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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,667
    I don't care if it has a rocket booster under the hood.... Who would possibly pay that for an S40? Forget the TL, for $35K I could list at least ten other cars to buy instead of the S40.

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • scott1scott1 Posts: 50
    "For some reason, the German cars have side marker lights on either the body or the side mirror while Japanese and American luxury cars generally don't have this feature (a few do though)."

      I believe those side marker lights are required on cars sold in Europe. I toured the Corvette factory in Bowling Green Kentucky a few years back, and noticed several new Corvettes parked near the end of the line that had fender mounted side marker lights. The guide said those were for export, and those lights were needed.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    35k for a TL? Maybe with Navi. It's a 33k car without it. And I don't know how to outfit an s40 to hit 35k but I couldn't manage it on Carsdirect.
  • tasdisrtasdisr Posts: 25
    The prices I listed were sticker prices, not what the dealer
    was actually willing to sell the car for
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    I checked on the TL...it's a 33k car without navi. If you're comparing price-wise a navi equipped TL to an S40 without one that's not really apples and oranges.

    I managed to get an s40 to 36k by adding every option (radio pack with dvd navi). 36k for a car that's platform is the same as the Mazda3?!
  • dcwong1dcwong1 Posts: 54
    That's what I thought too about it being mandated by EU but my father drives a '96 Volvo 850T and it doesn't have the side marker lights. I would have that Volvo, touted as a very safe car, would have this extra safety feature.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    I've had Alfa Romeo's on my mind again lately (once you've owned one, they never really leave you) and ran across this video while surfing the Pacific Northwest Alfa Romeo Club website.

    Enjoy...

    http://www.nwalfaclub.com/features.html

    Pacific Raceways is a terrific road course, and the local Porsche, BMW, Audi, and Alfa Clubs hold track events throughout the year. Lucky for me, even Acura's are invited!

    For reference, the group is tracking out of turn 3(b) when the video begins.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    " The Mercedes C class is an entry lux sedan. A civic is a compact car weiging less while being smaller and having less equipment smaller engine. Of course a C class will trample a civic IT WEIGHS AS MUCH AS A G OR MORE. Hello a hummer will crush a blazer. No one said all cars are equal."

    You missed the point by a country mile. I said that the C or S40 would come out in accident better, not one between a C-Class and a Civic. Weight has very little to do with how safe the car is going to be. Tell that all the cops getting killed in their very heavy Crown Vics. How the car is designed is more important than how heavy it is. Why the H do you think anyone said this was a "tank battle"? Who said anything who is going to crush who? You're confused.

    " What's the big deal with 65 vs 45. Do you really know what's best for engineers designing cars. No.

    You're right I don't, butt companies like Volvo and Mercedes and Saab do. They've been doing just that for over 40 years, 50+ in the case of MB and Volvo.

    " It's easy to make tests have 65 mph as national standard but most cars would be demolished - while our class would benefit the rest of the smaller 75 cars on the market would be scrap after an offset frontal at that speed."

    Sorry but this makes no sense to me. Problem is you're stuck on that test lab stuff. An offset crash isn't the only type of accident you can have.

    I'm not knocking the G35, but Nissan has been very skimpy with their cars to get them to the market right now and there is no way I'll believe that they're just as safe as Volvo, Saab or Mercedes…these companies while they've had their problems in other areas have never compromised on safety. Now Nissan is supposed to have matched them in an area they weren't even an expert in during the time where they're cutting cost at every possible area. Right. GM cars feel solid too, doesn't mean they are safe. The crash-test failing Acura RL feels solid too.

    M
  • chrisbothchrisboth Posts: 493
    "but Nissan has been very skimpy with their cars to get them to the market right now and there is no way I'll believe that they're just as safe as Volvo, Saab or Mercedes"

    Skimpy my @&^. The cars on the line right now have nissan at the height of the industry on just about every front including product quality.

    Profit in an oversupplied industry is just one indication that "rushing to market" is hogwash. The g35 certainly wasn't rushed to market nor was the FX the Z or the upcoming M45. You don't own the toughest class for 2 years running and put the competition into a tailspin with "rushed to market" cars and inferior design.

    As for safety you know as much as I do about what the G will do...nada so until we KNOW your speculation is as meaninglss as mine. I know marketing won't save you neither will past research by some truly good companies that made safety a priority - typically euro makers. If that makes you feel good about paying a premium for a volvo or bmw then pay away.
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Posts: 650
    I managed to get an s40 to 36k by adding every option (radio pack with dvd navi). 36k for a car that's platform is the same as the Mazda3?!

