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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • kominskykominsky Posts: 850
    I <LSD> was wondering <LSD> if that was him... LSD.

  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    fedlawman & kominsky... Ya know what they say, everyone has a doppleganger somewhere in the world? Luckily mine appears capable of trenchant automotive commentary?
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Posts: 1,491
    do you guys by any chance know how much im supposed to pay for an 05 X5 3.0, black on beige, premium, auto, xenon, coldweather?


     one more thing, is the pastel green interior available for USspec x5?


    ive been checking the x5 forums but no answers so far...
  • Has anyone here purchased a 3.6 CTS lately? I am looking, and have been for quite some time now, the perfect midsize car. The CTS just entered the equation and it has my interest after reading the Road and Track comparison. I obviously am also looking at the G35 (too small for me I think), the TL (really like it and it is leading at this time, but the exterior bores me), and the S60 2.5t (nice car, good looks, but a bit small i think).


    I don't want to pay the $38k or so that I configured it for and I know that there are deals out there on GM vehicles. I read somewhere that somebody got $7,500 or so in rebates & incentives.


    Also, what do y'all think about that comparison of the TL and the CTS? I know the FWD vs. RWD will be the major factor for some, but if you can try to rule that out please do.


  • kyfdx@Edmundskyfdx@Edmunds Posts: 25,881
    If you disregard RWD/FWD, the Acura TL wins on all fronts..


    Of course, that is just my


    The big one.. resale.. If you think you will sell that car anytime within 5 years, you will be many thousands ahead with the Acura..

    Moderator - Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    Have you driven the CTS and TL back to back?
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,487
    But that's just on the aesthetic level. Have you checked out the interior of a CTS? Does the C stand for Chevy Cavalier??? And the exterior, while differnt, is just plain overdone. IMHO, of course. I haven't driven the CTS, which is probably its saving grace, but even if it "outdrives" the TL (which I find to be very handome in and out), I could not look at, nor sit in, the CTS every day and be happy...


    Drive 'em both, figure out your priorities and buy. Whichever you buy is the best car.



    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • gordonwdgordonwd Posts: 336
    I always say "what part of your car do you see the most of?" Well, it's the interior -- not the exterior styling, and that has always been very important to me. That's one reason why my last two cars have been a '98 A4 and a '04 325i: both look and feel very nice from the driver's seat.


    That is also one thing that turned me off when I test-drove a Saab 9-3 before deciding on the 325. The instrument panel of the Saab was very complex-looking -- dozens of buttons -- and with the display for the radio and that other display up under the windshield, it definitely didn't do it for me. I really like the external styling, and the car drove & performed well, but I couldn't see myself enjoying the view from the business seat!
  • I have driven the TL, but not the CTS. Those really are the only 2 I can think of. The G is too small, 325 is too small, the A4 is too small, the 9-3 has gotten terrible reviews.


    It appears that the CTS is just as big as the TL. I understand that the fit and finish is not as good in the CTS. I like the exterior styling of the CTS. One problem is that the Acura dealer is 60 miles away and the Cadillac dealer is 2 miles away. That is a big deal to me. I also am feeling pretty patriotic these days and am leaning to the CTS, a car i would of never looked at a year ago.


    It really is tough. On paper the Acura wins and on the interior the Acura wins. I prefer the Caddy exterior to the TL exterior.


    The Acura is cheaper on MSRP as well, but I am wondering if the street price of the CTS is probably much less than the MSRP. It has to be. So, a $38k CTS probably costs you $32k or so is what I am thinking. Does anyone here know?


    I am looking to lease, not buy so that changes things a little bit.
  • kyfdx@Edmundskyfdx@Edmunds Posts: 25,881
    1) If you like the CTS exterior, that counts for something..


    2) 2 miles vs. 60 miles to the dealer is another real benefit..


    3) The lease deals on TLs right now are just standard rates.. no manufacturer support.. So, maybe not that great.


    4) Not sure of the lease deals on the CTS, but something tells me, that the price difference will pretty much disappear if you are leasing.. Maybe, even lower on the CTS.




    Moderator - Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,487
    Another thought, Billy. If winter driving is a consideration for you, then FWD vs. RWD may take on additional importance. Theoretically, FWD is better in the snow. HOWEVER, the non-navi TL is equipped with Bridgestone Turanza EL42 tires which, IMO, are terrible in the snow! Too bad I found this out after buying my TL, which other than the tires is a great car: smooth, quiet, powerful and handsome inside and out.


