray beards ;). I have no doubt that the guy will be passing me easily when he sorts out being in a torque monster compared to his prior rides. Running on the track is something everyone in a performance car should try sometime, good instruction and a safe day at the track makes for a huge smile. :) Passing a Porsche or two is worth a grin as well ;).
  • gbjerkegbjerke Posts: 158
    Glad to hear there are other grey beards out there. There is something very positive about getting grey and still not acting your age and I see this as a good thing.
    You also hit it on the head about driving schools. What a rush...and where else can you take your car to the limits legally. Everybody should do it.
    Seat time also does do wonders. Last fall at Road America I had stopped in a line in the pitting area. 2 lanes and they let one car go at a time, 5-6 seconds later they let the next car go. I sat in the right lane and had the camcorder going (it's great to see/listen to now). I hear this "rumpa, rumpa, rumpa" coming up on my left. He pulls along side and it's a Viper with a HUGE wing and he had a cam that made thing impossible to idle at less than 11-1200+

     RPM's. WICKED is all I could think. He got held up a bit at the start so I went first thinking he would be up my tailpipe before turn 3. I keep checking my mirrors thru that first lap (4 miles) and do not see him.
    We finish our 30 minute session, my son is timing our session and I finished over 2 minutes ahead of him.
    That car should have eaten me up and no doubt it is a lot quicker. Fortunately I had about 30 days of driving schools there and I suspect this was his first time out. There is just SO much to learn at these schools and seat time does wonders...even for grey hairs!
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    At Sears Point a couple weeks ago there was a Cobra replica that was stunning, dark blue and white stripes, my favorite. Turns out he was running is our group but I hadn't seen him all day so we must have been running close on times. In the second to last session they opened up more passing zones and I caught him and about 9 other cars going into turn 6, a neat downhill sweeper with up hill WOT exit. I was legal to pass as I took the inside line over the hill and he was mid track but I held back, good thing as he cut to the apex and never saw me. At that point we were 4 in a train and he went outside after the track out and I went with him and passed him before turn 7, sounded very nice as he braked early and down shifted, I stayed on it to the inside and did a late brake and double apex turn 7 and 7a and left the pack in the mirrors through the esses. Too crowded compared to what I learned in but it was a fun lap. Also, there were plenty catching me in the corners that I would wave past at every straight, nice to follow someone who has a good line.
       After spending some of the last year on the track in both my own car and some class cars I now don't have to over think when it might help to do a quick shift or which gear would be better, mostly instinct to get it at least close to optimum. Even helps on the road where I can anticipate what's in front and not touch the brakes while slowing to pull into the fast lane to pass something going slower to the right. I don't normally travel in the fast lane, something I learned in Canada and the EU that I wish those here could learn.
       BTW, don't you find 30 minute sessions to be very long? We did 23 minutes last Friday and it was very nice, just over 10 laps on a 3 mile course. When we did 25 minutes in the Mazda forumla cars have to admit to getting tired as the session wound down. I've been on two 3 mile courses and that's lots of turns to remember, don't think I'm up to 4 miles courses yet. Enjoy!
  • gbjerkegbjerke Posts: 158
    30 minutes is only exhausting to me when on a strange track and also a shorter track.
    Road America is 4 miles and 14 turns but 3 of the turns are really non-turns. 3 long straights and I have been there so often, I don't even mind an hour long session.
    e.g., late April went to a Windy City BMW school. Friday is instructor day. They drop the green at 8 a.m. and the checkered does not come out til noon in order for the corner workers to get some lunch. Green comes out again at 1 p.m. and checkered out at 5 p.m.
    Obviously nobody goes the entire time but I did a couple 45-60 minute sessions. Reason I got to run is that I am in "instructor training"; so is my youngest son; eldest son already an instructor.
    INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!!!!! But boy, was I pooped at the end of the day.
    Unfamiliar tracks make me mentally gassed in short order...so do shorter tracks.
    Familiarity is key in my mind.
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    Long way from instructing here. That indicates that I've got lots more to experience and that doesn't surprise me in the least. Not sure how soon but I'm developing a thought about tying a vacation into track days around different parts of the country. Since I still have several tracks in So. Calif. that I need to see, Willow Springs, Streets of Willow, and California Speedway I don't think I'm in any hurry. Another factor I found useful going to a new track is video, helps a lot when you go into a turn and say, 'I've seen this before', and make the right shift and pick a visual cue to get it right. Enjoy the process as much as the result, I think instruction would be fun.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,957
    I thought the formula cars at the school were the toughest physically. They can get really violent in that cramped space and the g-forces really rattle your eyeballs sometimes.

