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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,262
    Paragraphs are helpful things. I've deleted the rest, but that was the primary point.

    I'm looking forward to buying one of those small cheap (in this case, red) compacts -- a 325i. You probably don't care, but most of the rest of the world does quite nicely with smaller cars with smaller engines. I guess you come from the "size matters" school of thought. Let's hear it for "presence."

    Another board has put forth the notion that any vehicle with less than 250 hp has no business claiming to be luxury in any shape, manner, or form. Others of us think differently.

    Handling matters. Fuel mileage matters. Many things matter that American marketing tends to ignore. You are entitled to your opinion, but so are the rest of us.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    So I ended up going from an e46 330i ZHP to an e90 330i. If Infiniti can button down the handling, I'd be happy to jumop ship.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    As far as I'm concerned, there are still no real competitors to the G35 in a RWD 6MT sedan.

    Just because you don't like the dimensions and rear-end styling of the new 3-series, it doesn't mean that it's not a "real competitor" to the G35.....
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,323
    Just because you don't like the dimensions and rear-end styling of the new 3-series, it doesn't mean that it's not a "real competitor" to the G35.....

    How about the fact that a premium pack 330i is $4500 more than a premium pack G35?

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • robertrrobertr Posts: 125
    Sorry I thought my post was clear that I was expressing my opinion of my choices with my money. For my money it is the right size and offers what I want and the others don't and again it is my money I am spending. It is like ones opinion whether he likes spinach or the color purple, its not arguable but it may certainly be discussed. If you all want posts with facts than why bother - just go to a car magazine, manufacturers specs etc. I thought these boards were about OPINIONs and impressions. Posts constantly regurgitating the same facts would be boring indeed-ie "the Infinit has 298 HP, the Lexus has 306 HP".
    I was actually looking forward to checking out the new 3-series and I was expressing my dissapointment and I thought I was being respectful and conveying my thoughts about my decision process as other posters are talking about theirs. I was and am really somewhat upset that I find no other alternatives attractive at this time. I did not say that there were no alternatives for others, only that there are none for ME at this time who wants a 6MT sedan (not a coupe), in the right size for me (not too big, not too small), etc. If price were no object and a coupe was desired my First Choice would be an M3 and that is just the right size for that type of car. If you don't want to hear others comparisons/opinions than what's the point of discussing them? I don't think I criticized anyone elses opinion and did not expect to get flamed for apparently having the "wrong" opinion. I have been very happy with my choice of a G35 and would not want it to be smaller (or bigger) but I do need to decide on a replacement for it.
  • lmacmillmacmil Posts: 1,756
    Not owning any of these cars (I did own a BMW 1600 for 10 years from 1970 to 1980), I have no particular bias one way or the other. As such, I interpreted your first post as simply your opinion why the G35 fits your needs best.

    Unfortunately, some people don't like it when their opinion of which is the "best" car isn't shared by everyone. That's why all these Edmunds forums continue to rehash the same discussions over and over. And probably few, if any, opinions have been changed.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    How about the fact that a premium pack 330i is $4500 more than a premium pack G35?

    qbrozen: That might be your reasoning, but the original poster (robertr) never gave that as a reason. I highly suggest reading through his post.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    I posted this over in the "BMW 3-Series 2006+" forum, but I thought it is applicable here, as well.

    Good safety review for BMW and its new 3-series....

    http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=458
  • I agree. It's really about the price. More for the BMW, less for the Subaru. It seems that over four years, the G35 sedan is evolving into the coupe, with headroom. It's also lighter, and cheaper. Evenso, it has gained weight, (3369 to 3449), and relatively more in the front (52:48 to 53:47). Does anyone know the specific technical differences? One more thing but I digress. Are splash guards really really worth interrupting those clean lines?
  • potemkinpotemkin Posts: 196
    Wow, do I envy you.

    I wish I could decide whether or not a car was worthy of my hard-earned money based simply on seeing one in a lot. Sure would save me a lot of time -- then again, I like test driving new cars. I usually have to test drive them before I can dismiss them (except when they don't over a manual, then it's a slam-dunk).

