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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    The TL is such a great car on so many levels; good gas mileage, very low emissions, great looking inside and out, great sound system, great accelaration etc. :)
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    My god, that can't be right. If it is, Lexus might have found a convert on just that element.

    Don't canadians use kilometers/metric system? anyone confirm this is correct. Seriously, if it's true I'm astounded.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    The entire world uses the metric system. :P
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Not true. Sorry to burst your bubble.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Judging from some of the previous G35 posts, my guess would be in heavy stop and go traffic 19 would be an optimistic figure.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    I should have qualified my statement, almost all of the world uses the metric system. And all of the scientific world uses the metric system. :P
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    At cruising speed 65-85 the car could be geared so the engine spins at low rpms and shuts down two cylinders, I can see getting decent gas mileage. But if you are using all of those horses racing BMWs and attempting to beat anything that moves there is no way gas mileage will be anything short of lousy.

    My next question is: Does the EPA do the testing for Canadian vehicles?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    I'm rather blown away at the idea of 37 mpg in a car sporting 300+ HP and no hybrid electrical motors. Seriously, that mileage raises my interest in the IS250/350. Again, that's assuming those numbers reflect american gallons and miles.

    Still no manual, but I'm even more determined to drive it now.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    You betcha. That's why I was wondering what the testing procedure was and if the EPA does the testing for our friends north of the border?

    The gas mileage sounds absolutely astounding. But, my guess is when it gets to the US it will be sporting similiar mileage to the Avalon.

    edit - I did some digging and found the following: Check the advisory on page 28, text noted below.

    CAUTION ON USING U.S. FUEL ECONOMY DATA
    U.S. Web sites list fuel economy data in miles per U.S.
    gallon and use different sales data based on the U.S.
    vehicle market. Fuel efficiency ratings in Canada and the
    U.S. are similar but cannot be directly compared.


    http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/transportation/tools/fuel-consumption-guide/pdf/fuel-consumption-gu- - - ide-2005.pdf

    Page 33 lists the 330i manual as 24/39. That says it all. :)
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    Canada uses imperial gallons, which is 20% more than the U.S. gallon.

    Most people I know (whether 3 series, TL, GS, G35, Accord V6) get less than EPA, especially in the city. Maybe my friends and relatives are just hard drivers.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    KD, that says it all. ;)
  • From lexus.ca for the IS350:

    Fuel Consumption - City/Highway L/100km 10.8/7.7
    Fuel Consumption - City/Highway mpg 26/37

    I believe the L/100km figures translate to about 22 American mpg city, 30.5 highway.

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    I like the 2006 MB C-class line-up. No more four-bangers. A nice array of V6 engine choices.

    C230: 2.5 V6, 201 hp, $29,975
    C280: 3.0 V6, 228 hp, $33,725
    C350: 3.5 V6, 268 hp, $38,325

    I bet MB changes the designation to C250, C300, and C350 with the next C-class.

    Also, I wouldn't mind seeing the 228 hp 3.0 V6 make its way into the E class (E300) to go up against the 525i.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,244
    Canada USED to use the Imperial gallon, but went metric in the '70s.

    The ratio is 5 Imperial to 6 U.S., because the fluid ounces are slightly different -- U.S. gallon is 4 x 32 fl oz quarts & Imperial is 4 x 40 (different) fl oz quarts.

    All moot, because outside of Liberia & the U.S., gasoline is sold by the litre & fuel mileage is usually expressed in litres/100 km. However, converting isn't exactly rocket science.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    Imperial gallons sounds so royal! I'd rather my car got Imperial mpg than US mpg. :P But you make a good point in explaining the difference.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    What do you think about the latest comparo? The 3 is still on top despite the horsepower advantage of the IS. The Lexus fanatics are "fuming" about this and proclaiming BMW is dead (HP ain't everything and the rags are biased!). The BMW fanatics don't seem to notice. (In additition, it seems to be noted the back seat of the IS 350 is a little cramped, we'll see if Lexus takes the kind of heat BMW did for having a "cramped" back-seat in it's E46 lineup)

    Does the rumored BMW 3.5L twin-turbo future engine change anything?
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    The TL back seats are great! :P

    Additionally, all these cars are fantastics, even the BMW's LOL. :P
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,596
    Comparo's are fun and informative. There is only one way to determine the "best" car: Buy it.