    But if you are going to drive these big HP cars on the street, you had best get some seat time at the track; otherwise you'll join all the other Vipers in Hemmings Motor News with the word "damaged" in the advert!

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  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    I've never looked at Vipers, too harsh from what I've heard and given the price wasn't something I thought might work out. But now that you mention it I'll look. With the talk of 500hp in the C6 Z06 and a 600hp Blue Devil on tap a couple years out I'm guessing DC will have to do something about the Viper. Resale will also take a hit I'd guess as well. Just like the C5's are experiencing now.
       The formula cars do get violent when you find a limit you didn't expect. I had two incidents in the formula Mazda cars after going through the lower powered cars with just a few power slides that were really getting to be fun. Steering in the Mazda is much more precise and hence less forgiving, especially at speed, no place to relax or lose concentration until the motor is turned off. As I think I noted before they are also 10 to 15 mph average faster than the stock Vette, that jump from 74mph to 84 to 90 mph is a big step for someone just learning the process in a matter of days and got my attention about shortcomings in driving style real quick. And yes, got rattled in that coffin more than a few times, it takes a toll on the body.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,957
    I was black and blue at the end of the day, probably from over-trying due to stress. Also it's tight in there.

    RE: C5 vs. Viper. I think Vipers are a lot less refined and this will become immediately noticeable in a side by side drive.

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  • gbjerkegbjerke Posts: 158
    Agreed on the video...study that along with a map of the track and it does wonders.
    I went to Blackhawk Farms (about 20 minutes from me) last July. Short track but I had not been there for 4-5 years. I was a total disaster the first session out...screwed every corner up royally. I was ticked at myself. Second session was a vast improvement and I actually enjoyed the rest of the day.
    Unfortunately, I had a comcorder mounted in the first session. On first lap I came around the last corner headed to the front straight. Back end slipped out a bit and video contains my comments about "tires still cold..." Then I go blasting towards turn #1---come in WAY to hot and do a 180 at turn #1. How stupid!!!
    Anyway my son grabbed the tape and dubbed it onto a fresh VHS tape. He showed it to all when a dozen or so of us met at Road America last October. Sure as hell, all he dubbed was my 180 screw up...dubbed it 9-10 times back to back so all that is shown is my comment about tires being cold and then my 180. Hey, even I thought it was humorous, although embarrassing.
    Ya know, after all this, it is gratifying to know grey hairs can still have fun!!!
  • lkernlkern Posts: 1
    Hi All,

    Virgin poster here. I bough my first Vette on December 31st, an incredible blue LeMans Commemorative Edition 2004. Can I say that I am in love? (yes, with the car)

    I haven't seen much posting about this particular car, but I am curious what the aficionados on Corvettes think about this model. I come from a Corvette family and my parents have a few models that are their favorites. It took me til age 35 to afford one myself, and I have to say, out of all the cars I've driven (including BMW's and my hubby's Jag XK8), this is my favorite.

    What is the consensus on this car? Should I be garaging it instead of driving it and having fun (heaven forbid!). Is this a gimmick by Chevrolet, or a potential collectible?
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    There are hundreds if not several thousand Z16 paint units out on the road. From looking at the used Vette pricing for the past 3 years it might be worth a little more with low miles out in the future but I'm guessing not a lot. The Z06 Z16 version will have fewer units and might be worth more, but doubt that as well. I got a '95 with only 18k miles on it a year ago and only paid a few $k over what a higher miles unit would have gone for. Reason I got it was owner couldn't get anything from dealers on trade. With all the electronics to go wrong over time I'm guessing that old cars are going to have different value dynamics in the future than what we all think of today with the old mechanical cars out in the market today. Most good wrenches can keep a '63 Vette running pretty good on a low budget, try that with a '03 in 2043! Remember the chips that ran the first PC in 1981? That was only 23 years ago, I don't know if they are available today.
  • gbjerkegbjerke Posts: 158
    I'll chime in here. Agree with Starrow on limited increase in value over the non Z16 but also feel increased value is quite limited.
    Let me add, you like the Vette, enjoy driving it and wonder if you should make it a garage queen???
    NOT A CHANCE!!!!!!! You bought it for fun...use it!
    BTW, welcome to the forum.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,957
    Absolutely, drive it. There are thousands of regretful Corvette owners who thought their "special editions" of this and that car would be worth a lot more by never driving them but turns out that they all come out of the garage at the same time to sell and guess what...marketed saturated, price goes down. "Stashing" modern serially produced (assembly line) Corvettes for profit has turned out to be a complete bust.

