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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Johnny,

    I love the TSX. I can't quite explain its appeal. I love the clean style, the nice, simple, legant cockpit but more importantly, I go ga-ga for the silky smoth 6 speed in those things. Like buddah. I've driven them a few times and I always dug the eager pull of the engine, the delight of keeping the car over 4k rpm with plenty of room to play.

    The 330i is a pretty different beast. The driving dynamics matched with the power won me over. If you feel like your TSX just isn't there for power, and if you'd like that special punch in corners of RWD then you'll enjoy the 330i. Really, the only way you'll know, go drive one. And let the salesguy know it's all about the handling. In other words don't let him take you on some anemic on surface street, then the freeway and back test drive. You want twists, turns, hills, switchbacks and plenty of opp to flog the car as god intended.

    Yes, BMWs on the west coast are everywhere! you can't swing a dead cat in any west coast major city without hitting a bimmer. Unfortunate but true - one my reason the TSX attracts me.

    If I hadn't run across a 330i with manual to drive in 03, I'm sure I woulda ended up in a TSX. I woulda been fairly happy too. Just yearned for more power and AWD/RWD.

    Knowing what I know now about my 330i would I lease again...hmmm. Most likely yes but I gotta say I'd dwell on it way more. I would probably still lease. I really wish I could own a BMW, but I simply don't think they're good cars. All this talk about the 08 M3 4 door has me excited and conflicted. You just can't lease an M3, it's a car you buy and keep. And the idea of buying a BMW troubles me. The idea of owning a lexus, infiniti, mazda, acura doesn't raise my eyebrow in the least.
  • gordonwdgordonwd Posts: 337
    Autoweek had a preview article this week on the new IS350, and compared it to the '06 330i (E90). They thought that the IS350's styling beat that of the E90 (they said it "pops" while the 330i merely "pings", or something like that). They also estimated a 0-60 time beating the 330i by a full second since the IS350 will have 300hp under the hood.

    In summary, they really liked this car, and it will be interesting when they get around to actually testing and comparing both in U.S. spec form.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Didn't even test the car, so the article is pretty worthless. We find out this week if Lexus is going to make the same mistake twice - releasing a so-called sports sedan without a manual (in the 350) at launch. No manual = lexus fumbles again.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Or do all of the latest "sport sedans"appear bulbous and heavy?

    The TL, G35, and CTS weigh between 3500 and 3600 lbs. The TL has a 108" wheelbase. The G35 at 112" and CTS at 113.5" have some minivans beat in wheelbase.

    Imagine how tough a competitor the Pontiac Aztek would be with the Buick Rendezvous 3.6L VVT engine. 108" wheelbase, 3770 lbs. curb weight, 245 HP, and it sleeps 4!

    I don't know how much they weigh, but I hope the E90 and IS250/350 come in around 3200 lbs.

    I guess I'll keep the TSX and hope someone eventually gets it right (how about a 2800 lb BMW 230i?).
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Roundel this month has the e90 330i without extras at over 3400 lbs.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    The european IS250 weighs over 3400 pounds. The IS350 might be close to 3500 pounds.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    “Is it me.. Or do all of the latest "sport sedans"appear bulbous and heavy?”

    Indeed, they all have porcine characteristics. I saw an E23 7-series (first generation) this morning near a current 530. The 7 actually looked smaller and was certainly lower. Maybe the Porsche Panamera will bring everyone back to their senses. You can bet it will be low slung the way a sport sedan should be. However, if the engine goes up front it may run into a problem…

    I think one of the problems is the new pedestrian safety regs which, among other things, require a certain amount of clearance between the hood and the engine. When the hood height gets raised, so does the rest of the car which may account for the slab-sidedness we’ve been seeing. It certainly appears as if the E90 and new IS conform to these regs, in addition to the other new generations.
  • lidialidia Posts: 1
    On the topic of pricings, I'd lilke to run a quote I got by you guys- It's on a pewter metallic 2005 C320, with the entertainment pkg, heated front seats, 6 disc cd changer, and the sunroof pkg. It's a demo with 1200 miles. They're willing to sell it to me for 28,000, and I was wondering if I should try to go lower. By the way, it's is Ohio.
    Thanks
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    IS350: 300+ hp, 275+ torque, 6 speed auto

    IS250: 200+ hp, 180+ torque
    RWD manual: ~$30,000 base
    RWD auto: ~$31,500 base
    AWD

    Sales target: 45,000 per year

    The IS is based on a modified version of the GS platform.

    http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id=20050323c
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Well, it seems that Lexus has gone and done it again, no manual transmission in the IS350. What's up with that? You'd think that they would have learned that lesson the last time around. Do they actually think that the only folks who buy cars with manual transmissions do so because they cannot afford an automatic, hence offering it only on the cheaper/smaller engined model? Yikes! Well, I guess that BMW is still safe from this potential "3-Series Beater" since this is a car that has a loud bark, just no bite.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Jeez, it's even worse that I thought. It appears that the IS250 will only be available in two pedal form as well (assuming that I interpreted the press release correctly).

    On the other hand, I suppose that "...a new 6-speed sequential manual transmission..." could be sort of like a motorcycle transmission, a real clutch pedal and some kind of a simple up/down gear shift arrangement. Hmmm, nah! That would be too wierd.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,059
    Just the AWD... the RWD 250 comes with six-speed stick standard..

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  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    See my edited post above...