    I've not been stranded (we're getting another 8-10" on top of the 30" of snow we got in Boston this weekend!) nor spun, but I think that is a combination of my snow driving experience and the TLs traction electronics (TC, VSA, ABS). I'm somewhat upset with these tires (I think they flatspot, also).

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    I had a chance to drive the TL and CTS back to back on a track, and in that environment, the CTS did much better. And, you can get a LOT off the MSRP. I recall seeing ads in the paper offering 6K off to begin with.


    Now, as a daily driver, that's not the #1 criteria, but i'm not interested in a car that doesn't make me smile. That's just my own personal preference. OTOH this is a sport sedan topic.
  • I drove the CTS today for the first time. Love the exterior, the trunk, the size, the seats and the drive characteristics. Cannot stand the interior. I cannot believe it is on the inside of a $43k car that I looked at. I thought that the dimmer switch next to the sunroof opener was going to fall off when I touched it. The doors are plastic, the dash is plastic, the console is plastic, the knobs are plastic, the middle console is plastic. For as much as I love the exterior I can't believe the inside is that bad. I am really dissapointed. I really thought that the reviews were exaggerating how bad it is. I am sorry to those CTS owners that I am offending but I truly am surprised and disappointed.


    I am the only that was that shocked by the interior. How on earth did the CTS beat the 530, A6, Jag, E320 in the Road and Track comparison of the 6 cylinders?
  • darrenwdarrenw Posts: 23
    I do not own any of these vehicle, but IMO 3.xL CTS is not likely to be my choice of vehicles. TL wins the look, interior, power, reliability , comfort, ... well almost everything. If only TL comes with RWD :( (but it handles pretty well too -imo)


    The G otoh has better handling (imo based on its RWD setup) but it comes with tougher ride. Well, it depends on your priorities thou. But if you choose a RWDer, dont forget to get winter tires (if you live in snow area). Believe me you wont regret it.


    Good luck.
  • volvodan1volvodan1 Posts: 196
    The only incentives on the CTS is $1500 GM loyalty. The biggest discount we've given is $5,000 off, and that was a demo w/ 4,000 miles on it. GM has left the incentives off the CTS. Resale has been excellent.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,487
    RE: The interior. I had the same reaction when I first sat in a CTS at the New England auto show a few years back. I really felt like I was in a $20k Chevy, not a (gasp) $40k Caddy!


    As I said earlier, the actual driving is probably (since I haven't driven one) the CTS saving grace. The exterior, while it has grown on me and isn't Aztek-ugly, still is too overdone for my tastes.

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • tedescm1tedescm1 Posts: 309
    How long does it take to settle a lemon law case?


  • Have you sat in the G35 back to back with the TL? If you do, I don't see how you could come to the conclusion the G35 is small but the TL is not. They are virtually identical, except I hit my head in the rear of the TL and not the G. IMO with the updated '05 G35 interior, you should definitely test drive it with your choices. It is fun to test or own any of the cars in this class. So Enjoy!
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    I think a G25 priced about $2500 less than the G35 would be a good idea. Get more younger buyers in the door who will later upgrade to more expensive Infinitis.


    All the other import luxury brands offer or will offer a base version offering about 200 hp. I see no reason why Infiniti should not.


    Audi: A4 1.8

    BMW: 325i

    Mercedes: C240

    Lexus: IS250 (coming soon)

    Acura: TSX


    They could use the V6 VQ25DE used in the Japanese Fuga (U.S. M) 250GT, making 210hp at 6000rpm, and 197 torque at 4400rpm.


    Obviously, it won't feel as powerful as the G35, but it will have a lighter steering feel, better balance, and be more gas efficient as well.


    It'll probably do 0-60 in about 7.0 seconds with auto trans, which won't be that bad.
  • I did sit in the G35 and the TL back to back. Maybe I mistyped, but I think that the headroom in the TL is probably an inch or so more than the G35. I don't necessarily think that the interior is that much different. I am only 6'1" but I do prefer the upright position and my head/hair was rubbing on the roof of the G35, but not on the roof of the TL or the S60 for that matter. They are all fun you are right. I have paralysis by analysis. Done too much research. I should just not look at any stats and get the one that makes me feel good I guess.
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