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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,936
    It isn't the cars... It is the driver.. :P

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  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Yep, I would think that has a lot to do with it. However I still think the tire wear would differ considerably depending on cars and tires.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,936
    No doubt...

    But, his self-described driving style would trash any set of tires in a year..

    You are right about the set-up on a 3-series.. It just eats rear tires.... But, I wouldn't change a thing...

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  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    Here is CRs report on the TLs driving experience by professional drivers:

    The TL's firm ride is well-controlled, with good isolation from bumps. The highway ride is steady, and the cabin is very quiet. The wide turning circle is one of the few negatives. The Acura feels taut and responsive in cornering, with well-contained body lean. The nicely weighted steering is communicative and quick. In emergency-handling tests, the TL demonstrated good tire grip and cornering balance, and it proved secure in our avoidance maneuver, where it posted a quick 52.5-mph. Powered by a smooth 270-hp, 3.2-liter V6, the TL is noticeably quicker than many of its competitors. Even with such high horsepower, the car was largely devoid of torque steer, a tendency for the front wheels to briefly pull the vehicle off its intended line under strong acceleration (common in front-wheel-drive cars). The engine is coupled with a smooth and responsive five-speed automatic transmission. The TL gets a respectable 23 mpg overall and meets Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle standards, which means that it is 50 percent cleaner than the average 2004 model. Braking was very good. :P
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Blueguy… curious, which other cars have you owned?

    Last 3 cars: 01 Jetta 1.8t (13k average for tires), 03 Protege ES (I got about 16k out of my first set), 03 330i.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    You are correct sir.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Well I guess it depends on where you set your standard, which is one reason I do my own research (ie test drives) and don't depend on magazines, biased or unbiased for information.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    How often do you go through brakes? Anyway, I think I have a good idea how you drive. I would also guess that you don't eat quiche.

    ;-)
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    How often do you go through brakes? Anyway, I think I have a good idea how you drive. I would also guess that you don't eat quiche.

    my brakes last a long time. just sold my protege and they said I had 60% of my pads left and the car had 26k miles on it. My bimmer's brakes are still original too and I've got almost 30k miles on it. just tires...I go through them faster than robert downey jr can finish off a kilo of coke.

    And I do eat quiche. My two year old niece loves that stuff. :D
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    ". Any good scientific experiment tries to eliminate all other variables aside from what you are trying to compare. I may be wrong, but I'm guessing the cars were modified to have, basically, similar power/weight ratios, no?"

    No. I explained otherwise, and so did the article i posted links to.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,936
    ... wears out the brakes.. I wear out the tires...

    She goes around corners at 10 MPH.. I go around them at whatever speed I happen to be driving when I get to them.. (her description).

    Look, Ma!! No brakes!!

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  • jsamsonjsamson Posts: 23
    "Well I guess it depends on where you set your standard"

    That's exactly right, ive often mentioned car handling can be just as subjective as judging a car's exterior. Ive never driven a TL but it makes sense it was a CR top pick, it has great reliability, a nearly unbeatable standard features package, 270 hp engine, but ultimately it depends where a driver sets his/her standard when it comes to picking a car.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    handling is quite subjective. the magazines praise the cts yet i feel it's floaty and dips wildly in corners. to each his own...
  • draknaddraknad Posts: 39
    This one service, plus the brake job would have been around $900....

    $900? sounds like you got into an accident.
    that's a ridiculus price, even if it is covered under warranty.
    there's no justification for that
  • ljwalters1ljwalters1 Posts: 294
    MY SUBJECTIVE OPINION IS THAT THE TL HANDLES GREAT!!!!! :D I can take turns and on- and off-ramps at a pretty quick speed wihtout feeling body roll or that the tires might lose grip. I'm not a speedster, but I love testing the handling in my TL.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,936
    Well... they don't have to justify it... Labor rates are $96/hr..

    It isn't any different at Lexus, Infiniti, Mercedes, etc...

    Well.. a little different.. At those dealers, they present you with a bill when you pick up the car... At my dealer, I give the keys to the loaner, they hand me a printout and say "Have a great day!!"

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  • draknaddraknad Posts: 39
    $900. brake change and regular service..
    $96/hr, so it costs $900 to change brake+service with lexus, infiniti, mercedes?
    see wrong point.
    you might as well walk into the dealer with sign "I like to be ripped off, please charge me $900" for brake change. haha
    ( still under warranty, does not justify the $ cost)
    and please "eat" my tires as a suspension design flaw.
    it's good you owners like to accept these service/maintenance charges.
    But it's a "___" so it's very worth it. haha

    $900 brake change+service

    I'm happy owners are paying that, good for the owners.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,936
    Don't feed the trolls....

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  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Yeah, I gotta learn that one day. :(
  • jsamsonjsamson Posts: 23
    handling is quite subjective. the magazines praise the cts yet i feel it's floaty and dips wildly in corners. to each his own...

    That's exactly my point, I drove the CTS as well and have a contrasting opinion , i thought the handling/steering was quite taut and predictable, very 3 series like in handling i thought.
  • odessitodessit Posts: 140
    900 for a brake is kind of high by itself. What is included in the service (besides brake job)? Is it just visual inspection of thing or it is actual change of spark plugs, wires, etc.?
  • draknaddraknad Posts: 39
    not sure what was included, but I think it'd be interesting to know how service and maintenance works.

    -thedrak
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    The TL handles just fine, just how fast do you want to take turns maniac? :P
  • wco81wco81 Posts: 495
    Sounds like you should only lease BMWs (and probably all the other German makes), not own them.

    And that $900 bill is probably not as high as repairs and maintenance jobs go.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    What do they mean by "Entrey-Level" ?
  • lmacmillmacmil Posts: 1,756
    The low end of a luxury manufacturer's offerings. E.g, Infiniti G series but not the M series, BMW 3 series but not the 5 or 7 series, Audi A3 or A4 but not A6 or A8, etc.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    Yeah, I know, but I think these "lower end" cars are often superior to the higher end cars. For example, the RL is not $15,000 better than the TL. In fact, I think the TL is superior in fit and finish, looks etc. The BMW 3 series is better than the 5 and 7. And the infiinity G35 coupe is the best car they offer. :P
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    think it all you want, these cars are the introductory models for the line-up. the 3 series is basically the toyota echo of the bmw line up.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    I think the term "entry-level" is a demeaning at best. I bought a TL because I like the car, not that I couldn't afford an RL. From the side, the RL looks exactly like an Accord. I am considering buying an Infinity, and the G35 coupe is the only Infinity I am considering, I think the M is big fat cluncker. The "entry-level" cars tend to be much more sporty.

    toyota echo ?
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    All he is saying is that the 3-Series is the bottom of the BMW line just as the Echo is the bottom of the Toyota line.

    "Entry-level" may be a "demeaning" term to you, but it's a fairly widespread term used to describe a level that is a cut above average and perhaps a cut below the highest level, at least (in this case) in terms of cost. I don't believe that most folks see it as a demeaning term.

    You chose the TL and you are very happy with your choice even though, as you say, you could have purchased something more expensive. The reality is that the the TL competes with vehicles in a "class" that is a cut below the more expensive offerings of the same manufacturers. That is not an insult, it's just a reality.

    :shades:
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