Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

1173174176178179594

Comments

  • primetime79primetime79 Posts: 18
    I actually test drove the 3301 and the M3. I am truly in love with the M3. personally I think it is the best car in the planet. The 330i was very disappointing. Couple reasons I did not choose the M3 was the fact that a new model was coming out and it did not offer the luxury refinement that would appease my spouse for a car in this price range. Maybe the only reason it felt slow was because I test drove the IS 350 hours before.....
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Maybe the only reason it felt slow was because I test drove the IS 350 hours before"

    I can understand why it felt slow...it can get to 60 in under 5 secs. :confuse The M3 will run rings around most cars especially the IS350, it is not meant to be a Lexus it is meant to be a BMW, which is why the level of luxury is different by design than on the IS350.

    At any rate, you vote with your dollars and after all your opinion *is* your opinion.
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Posts: 351
    "So please no more mountain, curvy, wavy road nonsense."

    And please, no more 0-60 nonsense! Why not a Subie WRX STi or Lancer Evolucion? Gee, they don't have the requisite levels of luxury, but sure are a kick to drive (fast)! Also cheaper to purchase than a 330i or IS350. There are enough options for today's buyer to purchase any narrow profile of vehicle they choose. What ever is best for you is what you park in your garage.

    BMW's are built by people who relish driving fast. BTW, just wondering... what are acceptable performance stats to you? Don't equate price with "levels of luxury", but try "levels of engineering and quality of components".
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    keyless" ignition that requires a key to be inserted

    Where do you get that? It's patently false: I own an e90 with comfort access (keyless ignition) and the fob never leaves my pocket. I walk up to the car, open the door and press START. That's all.
  • lexus_jnlexus_jn Posts: 102
    "Where do you get that? It's patently false: I own an e90 with comfort access (keyless ignition) and the fob never leaves my pocket. I walk up to the car, open the door and press START. That's all"

    Is this really true? I test drove 3-series before at 3 different dealers but had never seen or heard something like that. All I rememeber was that you have to insert the key into the slot if you want start up the engine with a push button. Guess the keyless ignition thing you're talking about is optional and does not come as standards.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Comfort Access is not standard.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "Price is not a "real" factor to "90%" of buyers? I think your percentage is unrealistic. In my opinion, folks with no regard for price are probably looking at DB9's (I would be)."

    I was referring to the nominal relative price difference between a well equiped 330i and IS350. They are both in the same ballpark price wise. But they are quite different cars, with the former emphasizing overall driving dynamics, the latter luxury amenities. If one is already prepared to spend $40k +/-, I don't think most folks would disregard their preferences to save 5% either way.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "I am merely trying to get everyone else input in terms of the power/acceleration of the car. BMW builds and excellent car, but this is one area IMHO they can historically have always led in but have now fallen afew notches in my books. So please no more mountain, curvy, wavy road nonsense."

    As many others have pointed out, you are overemphasizing the importance of straight line acceleration to overall performance and driving satisfaction, at least among the demographic that has graduated from stop light racing. You can strap rockets to a soap box and get it to 60 faster than a Ferrari.

    BMW's philosophy has always been "make the sespension faster than the car". If you don't buy that "nonsense" then GM and Ford have lots of cars just for you.

    Has BMW "fallen" a couple of notches in power/acceleration? I don't think so. Others have tried to make 0-60 the metric of comparison. BMW makes a 5 passenger M5 that matches my 911S in straight line acceleration and runs circles around anything out of Japan in handling. The M3 that you "absolutely love" will still be a joy to drive for another 20 years, even if it's not the fastest car on the road then, just like a slower Ferrari 328 still is today. Mashing your foot into the floor of an overpowered, under-suspensioned automatic is a short lived thrill. And if your wife heads you in that direction because of her need for the latest in electronic do-dads and amenities, I wish you the good fortune to be able to afford two cars.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,312
    Many have said it, but you said it best.
  • allargonallargon Posts: 75
    Comparing a M3 (coupe!!!) to a IS350 (sedan) isn't really an apples to apples comparison. A CTS-V will likely blow away a M3 in a straight line as will most American muscle cars. They also have a lot more room inside vs. the relatively cramped M3. However, this is an entry-level luxury sedan discussion.

    I will bring this back on track and ask is handling everything. Others have brought up reliability. I've brought up interior space. Many Lexus and G35 lovers like to bring up 0-60.

    That's my question for the BMW 3 series sedan as well as others in this discussion. Is handling everything?
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    > That's my question for the BMW 3 series sedan as well as others in this discussion. Is handling everything?

    Not at all. Otherwise, we'd be driving elises, or we'd find some way to bring over an ariel atom.

    For me, what's great about the BMW is the overall balance. The handling is superb, yet the ride is not very harsh. Power is good, but the engine is not thrashy and the car still achieves good fuel economy. The car is roomy inside(you may argue this) yet it maintains a efficient outside package. The reliability is good. The interior is quite good. The resale is strong.

    IMO( again, just my opinion ) every other car in the category fails on at least one of these points, typically more, and for that reason, i wouldn't consider that car. The g35 gets bad fuel economy, the engine is thrashy, and it feels just a bit ponderous to me. The TL has nose-heavy FWD handling. The CTS has a pretty bad interior. The a4 is very nose heavy and the back seat is tight. All IMO and not reasons someone else shouldn't consider that car.

