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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "While I never had any objections to the prior versions of the BMW 3, 5 or 7 (I found them to be clean, handsome and functional designs."

    I agree exactly with that assessment. But I also love the new looks. They are very striking and have a great presence. The M6 especially is a head turner, the new M6 convertible. /me wants

    The new designs have taken some bad press. But in the real world, where people actually vote with their wallets, the designs actually seemed to be like. It amazes me when I talk to people there are some who didn't like the old, but love the new.

    In the end though, we all agree that styling is subjective.
  • keith61keith61 Posts: 6
    I would like your opinion on purchasing a Certified 2004 Lexus ES 330.
    The car has 16,000 miles and the asking price is $29,990 from our local Lexus dealership. I do not know alot about buying a pre-owned car could any of you give me some do's and dont's?
    Thanks!!
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,602
    I, too, like the 6. Except for the Bangle trunk. IMHO, inelegant, cheap and tacked on looking. An afterthought. Ruins the clean lines. The spartan interiors of the 5 and 6 don't particularly work for me, either.

    Another theory is that with the BMW the looks play second fiddle to other factors such as the overall driving balance of the car (or the "prestige" of the blue and white propellor!?). Maybe a potential buyer has to close his eyes when approaching the car ( :) ), but once behind the wheel, it becomes stunningly beautiful and worthy of a few of the buyer's hard earned $$$!

    I wouldn't throw a 6 out of my garage for eating crackers, either!

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    I'm glad to see you also posted this in our dedicated Lexus ES 300/ES 350 discussion - that's a better place than here for your question.
  • potemkinpotemkin Posts: 196
    "When did Subaru become a luxury car brand?"

    When they started stickering them over $30k. ;)
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    once again to remind everyone that we are specifically discussing the 6 vehicles listed at the top of this page. I realize the name of the discussion invites the inclusion of vehicles not listed, but the reality is that we are restricted to those six because of the interlinking of this discussion with articles on the main site related to only those six vehicles.

    We have been through this many times before so let me try to head off what has happened in the past - this reality cannot be changed at this time.

    And we will not go where we've gone before, which is getting mired in how that's not right, and what vehicles should be added because NONE OF THIS CAN BE CHANGED. :-)

    So I would really appreciate everyone's cooperation in keeping this conversation primarily focused on the BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G35, Acura TL, Lexus IS 300, Mercedes-Benz C-Class and Cadillac CTS.

    As always, anyone who want to compare other vehicles is welcome to look at the main Sedans Comparisons list for a suitable topic - if one doesn't exist, feel free to fire up a new one.

    Thanks.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Unless you are in Montana, you are not supposed to be going 90+

    To many of us the law is merely a suggestion. :P

    I know on long drives - like SF to San Diego or Las Vegas to San Diego I tend to average over 95 mph (and get over 30 mpg to boot). Nothing quite like flying down the empty I-15 at 1 am doing 130. :D It's in these trips (and the jaunts on backroad late at night) that I realize how much I love my 330i.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Another theory is that with the BMW the looks play second fiddle to other factors such as the overall driving balance of the car (or the "prestige" of the blue and white propellor!?). Maybe a potential buyer has to close his eyes when approaching the car ( ), but once behind the wheel, it becomes stunningly beautiful and worthy of a few of the buyer's hard earned $$$!

    Remember you do drive the car from the inside. :P How it looks on the outside isn't relative to how it feels on the road.

    Well, unless I'm the typical customer of an idiot salesmen who told me on a test drive to "look at your reflection in the buildings as we pass them. see how cool you look." Gotta wonder if people actually fall for that.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    >I?Agree. The "prestige" of BMW for a lot of people definitely worth the extra money. Besides, just think what those chicks think if you tell them you drive a Bimmer! Remember the saying, you get what you pay for.

    Zero prestige. It's a BMW, dude, not a Ferrari/Lambo.

    The only girls impressed by a BMW are bumpkins and golddiggers.

    :confuse: prestige...rofl
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    I agree, the G35 coupe and the BMW 3 series are very nice looking cars.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Well, unless I'm the typical customer of an idiot salesmen who told me on a test drive to "look at your reflection in the buildings as we pass them. see how cool you look." Gotta wonder if people actually fall for that."

    As usual you have me rolling on the floor.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    I agree, there are so many BMWs on the street the "badge" means nothing. Actually the G35 coupe and the TL might be more impressive to women because they are far less commen than the BMW. :P
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Frisco, I assume you're kidding. Guys who depend on cars to meet women... :confuse:
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    LOL, I didn't bring it up, someone else did. :cry:

    However, it doesn't hurt to pick up a date with a nice looking car. Besides I am married and don't date other women that much ;)
  • ctsangctsang Posts: 237
    You need to go to the high end luxury forum. They don't even consider Infinity as a luxury brand, my friend. Again, you get what you pay for. A lot of people still don't know what Infinity or Acura is. There are a lot of people who aspire to dirve MB and BMW. If you don't, that's your or your chick's problem.
  • ctsangctsang Posts: 237
    Looks like even with price over $30K, Subaru still doesn't belong here as a luxury brand. All Hummers are over $30K, but it is not considered a luxury brand.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,244
    many years ago through a shopping mall parking lot in Scottsdale in his fully tricked-out Corvette, I've lost what respect I used to have for (some) women.

