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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    The TL has a 39.7 foot turning radius? Geez, even the 300C beats it by nearly a foot with a 38.9 rating.
  • and the Avalon betters the TL by almost 3 feet...at a 330i-like 36.9.

    but, of course, the Avalon isn't small and its not a sports sedan. to answer the original question, I'd go check out the 330i.
  • bhelsdonbhelsdon Posts: 134
    I love my TL, so don't get me wrong. The turning radius sucks. My partner and I laugh about it when we are in tight spaces. We call it our "little yacht". I have gotten very efficient at three point turns.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,629
    I'll second that. The TL is fab, but it does have the turning raduis of, well, a Crown Vic! Other than that, it is powerful and maneuverable. But not a small car, either. Mid-size.

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,262
    Thanks for your post.

    I've been searching for turning circle data for a number of cars, and your post filled in a couple of blanks. Besides which, the link absolutely rules in terms of comparative data. I was able to fill in a couple dozen more blanks in my Excel sheet with what I learned there, with more to come.

    Thanks again.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,679
    Except for the Avalon... all of the cars listed with short turning radii are RWD cars vs. the FWD Acura..

    FWD geometry accounts for most of the difference.. couple that with aggressively wide tires, and it isn't surprising..

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  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Errr, how about the Audi A3 and A4? The are rated at 35.10' and 36.40' respectively. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,679
    Doesn't count... they aren't on the list above.. ;)

    I'd tell you more... but, it would be off-topic..

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  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,580
    Are known for their exceptionally wide turning radiuses. I practically have to make a 3 point turn to get into straight parking spaces with my Prelude. A small price to pay for great handling.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • "Are known for their exceptionally wide turning radiuses. I practically have to make a 3 point turn to get into straight parking spaces with my Prelude. A small price to pay for great handling."

    But why pay that price for great handling when you don't have to? The IS250, G35, 330i, A3, and A4 (to name a few) all handle at least as great as any Honda or Acura (many would say they handle better than any Honda or Acura)....and are much easier to park.
  • poodog13poodog13 Posts: 320
    Focusing in only on turning radius as a way of comparing these cars is inherantly unfair. While the TL may have a much larger turning radius, it is also a much larger car than the 3 series BMW. Add to that the 18" wheels and wide tread and that results in a wide turning radius.

    Given the size difference, I see these cars being in the fringe of one another's class from a comparison perspective. I just bought a maxxed out Maxima SL that compares more directly with the TL and they are almost same in size, performance, and turning radius!
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "Add to that the 18" wheels and wide tread and that results in a wide turning radius."

    Say what? The diameter of the wheel has nothing what-so-ever to do with turning radius. FWIW, the TL comes standard with 235/45 R17 mounted on 17" rims.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • "Focusing in only on turning radius as a way of comparing these cars is inherantly unfair. While the TL may have a much larger turning radius, it is also a much larger car than the 3 series BMW. Add to that the 18" wheels and wide tread and that results in a wide turning radius.

    Given the size difference, I see these cars being in the fringe of one another's class from a comparison perspective. I just bought a maxxed out Maxima SL that compares more directly with the TL and they are almost same in size, performance, and turning radius!"

    I was focusing on turning radius as an objective measure of maneuverability. I certainly wouldn't buy a car strictly based on turning radius, but it goes into the equation for me.

    And there isn't a size difference between the TL and the G35....both have 98 cubic feet of passenger volume (the 330i does only have 93). BTW - trunk volume of the TL is only 12.5 cubic feet compared with 14.8 for the G35 (330i is 12.0) so I could argue that the G35 is overall (passenger plus trunk) a larger car than the TL with a much smaller turning radius.

    The TL is at a disadvantage in terms of maneuverability because of its front wheel drive design....not trying to reopen the front-vs-rear debate.

    I think that the TL is a great overall car. I find myself in parking lots/garages fairly frequently so turning radius mades a difference to me. There are obviously good and bad points for all cars....turning radius is a bad point for the TL.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    I heard that the 335i will be sold solely as a coupe/convertible. If that is the case then I am not interested in the 335i.

    It would be the 335ci then. I don't buy that for an instant. The i has been in need of a powerful sedan version since the e46 changeover. BMW screwed sedan drivers with the e46 M3. An e90 M3 sedan would be great but far too many people make an ignorant connection between 2 doors and sports cars v. 4 door cars. I'd much rather the stiffer chassis of a sedan and the framed window glass over the flexible design of the coupe and it's lousy window design.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257

    No, but your opinion of people that drive an AT does.


    Nothing pompous about saying AT drivers are lazy. Seems to be a fact...most will cite "I drive in traffic." Wah-wah-wah.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Neither the TL nor the E-class are LARGE cars and they're both maneuverable. Your point was??

    Point of view. If an E46 feels large, then it's quite possible for some of us to find the the TL and E to be positively massive.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    My bad, I meant 335ci.

    BMW is being presumptious not only in their connections between sport and two doors but also with non-sport and touring wagons.

    If there was a BMW 330xi Touring or even better a 330i Touring (prefer rwd), I would have one in my garage right now. Unfortunately BMW only sells 325xi Touring and 530xi Touring wagons. Not my idea of excitement at all.

    Or how about the 1 series hatchback wagon? Nope not here folks, we are going to have to settle for a 1 series coupe.

