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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    Yes, i've read such articles, yet i still think i'd have a greater perception of more than 25% hp increase.

    Of course, there's a lot of factors: torque@rpm, weight, gearing, etc.

    dave
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    BMW's published number is also 6.1 seconds.
  • wco81wco81 Posts: 495
    A3 has slower published times. But it felt plenty fast. Faster than needed for most types of city driving around here, with all the radar around (including photo radar).
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    Each car mag have different numbers, C and D, have very fast numbers, most under 6.
  • I wonder if they changed the gearing from the e45 to the e90 (The e45 was a bit short compared to its competitors). Does anyone know the e45 0-60? How short is the G35 gearing? It seemed a bit high when I drove it.
  • ctlctl Posts: 123
    Entry-Level: "segment of cars cost around 30K USD"

    It is describing the cars, not the drivers. If you have so much problem about it, need to ask yourself why :)

    Walton the W-Mart founder drove an old pickup. He didn't need to put "affordability" into words, he didn't worry about it.

    BTW, objectively, an average one can "afford" a car means the cost of the car is about x% of his overall asset. That x can vary by person, can be 0.00001 for Walton, but better don't be over 30.

    Car doesn't make a person, to make it short.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    Oh I agree 100% with you. As it was pointed out to me, it is merely a marketing ploy and I agree with that point too. Unfortunately, Wal-Mart employees can't even afford an old pickup. :mad:
  • nyrefugeenyrefugee Posts: 35
    "How short is the G35 gearing? It seemed a bit high when I drove it."

    If you mean gear ratios, I think the G35 gearing is pretty short. Driving on the freeway at 80 mph (my usual highway cruise speed) in sixth gear you get 2.5 - 3 k rpms. I can even drive at 40 mph in sixth gear on a relatively flat road without having the engine complain.

    I kind of wished 6th gear was taller so I could get better gas mileage cruising on the freeway. Oh well. Of course this shorter gearing is better for performance because you can use more gears when accelerating. Also a shorter sixth gear means you dont have to shift down if you want to pass some one on the freeeway. So I think this is a better choice after all.

    But the G is definately not one of those german cars with a super tall sixth gear made for cruising at 100 mph.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Also a shorter sixth gear means you dont have to shift down if you want to pass some one on the freeeway. So I think this is a better choice after all.

    but that's precisely WHY I buy a manual. I want to shift! VW and Mazda think along those "you need passing power in top gear" lines too and it makes me crazy mad because then I get lousy mileage on road trips in their cars.

    Give me a really, really tall 6th. If at 80 I still need more power to pass, I'll fall back to 4th and take off. I still get over 30 mpg running 85-90 all day in my BMW but I still wish the car's 6th gear was even taller.

    I bought a manual to control the car...:D
  • nyrefugeenyrefugee Posts: 35
    You have a point, it almost seems that the Japanese engineers assumed that americans follow speed limits when deciding on the g35 gearing (big mistake). So if you want max fuel efficiency on the highway you will probably have to drive the speed limit (around 65 mph).

    But as I said above there is a bright side -- more shifting fun at lower speeds.
  • lmacmillmacmil Posts: 1,756
    For some reason (better top gear acceleration I suppose), Infinitis are geared lower than pretty much all the competition. Look at any rpm at 60 mph figures in the car mags, the the G35 and M35 are spinning about 500 rpm higher than the competition. I think this is what kills the highway mileage compared to say a TL.
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    "For some reason (better top gear acceleration I suppose), Infinitis are geared lower than pretty much all the competition."

    I'm sure their engineers decided more oomph when you mash the pedal down would sell more cars than an extra 2-3 mpg.

    Personally, <30mpg highway & <20 city will make me move on, but i know i'm not like most americans. ;)
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,606
    The MPG was one of the several reasons I chose the TL over the G35x. To have to pay for Premium gas and get (relatively) poor mpg was just too much for my frugal New England psyche to take!

    A1 service on Wednesday. I've asked dealer to investigate the intermittent disappearing temperature/memory settings and a rattle when the sunroof is in the "vent" position. That's it so far.

