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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • darnacdarnac Posts: 31
    I think the Volvo may be closer than the Subaru. I am very interested in the new Legacy but it is more sport than luxury and may not even be near luxury. No steering wheel audio controls. I know the IS300 does not either. Early rumours were the Legacy would not have a remote trunk release. The ride on the GT is going to be firmer than luxury. The GT has a bunch of quality thrown at it but they did not try to hard to convey an image of luxury. They are most certainly going for the sport crowd with 250 lb/ft of torque and lightened body panels. The GT may be my next car but I am getting it for the driving dynamics and not the cush. I currently drive an 02 MB C240 which is slow but very quiet and has near luxury features.
  • cwbarrettcwbarrett Posts: 40
    I have a 2002 Altima and ready to trade up. After reading these boards I took a 330IX stick for a test drive today and I don't understand all the praise. A stiff ride (all 330 have sport suspension acording to the sales guy) like that may be good for the track but it beats you up on New England roads. Yes the handling was tight but I didn't feel a strong connection with the road. The shifting was not overly smooth and it had the pickup of a 2001 Maxima. I felt the interior was very plain. I was really disappointed.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    First, a correction; not all 330 sedans have the sport suspension. The 330i has the sport suspension; the 330xi has the standard suspension.

    Relative to the "stiff ride", I guess it's all a matter of personal taste. The suspension on the 330xi that you drove is the exact same suspension that I had on my 1999 328i, and if anything, it was too soft. As such, I ordered the Sport Package on my next BMW, and once again, if anything, it's too soft. Oh, and by the way, I live in New England.

    Regarding not feeling connected to the road, well, with the standard 205/50 R17 All-Season tires that the "xi" comes with, I'm not too surprised. If you want to feel connected to the road, drive a 330i with the Sport Package (SP) or better yet, drive the 330i with the Performance Package (ZHP). FWIW, the SP will only make a marginal compromise in the ride of the car while improving the handling considerably. The ZHP will magnify that compromise/improvement considerably more.

    Regarding the interior, yes, BMWs do typically have simple and very functional interiors, some of us like them, some folks don't. The good news is that there is plenty of competition in that segment these days and you won't have to look too much further a field to find something that suits you better.

    Best Regards,
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Altima 2.5? Doesn't sound like you have the 3.5 SE as that's pretty well known for having a bone jarring ride. The interior is plain? Those who live in glasses houses...

    As for harsh, huh, I find my ZHP too soft.

    Guess that's why they make so many brands of cars. One man's harsh (your view of the 330i) is another man's mildly sport (my view of a standard 330i). ;)
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 16,892
    the upcoming legacy was brought up a while back and, consequently, disallowed by the host.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '08 Town&Country

  • fjm1fjm1 Posts: 137
    CWBarrett: I hear yah. FWIW I echo the previous statements. If your going in search of the "BMW soul" a 330ix isn't going to show you what driving enthusiasts rave about.

    As for "what's all the fuss" it can be hard to spot. The value added quotient for BMW's lies in the details. It takes a sharp eye to spot some of the over-engineering that goes into most BMW's. From great paint that will last the life of the car to premium tires on many of the sport models, and seats that are an ergonomic marvel, it all adds up.

    Don't get me wrong, I still think they're overpriced and unreliable, but I can see, and more importantly feel, why others choose to own these fine driving machines.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    legacy was passed over because it's a subaru. how many times are we going to have to go over this? you can make a 100k subaru but it's still a subaru and thus not part of a luxury brand.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 16,892
    relax. nobody was arguing (yet). i was just informing fedlawman of a past decision.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '08 Town&Country

  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    "you can make a 100k subaru but it's still a subaru and thus not part of a luxury brand."

    Go ahead snub your nose. Even the Porsche crowd is fuming that STi and Evo performance is comparable to a 911 Carrera. And the STi can beat the M3.

    You guys who want to see Subaru included here forget it... too much pedantic thinking. You will need a good lawyer, sympathetic judge, and probably an amendment to the US Constitution for this to happen.

  • speedracer3speedracer3 Posts: 650
    I see Blue's point here. Nobody is questioning Subaru's prowess to build sport sedans. They are great little cars that deliver incredible performace for the buck, no question. I think the difference is that Subaru is not a luxury car manufacturer. The STI and Evo are both rally cars, they the farthest thing from what we are talking about here "Entry-Level Luxury Sedans".
  • fjm1fjm1 Posts: 137
    When Saab re-badges the Subaru THEN we can talk about it. Not a millisecond before. ;-)

    Is the Saab line considered part of this discussion? 9-3 or 9-5?
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    In nearly every thread around here there is a wide tolerance for digression. It makes for stimulating uninhibited conversation. It's one thing when forum hosts get involved because this is a privately owned place and it is their prerogative, but getting tossed by another poster for questionable reasons is out of line.

    As far as I am concerned, if a car doesn't fall within the topic BUT COMPARES to these cars it should be discussed by default. It's only normal and natural.

    Furthermore, there's the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. And since this place is not a court of law, I think it would be better to adhere to the latter.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 16,892
    i you go back and read, you will find that the host DID step in. I don't like it either, but must abide by it nonetheless.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '08 Town&Country

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Pat's stepped in already. The Scoobie is just that, a Scoobie, not a luxury brand.

    And yeah an STi is blisteringly fast. So's a mustang SVT. Neither are luxury cars, neither belong in a legit comparo of luxury brands.

    If you think there should be a bang for the buck comparo discussion based on performance cars ranging from 30-45k, open that discussion. Then you can toss in the S2000, STi, CTS-V, M3, Mustang, etc, etc.

    Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans have been defined. The Scoobie isn't one.

    Heck, if I wanted just performance, i'd buy a 23k WRX and mod it like my brother-in-law's bro. He's got over 350 HP pumping through that ratty tin can econobox.
  • kahunahkahunah Posts: 448
    "When Saab re-badges the Subaru THEN we can talk..."

    Already done!
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    We already decided what we're talking about in this particular discussion - if we don't draw the line somewhere, we end up spending too much time talking about what should or should not be included. Everything is explained here: pat Mar 19, 2004 6:34pm

    Please let's not go through all of that all over again!

  • kahunahkahunah Posts: 448
    What do we do if BMW decides to rebadge a Subaru, just to keep up?! :-o
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    I'm surprised, as i thought everyone would rag on the subaru as a GM rebadge, but i've seen some positive articles, claiming the interior changes were very positive.

    I'd have liked it better had they switched to the saab engine.

    Out of all the cars i've driven in this topic, i still think i like the 9-5 the best as an overall price(otd price with rebates, etc )/package deal.

    It seems that the CTS did really well in the last road and track issue.

  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    kahunah... Don't forget that BMW makes the Mini, which includes the Cooper S. Don't think the Mini belongs on this forum, but a heck of an interesting car!
  • cwbarrettcwbarrett Posts: 40
    Thanks for the feedback and correction of what I was told. I'll try another test drive with a different set of options. I know I'm looking at a serious trade up from my Altima. Its a POS. Hopefully I'll find something comfortable and fun for my 40 mile commute.
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