    If I hadn't been there, I wouldn't have believed it. But I was. Driving a hot car appears to work in ways that I never knew about then, or care about now, come to it. It's an anthropoligy thing.

    I enjoy driving, at high speed, in very rural areas. No people around. Just like I like it.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    There are a lot of people who aspire to dirve MB and BMW.

    Aspire? How can you asprie to get a car that leases for $250 a month? Most of the SUVs in my parking lot at work cost as much or more than my 330i.

    If you don't, that's your or your chick's problem.

    Problem? LOL. I have a BMW. It's perception. Obviously, where you're from a BMW/MB is still considered something different or foreign. Around here a BMW is no different than a Toyonda.
  • hey blueguy, my 330i will arrive at the dealership on monday(they had to truck from an outta state dealer). I cant help but kinda regret not ordering it. I wanted the sport package and bmw assist instead of ZPP but that would take 10 weeks. So i just went with the Zpp instead. So my question is- does the Sport package actually makes the car handle better??? thanks
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    German cars can only hope to be as good as a G35 coupe, especially BMW. The G35 298hp coupe is a BMW killer no doubt.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Yeah to bad it doesn't handle as good and goobles gas. Seems to me the G35 is trying to aspire to be a BMW. :)
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    The G35 coupe does handle as good as the BMW, but does gobble gas, with a 298hp engine, that wipes out most BMWs except the mucho expensive M, what do you expect. If you want to save on gas, buy a Prius. :P
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Actually it doesn't wipe out anything. HP is not the be all and end all. My guess the 3 manual would beat it on the laps, just like in the R/T comparo. It may get to the red light .0001 seconds faster than a 3er, but that's about it.

    Now if you want to say the 3 is more expensive I'll agree. But the two cars have different missions in life. You may be one of the rare few people that actually enjoys paying $3/gallon. :)
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    HP does mean a lot, 0-60, 1/4 mile etc. the G wipes out the the BMW 3. I don't mind paying $3 a gallon in California, it's only a few hundred a year, big deal, are you so poor you can't afford that? If so, buy a Civic or Prius. :P Buy the way, those are two great cars.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    HP does mean a lot, 0-60, 1/4 mile etc. the G wipes out the the BMW 3. I don't mind paying $3 a gallon in California, it's only a few hundred a year, big deal, are you so poor you can't afford that? If so, buy a Civic or Prius. Buy the way, those are two great cars.

    If I were you I'd apologize for that poor statement. It's totally uncalled for and it will get your post yanked.

    There's nothing sensible about wanting to blow $3 every 18 miles.

    And regardless of your peacock attitude the G35 in autox hasn't revealed itself to be the dominant force you claim here.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Saigon,

    Only you can tell if the ZPP v. ZSP v. ZHP makes the difference for you. I found the standard and zpp cars to be a little puffy. The Sport Package 330i was fun. ZHP more fun. In the end, even the ZHP is too soft for my style of driving.

    What was wrong with waiting 10 weeks? You've waited your whole life...what's 70 measely days?
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Okay. Show me a comparo where the G wipes out the 3. I can show you one where the 3 wipes the G.

    I just ran across this...just for a break in the conversation:

    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=29&article_id=9902
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    Unless you are a Host, I am not apoligizing for anything. I am not saying that the G35 is dominant, just a better value than the BMW, I think that's what is really bothering you. Additionally, if you can afford a 35k car, poor mileage isn't going to force you into the poor house. Buying a G35 298hp coupe is not a sensible buy, you are buying a great sporty car that gobbles gas, you go in knowing that.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "I am not saying that the G35 is dominant, just a better value than the BMW,"

    I agree it's more expensive, but everybodys definition of value is different. And that's what this conversation is about. Yes gas price shouldn't matter, but the fact is with a smaller engine and less hp and power, the 3 series holds it's own against the G. Most magazines consider the new 3 the new benchmark.

    However, having said that, there are real reasons for looking at other manufacturers. BMW has always been the drivers benchmark, which is one reason I am interested in them. I don't care for the other stuff such as DVD-A, nav etc, give me a well tuned creamy smooth vehicle that almost drives me and I am happy.

    I wouldn't throw the G, TL or any other car out of my garage if one landed inside. I just wouldn't pay for them.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    Great post!!!

    Please, don't get me wrong, I love BMWs, and I am considering the 330ci, and the M3, but I just can't justify the cost over the G35 coupe, even though I can afford it. For the same reason I an considering MB, but I can't get over CRs low reliability ratings for the MB. By the way, CR does recommend the BMW 3 series.
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