    Shame, shame BMW! At least Audi caters to seekers who want more sport in their wagons by selling A4 3.2 and S4 Avants and ofcourse the A3 Quattro.
  • potemkinpotemkin Posts: 196
    "It would be the 335ci then."

    Rumor has it that BMW is dropping the "c" designation. I guess somebody in Munich figured out that there are other ways to determine whether it's a coupe or a sedan.

    Counting the doors, perhaps?

    Keep in mind, it's information I got second-hand, so it's not worth much.
  • neko608neko608 Posts: 58
    Well at least we agree on something, Dewey!

    Hatches are cool, I don't know what I'd do if I didn't have one hatchback to carry stuff in. I hate having to put a bunch of stuff in a conventional trunk, it's so cumbersome after using wagon for hauling things. Cheers.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    And here is another point we can agree upon:

    It is a shame Lexus killed off the IS Crossover.
  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    I am surprised at how well Infiniti/Nissan have held the details on the upcoming G. Yes, we saw the likely coupe version displayed, but as far as I know, there are precious few technical details available on it, or the four-door which will be shown in NY in a few weeks. Some Japanese magazine speculated on a 3.7L engine, and supposedly, Nissan has trademarked G37, M37, etc, but we have heard nothing that I know of regarding specs on this engine or anything else (transmission, etc) about the new G. Nissan is almost Toyota-like on hiding the info this time.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    What, for Pete's sake, is all of this preoccupation with "turning radius"?

    Unless you are directionally challenged and need to make repeated U-turns on narrow roads, I cannot imagine the average driver turning their steering wheel "lock to lock" frequently enough to have the turning radius be an issue. I have a TL (big) and a 911 (small) and I can honestly say that neither one of them can do a complete one shot U-turn on my street, and yet neither one of them has ever presented me with the slightest problem in DC's tightest underground parking garages.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,262
    Some people carefully position their vehicles between the lines.

    Others abandon them somewhere in the parking lot.

    If the ability to do the former is at all important, turning radius enters the picture.

    "Back in the day," when I was paid by the mile to drive, we usually referred to the trucks that weren't lined up properly as company drivers. FWIW, those who own their own tractors don't look too highly upon people who get paid by the hour (& appear to lack certain skills).

    The ability to precisely position a vehicle is important to some of us.

    Not so much to others.

    "Give me 40 acres & I'll turn this rig around" has a point to make, but I very much appreciate not having to deal with it in my daily driver.

    Those FWD fans who don't notice the difference would make great truck drivers.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "Some people carefully position their vehicles between the lines.

    Others abandon them somewhere in the parking lot.

    If the ability to do the former is at all important, turning radius enters the picture."

    ______________________________________________
    Well, damn, enter me into the parking Olympics! :surprise:
    I have never, ever, had the remotest difficulty positioning my TL (or former FWD Maxima) between the lines of a parking space.

    Either your pulling my leg on this, in which case I compliment your subtle humor. Or, you're actually serious, in which case I think you've really tipped the scale from the sublime to the completely absurd. ;)
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,262
    I should have included two more words -- "more easily."

    As in, "If the ability to do the former more easily is at all important. . ."

    You are correct. It is possible to perfectly park any vehicle, given sufficient skill and/or time.

    The pleasant thing, at least in my world, is to be able to turn on a dime, therefore do a number of things more quickly/easily.

    Perhaps I'm looking for a reason why so many people park the way they do. It's a fool's mission, to be sure, given the number of people who don't use directional signals.

    It all comes down to being considerate. . .or not.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "Perhaps I'm looking for a reason why so many people park the way they do. It's a fool's mission, to be sure, given the number of people who don't use directional signals.

    It all comes down to being considerate. . .or not."


    Now there is something we can agree on - what possesses some people to park as though they are mentally and physically challenged, I'll never know.

    Just this weekend, I was out with the girls in our 911. I'm not the type that will park in the next zip code, but I will pull tight against the curb on a space that is on the right side of a set. Gives the car next to my left plenty of room and (usually) takes me out of range of thier passenger door. Did that in the corner of a restaurant parking lot on Saturday. Came out to find the only other car in the section, a FX35, immediately on my left a full two feet into my parking space, making it impossible for me to open my door wide enough to access the back seat. Intentional, who knows? But as I was loading both of my kids into the back from the passenger side, guy pulls up in a utility van and says "looks like you need help". He then pulls in tight next to the drivers side of the Infiniti with about 3" to spare and has his buddy back into the space I'm vacating. There was no way anyone was getting inside that Infiniti except through the rear hatch. Not something I would encourage in front of my kids, but I definitely got a kick out of it. ;)
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,262
    Excellent!
  • nj356nj356 Posts: 1
    I am looking at a 325XI list $38,595.00, my net $36,847.00. Has premium, auto, cold weather and satellite prep. Can I do better. I am in NJ. Price is from Flemington
  • starman98starman98 Posts: 119
    Yea thats an insult to Abrams Tanks.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Parking makes me nuts! I left my car in my company's parking structure sunday. The place was totally empty and I parked 10 spaces from the elevator. When I returned with a friend some !#$%er parked right next to my car. He had the entire structure and much closer spots to the elevator.

    Argh...still mad thinking about it.
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