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • dfc3dfc3 Posts: 87
    OK, I hope the "roving host" is indulgent with me - since I'm new - and getting the hang of this. I posted this on over on the Mercedes boards (because that's where I started in research) - but after scanning for a while, found all the other boards - and THIS one is where I should have posted. Anyway... looking back, this board has a good balanced sense for these type of questions:

    Right now, I drive a 2004 Volvo S60 T5. I'm trying to decide whether I want to purchase one of the new Mercedes-Benz C-class vehicles to replace it. The new engine/transmission combo for the 2006 C-class line is making me give it serious consideration. I'm trying to find out if there's enough benefit to make the move. I'd welcome all opinions!

    The tough part is that the Volvo S60 T5 is perfectly fine. For some quick comparisons (the first number is the Volvo figure, the second is the 2006 MB C280):

    Cylinders: 5 vs. 6
    HP: 208 vs. 228 (2.5L vs. 3.0L)
    Torque: 236 ft lbs 1500 RPM vs. 221 ft lbs 2700 RPM (the Volvo is turbocharged...)

    I like the Volvo's ride, power, and smoothness. What I don't like is that the S60 is not quite as compact. The turning radius for the S60 is 38.7" (the C280 touts 35.3" - which would be better for me in the area I live). The width of the S60 is 71.4" vs. the C280's 68.0".

    Yet these are minor points - given my car is only 2 years old.

    Thoughts? Opinions? Other facts?

    TIA.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    ..... The 3 is still on top despite the horsepower advantage of the IS. The Lexus fanatics are "fuming" about this and proclaiming BMW is dead (HP ain't everything and the rags are biased!). The BMW fanatics don't seem to notice....

    Really ? There are two fallacies in this post. (1) That Lexus fanatics are *fuming*, and (2) that BMW fanatics don't seem to notice....

    1) Lexus fanatics are NOT fuming, rather we recognize the vast superiority of the IS350 over the 330i. The numbers speak for themselves, or do you want me to post them for ya ? The tester Bimmer couldn't even make it through the test mechanically.... breaking down under its own weight :)

    2) And Bimmer fans are slowly but surely waking up to the new C&D review. Just wait until it is widely available on newstands. I don't think most BMW officianados ever imagined an entry level Lexus to do a 5.1s 0-60, and a 13.7s @ 104mph to the 1/4-mile ??? An e90 cannot even approach these numbers. And that is an auto tranny IS350 going against a 6MT 330i. Just imagine the IS with a 6MT ?????? And the difference b/w these two cars, according to C&D ? 1 pt separating 1st from 2nd !!! That is a virtual tie. Maybe BMW needs to be more concerned that teir tester car proved to be unreliable when faced with its peers.

    WIll be interesting to see how BMW reacts to this new challenge from Lexus. It should be a lotta fun for consumers, eh ?
  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    If you think new LS is a challenge to BMW, let it be so, BMW fans don't think so.

    You need to stay in line next to G35 owners, bragging about HP and 0-60. 20 year olds buy HP and 0-60. If you would know how to drive, I assume you don't according to your post, you would not brag about those numbers. What important is driving dynamics, look at Skidpad and slalom. If I would want a boat with lots of HP, I would go with Charger.

    If anything IS can go against MB, If you ask me, it's another bust for Lexus.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I second what pp said. HP isn't everything BMW is not dead in spite of certain self-proclaimed prognostications to the contrary.

    As a matter of fact they are just warming up, lost the set but will win the match. I think Lexus needs to be concerned that again they may not have gotten *it* right, yet again in spite of hp numbers. BMW has always delivered a one, two punch.

    One point, from a car that has 40 hp less. HP isn't everything.

    I do agree it will be fun for consumers.
  • taxesquiretaxesquire Posts: 681
    I haven't driven either car, but your comments (I like the Volvo's ride, power, and smoothness. What I don't like is that the S60 is not quite as compact. The turning radius for the S60 is 38.7" (the C280 touts 35.3" - which would be better for me in the area I live) make me think you should also consider the Volvo S40T.

    It's faster than your S60, which you said is fast enough, but it's size is more similar to the Mercedes. It might be the perfect combo for you. I test drove an S40, and think I would've been happy with it, but it was too small. Also, while your post doesn't discuss luxury features, if you're a luxury-feature kinda guy, the S40 might fall short there, too.