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • nyrefugeenyrefugee Posts: 35
    "Personally, <30mpg highway & <20 city will make me move on, but i know i'm not like most americans. "

    Then you should probably go for the audi A4 2l turbo. Its mileage is pretty damn good for a 200hp car. I almost got it, but in the end could not resist the performance of the g35.
  • laydilaydi Posts: 9
    NOTE: I also posted this on the "Help Me Choose" board but I wanted to post it here because I am looking for a performance sedan: *Also* I live in Chicago and when it comes to RWD vs. AWD, I don't know which one is better for the GS430 and just FYI, I have a longer term goal set on the '07 GS but that's when I have a larger income! :D

    ----
    Greetings! I'm a former owner of a '00 ES300 and '02 ES300. I *absolutely* loved the prestige of driving a Lexus. The color combo of the '00 was graphite/black and the '02 was gold/cream. I definitely prefer the black interior and I have quite honestly been spoiled with the luxury convenience features like heated seats, passenger control climate, moonroof, speed controlled volume, etc. The '02 had a Nav system, rain sensor wipers, and more bells and whistles than I could imagine but the radical change in body style reminded me too much of a Camry and I would prefer s distinct style in my vehicle. (I actually walked up to a Camry on several occasions thinking it was mine).

    So now I'm looking at the '02 or '03 GS430 (I like the luxury sport sedan combo), the '04 G35 and the '04 or '05 Acura TL. I'm hearing great things about the Nav system in the TL which is not a need but a definite desire. Some of the things that I have not experienced but would like to have are:
    -Bluetooth capability (I didn't have a Bluetooth capable phone when I had the '02)
    -Steering wheel controls for radio/cd
    -DVD/CD Player
    -Voice commands for Nav
    -Traffic guidance for Nav
    (I hear these last 2 items are features of the TL's nav system)

    Oh and my price range is low 30's. Yes, I know I want the world. (But what's a single female with no children to do these days besides splurge on herself before she's unable to do so?) I'm not sure I want to give up driving a Lex but I just might have to. Any thoughts?
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    " Then you should probably go for the audi A4 2l turbo. Its mileage is pretty damn good for a 200hp car."

    I would also say that the a4 doesn't *feel* like a 200 hp car, at least not to me. It *feels* darn strong.

    Fortunately, there are several choices for good mileage and good power: a4, tl, 330, s40t5, 9-3.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    I never really think of prestige when researching cars. I just saw the TL on the street and thought to myself, that is one very nice looking car!!!

    Test drive a TL, and gun it on the freeway. Plus the TL has lots of lux going for it. :P
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Greetings! I'm a former owner of a '00 ES300 and '02 ES300. I *absolutely* loved the prestige of driving a Lexus...(I actually walked up to a Camry on several occasions thinking it was mine).


    Hmm, so much for prestige if you're mistaking your own car for a Camry.

    So now I'm looking at the '02 or '03 GS430 (I like the luxury sport sedan combo), the '04 G35 and the '04 or '05 Acura TL. I'm hearing great things about the Nav system in the TL which is not a need but a definite desire. Some of the things that I have not experienced but would like to have are:

    Acura hands down has the best navi system. It makes the equivalent items in infiniti/bmw/lexus look like tinker toys.

    -Bluetooth capability (I didn't have a Bluetooth capable phone when I had the '02)
    -Steering wheel controls for radio/cd


    common in acura. steering wheel controls are in the g but no bluetooth.

    -DVD/CD Player

    To watch? If that's what you mean it'll be aftermarket.

    -Voice commands for Nav
    Acura.

    -Traffic guidance for Nav
    05/06 Acura RL is the only one I know of with this feature.

    Oh and my price range is low 30's.

    Acura TL. done. Go find one, drive it and if you like it buy it. Acura TSX offers most of the same features for much less - under 30k. Better car imho too.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    If she has been driving a Lex, a TSX might be too much of a harsh ride, and so would a BMW. TL has a smoother ride, and and tons of power. I wouldn't say a TSX is a better car, just different. However, for a sporty ride, the TSX is a fantastic value. It's like getting a BMW for 10k less, at least.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    t's like getting a BMW for 10k less, at least.

    The TSX is a good car. But it's nothing like a BMW. Better tranny, better workmanship than a 3 by a long shot. But also less powerful, rides too high, has a 4 cylinder and it's got power going to the wrong wheels.

    If i had to spend 26k on a car, the TSX is a strong contender. If I've got 35k, the 330i wins without a fight.
  • jamesspotjamesspot Posts: 57
    Better interior, more features, stronger power, luxurious ride, incredible stereo, equal reliability, plenty of room. If I was cruising on a cross-country drive, that's the car to drive at the $30k price point. If you are a high performance driver, there are better choices, but the TL is the one MY wife would want as you are both steeped in luxury and driving a good-looking machine. (I personally like the silver with the black leather interior for this car).
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    "If she has been driving a Lex, a TSX might be too much of a harsh ride, and so would a BMW. TL has a smoother ride, and and tons of power."