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,159
    The car was designed and built and begs to be driven! My 2001 Z06 has 64k on it and my only regret is that I can not drive it more! :)

    The only issue I have had with it was the leaking differential, that for a series of boring reasons needed 3 times and 5/6 trips to fix.

    I do 15k oil and filter changes and the way it is running, I anticipate 200-300k from it. :)It also still gets 26/27 mpg at xxx cruising speed in the desert at 104 degrees with the AC going! I know if I go 65 mph under the same conditions we are talking 30/32 mpg! I love this car!
  • avolvofanavolvofan Posts: 358
    The C5 is definitely the more refined car. Vipers only recently were equipped with ABS. Vipers still do not have anything like Active Handling. The power differential can even be bridged if that is the objective. The list can go on, but I think my point is made.
  • ajf14ajf14 Posts: 1
    I'm considering purchasing 05 Corvette Coupe. Wanted one for years! Would like to know if this is: 1. Every day driving car.
        2. All year driving car.
        3. Relatively reliable for high-performance car. 4. Hi-maintenance.
    P.S. Live on the east coast..Weather can be brutal.
              I Love Vettes!!!
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    1. Yes. In good weather states it's fantastic and in what I'll call moderate weather the new stability system is amazing.
    2. Yes. In any weather I drive the car, although I've read about those who never let the car see damp roads. I use a Vette as a daily driver and probably will for years to come, but 30" of rain a year is not going to be much of an issue.
    3. Now you're talking, great reliability with one qwirk in batteries going bad if it sits for weeks at a time which some do.
    4. Only one experience but comfirmed by many others, all I've done is oil changes for 27k miles.
       The undercarriage clearance is just 3.5 inches and for me that is only a driveway issue, no snow here. Stability control, ABS and traction control would keep you very straight on icy or packed snow, lots of contact patch if you have the right tires for the systems to work with. You'll have to judge beyond the above. BTW, I've read about many who use them for daily driving in the cold north but also many more who put them in the garage all winter. YMMV
  • gbjerkegbjerke Posts: 158
    I'll chime in here also.
    Everyday driver----absolutely...except for your second question. Not an all weather car. It sucks in snow.
    As to your reliability question, my '01 was flawless as is my '03. Can't comment long term as my '01 had about 30k miles when I traded for the '03 which now has about 8k on the clock.
    Build quality/fit/finish is lacking compared to some Japanese/German models but that old fashioned push rod V8 puts more smiles on my face than anything else.
  • avolvofanavolvofan Posts: 358
    If you use A/S tires (like Michelin Pilot Sport A/S) in place of the OEM tires, you can drive the car in light snow. Heavy snow, I doubt it even with the A/S tires.
  • ultraman19ultraman19 Posts: 24
    I have owned seven vettes, the last a 2002 Z06 which I sold for top price in May'04($42,000).My game plan was to buy a C6--hopefully a new 500hp. Zo6. HOWEVER, with these overwhelming deep discounts, I'm beginning to think maybe a 2004 Z16.A wonderfully powerful car and probably could add some hp-torque improvement if desired.

    The problem: I have the money to almost pay cash for the 2004 Z16, but would struggle to get a C6.
    I must get my wife a(very) late model car by the end of the year,so I'm really buying two cars/suv's. I bought an LT-4 in "96 and somewhat regretted it.But again, the C5 is so nice and the Z06 is unbelievable--also I have not driven a Z16 with the new improvements. I appreciate the advice I need to decide by week's end.Thank you, ultraman19
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