    To my way of thinking, the wording in the press release is kind of ambiguous, and as such, I don't know how to interpret it.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,059
    Yeah.. I didn't catch that.. Something tells me that copy should have been proof-read...

    I'm guessing a regular old six-speed.. I think the copy boy got his sequentials mixed up between the stick and the automatic...

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  • ljwalters1ljwalters1 Posts: 294
    It is confusing b/c they use the qualifyer "sequential" manual. The spec sheet at the bottom clearly indicates manual transmission, but I guess there can be different interpretations or definitions of the word "manual." Right, Mr. Clinton?
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Standard in the IS 250, a new 6-speed sequential manual transmission is designed to take full advantage of its free-revving V6 engine. A new sequential-shift 6-speed automatic will also be offered in the IS 250 and will be standard in the IS 350 and IS 250 AWD.

    The press release is not clear. It says “6-speed sequential manual transmission” in the text (above) and 6 M/T in the table. To me the former means auto clutch sans torque converter such as SMG and DSG. What is it?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,059
    it is just a plain old manual..

    I guess that wraps it up, huh? ;-)

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  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    What is the percentage of Manuals sold compared to Automatics with sedans?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,059
    I bet it is under 5% in the U.S...

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  • cybersolcybersol Posts: 91
    "6-speed sequential manual transmission" is the same wording they use for the MR2 Spyder's SMG like transmission. My bet is that you won't be able to buy the new IS with a clutch pedal. Guess they really did want the IS to fit in more with the rest of the Lexus line this time.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,059
    Wouldn't that be a kick in the teeth.....?

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  • cybersolcybersol Posts: 91
    7,217 - Acura TL
    5,706 - Lexus ES
    5,430 - Cadillac CTS
    4,956 - BMW 3-Series Sedan
    4,901 - Mercedes-Benz C-Class
    4,851 - Infiniti G35 Sedan
    3,107 - Acura TSX
    2,811 - Audi A4 Sedan
    2,377 - Infiniti G35 Coupe
    1,038 - BMW 3-Series Coupe
    439 - Lexus IS

    In general, it looks like sales are much more even across the top 6 models than in the past. It should be interesting to see how the new 3-series and IS shake the segment up over the next year.

    Enjoy, cybersol
  • 151ranch151ranch Posts: 109
    as my 95 850T appears to be ready for the junkyard. I can probably go a few months if they can figure out the fuel delivery problem since the engine/tranny are still in good shape but at 190k it won't be long.

    My priorities are: manual transmission, speed, handling, safety and decent gas mileage. Price range is 40k or less, and am willing to buy late model used. DH says no Volvo, MB or VW. I am willing to give Volvo another chance.

    I test drove the 5 series (530) and the 3 series (330xi and 330) last week, but there was no manual tranny available!!? Was not impressed - the slush box made my Volvo AT seem great and both cars were rather loud - the 3 series in a good exhaust way, the 5 series in a bad road noise way. The manual shift option was incredibly slow. I will try to test drive again at another dealer (for the manual). P.S. I-drive stinks.

    Was hopeful about the TL but having a hard time getting over the sheer craziness of the Navi/Voice control system and the dash lights were very glaring at night. I am not THAT old and am even some what of a computer geek but someone needs to tell these car companies to stop with all the #%@) junk in the interior.

    So what's left:

    S70
    TSX
    Maxima
    GS
    CTS - well, I don't think DH will go for this either
    Wait for Mazdaspeed 6?
    Wait for new IS?
    pack the kids in the Mini Cooper S? (I did drive this, whoa is that fun)
    Subaru WRX
    Saab and Audi but dealers are 100 miles away

    What else is there?
  • bpointbpoint Posts: 2
    151ranch,

    Isn't the TL Navi system an option with the 6 speed MT?

    The TL also has a dash light dimmer. I set mine real low. It has two settings, one for headlights off, one for headlights on. There is also a Max button that quickly toggles it between the max setting and your setting. The dealers set it to the MAX setting for some reason.
  • After reading your post, it seems your first priority should be finding out what DH WILL go for !!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,059
    I'd look harder for a 3-series with a stick.. Big incentives on those right now, that will bring the price way down...

    Other than that, I'd go with the TSX..

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  • cybersolcybersol Posts: 91
    In addition to the ones you are looking at or waiting for, try these:

    Nissan Altima, Maxima
    Subaru Legacy GT
    Volvo S60 R, T5
    If there is an Infiniti dealer nearby, G35 6MT.

    I don't think the GS has a manual. If you would take a coupe in addition to a sedan then I could come up with more.

    Enjoy, cybersol
  • ljwalters1ljwalters1 Posts: 294
    I agree that you should check out the G35, Nissan Maxima & IS350, if it comes in stick. I am also confused by your TL negatives. I've got a TL and 1stly, I think the voice-navigation is fantastic, and love how its been integrated with the radio and cliamate control. I really think it's something everyone could appreciate. 2nd, you can get the car without it. 3rd, if you want navigation, but have some sort of problem with voice controls, you don't need to use them. There's regular manual controls for everything, too.

    Re dash lights, as someone else posted, they're adjustable.
  • squirtdadsquirtdad Posts: 22
    Subaru Legacy GT (sedan or wagon) is another option to look at. The 2005 is more upscale interior than previous models. Performance is in par or greater than most of wat you have listed. (250 hp/250 ftlbs forge with turbo 2.5 liter)
  • squirtdadsquirtdad Posts: 22
    and I forgot....the infinit G35 sedan (with 6 speed :) )
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