    Hm. If you mean the 330i with the sport package, then maybe. It has 18 inch rims. Otherwise, i don't think the 3 is harsher than the TL.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    My wife chose the silver with black interior. :P But let's be honest here, the car OTD is going to be at least 35k for a Navi. I love my wifes TL, she can't get me out of it.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    She mentioned 04s...private party on an 04 with navi and 20000 miles is 28k.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    Good point, but 20,000 miles on a one year old car is a lot. It did seem that she was willing to buy used lux-sports cars. I was just thinking that if she drove a TL, I think she would be impressed.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    An 04 TL is nearly two model years old. 06s are two months away...so 24-30k miles is normal.
  • ljwalters1ljwalters1 Posts: 294
    I'll have to weigh in on the side of the TL - here's some general comments (no particular order), and I include a little scoring system (+1 for 1st, 0 for 2nd, -1 for 3rd) that's really just for my own fun.:

    1. RIDE QUALITY. As far as ride quality, I'd guess you prefer a cushier, luxurious ride to a sporty, tight ride. The used GS430 your considering would probably have the best ride, but with all the high-tech features you want, the TL would probably be a good compromise between comfort, price and features. The G35 has the most sporty, probably least forgiving ride of the 3. (GS 1; TL 0; G35 -1)

    2. STATUS. I think Acura has the least status among Lexus, Infiniti and Acura. I think Lexus is #1 of those 3, so the GS has it here, too. (GS 2; TL -1; G35 -1)

    3. FEATURES. The used GS isn't going to be the most technologically advanced. Of the 3 cars you might be considering, the TL has it hands down, with all the features you mentioned except for traffic navigation (only in the RL & maybe the Infiniti M) and a video player. You'll also have to say goodbye to rain-sensing wipers (something I sorely miss from my last car). The voice-recognition of the TL's nav and its integration with climate control and the radio is utterly amazing!!! I cannot understate this (you can be driving and just verbally tell the car to change the temp, pass temp only, direct air through particular vents, etc. You can scroll through your presets, and when there's nothing on the radio, direct the cd player to play any particular track on any particular disc - it's awesome!!!!). As an aside, the Infiniti M, which is out of your price range and might be too rough a ride, has the best technological features of any car I know. If it came with a manual transmission, it'd be my dream car. Another bonus to the TLs nav is that it's a touch-screen, which makes entering info manually much easier than otherwise, and you can enter info while in motion. My parents Lexus does not allow this. I don't know about the G35s nav, but, in general, I think the G35 is the least technically advanced of the 3, but a new G would have it over an onlder Lexus, I think. (GS 1; TL 0; G35 -1)

    PRICE. I'm not checking the classifieds for you, but I know that to get all the tech features you want, it'll add much more to the GS, since it'll probably need to be aftermarket, if it can be done at all, and it'll cost the least extra on the TL b/c it's all included, except the nav, which is pretty common. Depending on the changes made on the '06 models, you might be willing to save even more $$$ by buying a used TL or G35. (GS 0; TL 1; G35 -1)

    Anyway, my scoring has the TL ontop (no surprise - it's what I drive), but disregarding the scoring for a sec, you need to discount the BMW & G35 b/c they value sportiness over luxury, and you seem to prefer luxury. The GS has it in luxurious ride and prestige; the TL has it in technology. I think your choice comes down to those two, and will depend on which you value more.

    PS - I think a guy will be more impressed by a TL than a GS. As a single gal, that might play into things a bit.
  • perunestperunest Posts: 42
    The past two season Bill Auberlin won the Touring car national championship in a BMW 325. This year he's down in cumulative points because he's only raced a few events, since he is also racing in other type events. He won the last Touring car race at Lime Rock Park a few weeks ago.
    Comparing these highly tuned machines is not an indicator of which is faster. Each car has weight added (or taken out) based on how well they did in the previous race. If you win two races in a row, you get weight added each time. They intentionally try to level the field to make it competitive for the fans.
    Front wheel drive or rear wheel drive is a personal preferance, but more people who like to drive spiritedly choose rear wheel drive (and a manual transmission). The current issue of Automobile Magazine compares what they call the best sports sedans from three continents. They selected the Cadillac CTV from the US, the BMW 330i from Europe, and the Infiniti G35 from Asia. They made a point about leaving out a very good Acura TL, because it was not rear wheel drive and therefore not a "true sports sedan". I've owned alot of cars over the years, including a number of front wheel drive models. Nothing could touch my two Miatas for handling (the Miata has 6 consecutive national championships in autocross). I currently drive a 2005 Infiniti G35 6 speed and a 2002 BMW Z3 3.0i 5 speed roadster. Rear wheel drive has a different feel to it. You either like it or you don't.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    Excuse my ignorence, but is the Miata a FWD or RWD?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    hmm, it's only been out for over 15 years. RWD.
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