    Well, it goes both ways, one could say the TL is a $33K Honda Accord. Or a ES330 is a $35K Toyota Camry. Although, the S40 is priced in the same range as its competitors, it order to beat them, it needed to be priced lower. IMO that's where Volvo failed.
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Posts: 650
    Just a little tidbit. Aside from it's glowing crash ratings here in N. America, the G35 ( Nissan Skyline 350GT) has scored one of the highest safety ratings in Japanese crash tests. It is considered one of the safest cars in Japan. No doubt I'd feel safe in one.

    Here's the link (the 250GT is tested here)

    http://www.nasva.go.jp/assess/html2002e/as125.html
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,667
    IMHO, the S40 doesn't compete with the TL.. It seems a class below in size and mission.. I would think the S60 is the TL competitor in Volvo's line..

    I see the competition as...

    A4 1.8
    325i
    9-3
    TSX
    IS300 (sorta)
    Honda Accord EX (depending on trim line)
    Nissan Altima
    Toyota Camry

    The last three are a little larger than the S40, but I'm sure are looked at as viable options as the S40 price climbs over $30K

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "If that makes you feel good about paying a premium for a volvo or bmw then pay away."

    Yes, it does make me feel good.
  • chrisbothchrisboth Posts: 493
    at least everyone feels good whether it's to pay or not to pay...
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    "The cars on the line right now have nissan at the height of the industry on just
    about every front including product quality."


    Bull. They've just sent 20 engineers to America to fix quality problems. Nissan also scored low on some recent surveys.

    Nobody said the G35 or FX were rushed to the market, but the 350Z has a cardboard interior if there ever was one in a car. It is downright worse than some GM cars in interior quality.

    "As for safety you know as much as I do about what the G will do...nada so until we KNOW your speculation is as meaninglss as mine."

    Partially correct. I don't know about the G35 past the crash test scores, but I do know who used to and still does place emphasis on safety and it isn't Nissan.

    M
  • chrisbothchrisboth Posts: 493
    Not sure about the american made ones but the japanese made cars seem fine. MAny people pay many many mopre dollars and get some problems. There is Lexus and then there is everyone else. Take look at some other surveys like how much emotion about the brand or car image influenced the decision making. It was just noted that Nissan scored at the top despite some minor and major (crank sensor recall) quality issues. People expect problems from thier cars if they are from mercedes or bmw - its part of the experience like it or not. Not everyone wants a camary so we deal with a rattle or a greasy window. My dealer has fixed my minor annoyances well and I haven't minded the 2-3 little issues since the CAR ROCKS so much.

    AS far as safety ~ your objective statments and cultish faithfulness to marketing aside, unless you can point to engineering or proven technolgy in the supposed superior car from sweden or germany then I don't think the emotion of your willingness to pay a premium for a slower less agile car dont really matter. As for the G, nothing but a stellar safety record so far. Keep on paying the premium my friend. I'll be upgrading the ski boat every time i buy a car with the extra money i save. As for the 350 Z comments? WHATEVER. It's a carerra chaser for 27k. It looks great to many MANY people who buy it in droves and praise it like a religious figure.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "It's a carerra chaser for 27k."

    Not even close.
  • billyperksbillyperks Posts: 449
    "People expect problems from thier cars if they are from mercedes or bmw - its part of the experience like it or not".

    I don't know about you, but when I shell out 30+K, I dont even want to hear the word PROBLEMS for the next seven or so years.

    All I want to do is regular maintenance service.

    Good luck with the expected problems with the G.
  • peterismepeterisme Posts: 68
    I made a bet with my wife: if I got all A last year in my B school study, I will go a head to buy the car I want. Now I won, but I have trouble picking out the best Sport Sedan.

    Since I am in B school, I know I should ask expert before the decision. You guys should be the ones who provide such expertise.

    My budget: <=$35K

    Priority: 1. Safety; 2. Reliability, 3. Performance (yeah, I only have one life, and I don&#146;t want to spend too much of my life at the service department at dealer&#146;s)

    Constrain: No Japanese Cars (Just a personal preference, I know They make good cars, )

    Can you guys give me some suggestion?

    Thanks a lot!

    Peter
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    the only way to do this is not to own a car.
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