    P.S.: For the record, I think the new 3 is too big. Bring back the E30! :D
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,323
    Since you quoted him, I didn't think it necessary. If the quote you pulled wasn't representative of your argument ... well, let's just say you might want to be more careful and direct in the future to avoid confusion. No harm done.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • meademeade Posts: 2
    I am trying to decide which one is the better value. I need a car that will handle well on bad roads as I live in the upper midwest. I know the A4 Quattro will be less expensive, but am concerned about reliability after reading many postings. Any thoughts would be appreciated?
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Assumption: When you say, "I need a car that will handle well on bad roads as I live in the upper midwest." What you are really saying is, "I need a car that can absorb rough roads and pot holes without destroying wheels and tires.

    I would think that either would be sufficient, assuming of course that you don't opt for the Sport Package on the A4 2.0T (which has the same rubber as does the A4 3.2). It all rests with the amount of distance between the rim and the tread. Consider the following:

    Audi A4 3.2: Tire: 235/45 R17 -- Sidewall height: 4.20"
    BMW 325i & xi: Tire: 205/55 R16 -- Sidewall height: 4.44"
    Audi A4 2.0T: Tire: 215/55 R16 -- Sidewall height: 4.66"

    As you can see, the non-SP version of the A4 2.0T has the greatest side wall height while the narrower tread of the 325i will allow it to cut through the snow better. Which one is the best? If you want AWD and a true SP, then your only option is the A4.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • poodog13poodog13 Posts: 320
    I am trying to decide which one is the better value. I need a car that will handle well on bad roads as I live in the upper midwest. I know the A4 Quattro will be less expensive, but am concerned about reliability after reading many postings. Any thoughts would be appreciated?

    Audi's are getting killed in reliability ratings lately. Are you committed to an entry-level luxury sedan? Those w/ low profile tires & billed as "great handling" will almost certainly provide a rough ride in upper midwest roads (i.e. pothole city). Maybe consider something along lines of Acura MDX if you want the luxury feel and the good ride quality.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "Maybe consider something along lines of Acura MDX if you want the luxury feel and the good ride quality."

    At the expense of any decent handling at all. Any 3-Series or A4, even without the Sport Package will be able to run rings around an MDX. Geez, I cannot even in my weirdest dreams (nightmares actually) imagine cross shopping an MDX with either of the two German sedans meade is looking at.

    Thought #2, maybe meade is looking for a sedan that has a manual transmission, that in and of itself would rule out an MDX.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • mradelmradel Posts: 1
    I just traded my 4 year old 325xi in for a A4 Cabriolet. That is Audi's 3.0 AWD convertable. I believe that I may trade my loyalty to Audi for good. I also have a BMW X3. The A4 did go for $50K but it is a solid, luxurious performance vehical. A big reason for the trade is that I was tired of taking the BMW to the shop. The 325xi had recently developed rattles in the back seat that prevented me from driving it or being a passenger. I love the A4! Many things seem "smarter" in the Cabriolet. The transmission is a fancy multitronic breed and is very nice. Many of the techno features seem better. The luxury inside is more plush in the Audi. Have yet to see how it is in four years, however many reviews out there point at this model as being a solid value.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    I just traded my 4 year old 325xi in for a A4 Cabriolet. A big reason for the trade is that I was tired of taking the BMW to the shop.

    Umm, you're tired of taking your BMW to the shop...... so you bought an Audi?!?! Yikes....
  • potemkinpotemkin Posts: 196
    So, taking an Audi to the shop isn't as tiresome?
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    So, taking an Audi to the shop isn't as tiresome?