    Don't know if this'll work, but I ran a quick comparison of the S60 S40 & C280 on the edmunds website. Here's the link (again, once I close out, I don't kow if this link will work or not, and you might need to copy & paste the link nto your browser but...)
    http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison;jsessionid=DJh84cTNwJx6TC- FGRdzp1gPGbCBqT8Jq1yz0YhPHfRsZBkDzvtwW!191769469?styleid=100552480&styleid=100557208&style- - - id=100552437&maxvehicles=5&refid=&op=3&tab=features

    Just tried the link - it works (copy & paste, don't click on the 1st part), but you have to re-add the S40.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Let's see if this is clickable: 2006 Volvo S60 2.5T vs. 2006 Mercedes-Benz C-Class C280.

    Okay, it works for me - however YMMV, no promises here! :-D :-D
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Sticking your head in the sand here guys., but I can understand when people don't like to deal with reality.... That's what the shrink will tell you... The IS brings a total package to the table. The new IS350 is sleek, elegantly styled (as opposed to the muted Bangled e90), better interior ergonomics (as opposed to the spartan interior of the e90), better braking (best-in-class, as tested), high quality build (typical Lexus fit and finish), improved chassis (tightened and more rigid), enormous HP/TQ rating for a naturally aspirated V6 motor (51HP/57Ibft of tq higher than the e90), excellent MPG (for a 300+HP-rated car), luxury features out of the wazoo.... (everything u can get in a $65K full-size lux sedan), and priced competitively (based on mag reports) against the e90 that C&D described as "Platinum VISA priced", and you have yourself a car to be worried about.

    Lexus is not worried they did not get it right, just wait until the car hits showrooms before we pronounce hit-or-miss.... Did you read the C&D review yet ? Here is a quote: "Welcome to the most exuberant Lexus ever built" I suggest you take the time to digest the review and you'll see that the 330i did NOT win the comparo on objective stats....

    You gotta ask how the 330i won by 1 pt ? Did you see the numerous mechanical issues that the tester had ? I can understand why you don't want to face that fact and instead claim "HP is not everything", as if the IS is only about HP (see above). Like C&D said, HP is just one thing, "... Lexus has also poured sweat into the steering and suspension..." On your part, gentlemen, feel free to discount the new IS, I am sure BMW execs are not, and true entry lux sport sedan buyers are going to seriously want to jump into a Lexus sedan that can do the amazing things this IS350 can do as tested, knowing they are looking at a car that is well-built, very fast, very safe, and very reliable, with excellent customer service to boot.... :D :D
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,876
    Well... this is the whole argument, right?

    You keep talking about objective criteria, but buying a car is all about subjective criteria..

    Car reviewers get this, even if you don't...

    Not that I'm taking one side or the other... I haven't driven the new IS, yet... I liked the old one a lot more than most people...

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    OAC, you gotta ask yourself, how did a slower car that broke down beat out a brand new contender that sprang from the most powerful and financially flush company in the world? How could the company behind such sensational, tactile, insanely great cars as the LS430, Camry and RX330 not beat out a slower, more expensive (most likely), less reliable BMW? How did the IS350 lose?

    A vast automotive conspiracy? Bias?

    To think, the 330i couldn't outrace an IS350 to 60 or the 1/4 mile and it broke down, yet some wacky jouranlists still picked it. Things that make ya go hmmmm.
  • potemkinpotemkin Posts: 196
    "The IS brings a total package to the table."

    Don't look now, but the "total package" is missing a manual transmission (assuming you're referring to the IS350). As you yourself expressed, "Just imagine the IS with a 6MT." Imagine? I'd rather they actually make one available, but that's just me.

    The IS300 I drove had more HP & "TQ" than the 325i (E46) I bought. Why did I buy the 3? Because "HP isn't everything," and that's a fact. It's not even in my top ten. When I buy a car that fails to pull itself up the steep incline to my parent's house, then I'll consider it 'underpowered'.

    I like the new IS more than most, but without a clutch and H pattern shifter available the 350 isn't even a consideration. If I were looking at purchasing a new car this fall, I'd be looking seriously at the IS250, not the IS350.

    By the way, a V6 is a step backwards over the previous I6.
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