    My point was that Audi tends to have a worse reliability/service record than BMW.... It certainly isn't an upgrade, which is what the original poster was implying.
  • potemkinpotemkin Posts: 196
    bdr,

    M bad, I pressed the wrong "reply" button. Sorry.
  • lmacmillmacmil Posts: 1,756
    Here's another piece of anecdotal evidence: a work colleague of mine bought one of these. After less than a year she either sold it or got them to take it back on a lemon law case due to the amount of time it spent in the shop. Hope your luck is better.
  • jmairejmaire Posts: 3
    I just purchased an a4 and didn't look into the reliability of it prior to leasing, but I had a 2004 325i. It was in the shop a lot, all because of computer problems, I almost think they over enginer some of those cars with too many gadgets. The computer system would malfunction every couple weeks and I would have to take it in, finally they took the car back and i ended up getting an X5. Never had any problems with the X5 and haven't had any yet with the audi, which I love by the way!
  • pgsmithpgsmith Posts: 24
    Maybe the Audi shop has different magazines... ;)
  • neko608neko608 Posts: 58
    The only real contenders in this class are the BMW 3 series, Infiniti G35, and Leuxus IS 250/350

    A4 - for those who cannot afford an A6 (plus it is outdated)
    C-Class - for those who cannot afford an E-Class (plus it is outdated)
    TL - nice car, but it seems a little large for this segment
    CTS - no serious lux/sport sedan fan would even consider this atrocity

    Buckle up and hold on, because the new "big three" in this segment are going to be churning out some fantastic cars in the upcoming years!!!

    Be looking forward to the new IS500 V8 coupe and BMW twin-turbo 3 series coupe!
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    The A4 and C Class are only for people who can't afford the A6/E-Class?

    You believe this, yet don't believe the 3-Series and IS are only for people who can't afford the 5-Series/GS?

    I've always felt this line of reasoning (and it pops up here at Edmunds often) lacks merit in general, but applying this reasoning to Audi and M-B but not to BMW and Lexus just seems ignorant to me.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    I think you need to learn about three little letters - I, M, and O.

    The TL seems too big?

    You obviously haven't checked the dimensions of the G35 lately - 3500# and 112" wheelbase!?!?

    No serious lux/sport sedan fan would consider the CTS?

    You've never driven it, have you? You may not care for it (I don't either, BTW), but it is a capable performer and satisfying to drive.

    "Big 3" huh? IMO, there are at least 9 players in this segment (and Subaru and Mazda are knocking on the door and stealing sales). All of these companies have exciting cars on the horizon.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "A4 - for those who cannot afford an A6 (plus it is outdated)"

    Hmmm, it seems to me that the A4 in Quattro guise wins plenty of races (over the 3-Series and others) in the European car formulas. How is it not a contender?

    Best Regards,
    Shipo

    [edit]

    Ohhh, I see fedlawman took the bit in his mouth as well. ;-)
  • neko608neko608 Posts: 58
    The 3 series is currently the most sought after sport sedan, BMW designs it for people that are looking for a 3 series experience. MB designs the c-class for people that want a mercedes but cannot afford an E-Class price tag.

    The Lexus ES is built more for people that cannot afford their higher models.

    MB and Audi must feel this way too, since they put very little effort into their designs!

    I drove a CTS at GM event in Fall 2004...it's plain garbage. Drove like an Abrams tank and had an outdated interior.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Suffice to say that the above list of comments are your opinion and not true facts. Well, that may not be totally true; they are indeed "facts" to you.

    The flip side is that I will take issue with your assertion that the IS is a true contender. Geez, that car is simply a poseur car, especially with the Automatic only IS350. Yeesh!

    So, are my opinions/factoids any more accurate than yours? I doubt it. :blush:

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • neko608neko608 Posts: 58
    Come on man it is certainly NOT a poseur car. It's very fast and handles well, great engine and is based on a brand new platform.

    When I see a C-Class and an A-4 I just see that their respective companies simply have these cars available for people that like their brands but dont' want to pay a huge price tag. What did audi do with their "redesign?" Gave it all red tail lights and a beard!!

    Take a look at the A8L...gorgeous!! Why didn't as much thought go into improving the A4?

    Conversely, when BMW made the e90 3 series, they knew that it was immensely important to their brand, and they made huge improvements to it to respond to what 3 series customers were looking for, (more modern styling, more power, more lxury) and it's selling very well.
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