    Think of it this way: Michael Jordan wasn't the best in the league at any one of his specific overall skills. But his overall package was tough to beat.

    dave
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    That's my question for the BMW 3 series sedan as well as others in this discussion. Is handling everything?

    Nearly. Roadfeel, feedback, glued-to-the-road feeling, oversteer, balance, composure, ease at 140+ - all of this is part of handling in my eyes. This is where the 3 series stands tall amongst the competition.

    People buy for many reasons. What I wrote above is the exact reason I bought a second BMW.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    What makes these discussions interesting is the different priorities one places on form/feature/function. To some hp is it, to some reliability is it, to some handling is it. Yet to other people some combination of all of them with regard to priorities as to what is important and what is not.

    I wasn't comparing an M3 to anything, I was just noting it was part of the 3 series (to some underpowered 3 series) and BMW has all the hp you want, just in a different dollar strata than Lexus. In addition, there was some commentary on the apparent "slowness" of the M3. Some of the hp issues will most likely be a non-issue with the arrival of the 335. With the G37 arriving the Lexus may be last in the 0-60 and hp category.
  • booyahcramerbooyahcramer Posts: 172
    Roadfeel, feedback, glued-to-the-road feeling, oversteer, balance, composure, ease at 140+ - all of this is part of handling in my eyes. This is where the 3 series stands tall amongst the competition.

    In this price range I'd rather have the Mercedes. Still king of the autobahn.
  • proeproe Posts: 157
    MB is like Toyota or the other way around, not a driver's car. Too much isolation from the road and no manual. MB used to have very good reliability, and BMW was never reliable and it still is not.
    Also, BMW dealers treat you like a whale, and that is something you do not hear very often :mad:
    If you ask me, I like MB's ride much better than any other cars and its limitation is not easily reached on any public road and in the hands of average drivers.
    But, why buy a MB while I can buy a Lexus with all the saling points of the MB plus what MB is lacking, reliability :P
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "MB used to have very good reliability, and BMW was never reliable and it still is not."

    That is an opinion masquerading as fact.

    "Also, BMW dealers treat you like a whale"

    And Lexus dealers treat you like a shrimp, and Ford dealers treat you like a cow, and Toyota dealers treat you like a....
  • poodog13poodog13 Posts: 320
    No matter how good the handling, no matter how great the accelaration, I will never ever buy a 3-series for one reason and one reason alone.

    Far too small of a car for the price tag. I love driving a great car, but if I have to sacrifice being able to live a real-world life to squeeze into something that small, just not worth it.
  • kominskykominsky Posts: 850
    "Also, BMW dealers treat you like a whale, and that is something you do not hear very often "

    He's right! I still have the scar from the harpoon! :)

    Seriously, though, not only haven't I heard that often, I've never heard it. What does it mean?
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Far too small of a car for the price tag

    Amen to that.

    When I test drove a 330, within a minute I was telling myself I could get used to the tight fit. Like trying on a pair of Italian loafers when you know you got a wide foot, and trying to convince yourself it ain't that tight.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    If you need a large car, why are you even here?
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    That's one of those things i don't get. A lot of people who complain they need a "big vechicle" are smaller than me.

    It's as if they'd choose rosanne barhr/tom arnold over petra nemcova/johnny depp. Size is what matters,right?

    shrug.
  • proeproe Posts: 157
    In Vegas, whale is described as someone who has a lot money to spend. So, in here, I am referring to BMW dealers push you to do the services that you do not really need now as if money is no subject.
  • proeproe Posts: 157
    May be.

    From what I have heard, it seems to be the facts more or less.

    Just keep in mind that the reliability is a relative measurement.

    No comparison, no reliability issue whatsoever :P
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I'm really surprised that you think BMW dealers are the only ones who try to maximize their profit and squeeze unnecessary and unneeded services on you. :confuse

    I know every other car dealer in the world gives their vehicles away for just a handshake and your word.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Don't need a large car - just not a small one like the 330. "Entry-Level Luxury Performance Sedans" is this discussion. Not "Small entry-level luxury performance sedans".

    Why are you here then? Most 'sedans' aren't small.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    what sedan here is your size?
  • mikeinmdmikeinmd Posts: 23
    Roadfeel, feedback, glued-to-the-road feeling, oversteer, balance, composure, ease at 140+ - all of this is part of handling in my eyes

    When was the last time you were in a car at 140+ mph?
    I hope you don't commute anywhere near me !!!
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    When was the last time you were in a car at 140+ mph?

    He was doing a buck forty in his new 330i just a few weeks ago. Oh the joys of European Delivery (been there, done that, got the Tee-Shirt, can't wait to do it again). I seriously pity those that don't see the value in saving $5,000 off of MSRP and at the same time being able to drive their new BMW in its native environment. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Don't need a large car - just not a small one"

    I kinda have to agree with this. It's just that if the 330 is to small, than so is the TL and so is the G and so is the Lexus...etc. The CTS is the biggest vehicle, but the trade-off is the handling.
  • mikeinmdmikeinmd Posts: 23
    He was doing a buck forty in his new 330i just a few weeks ago. Oh the joys of European Delivery (been there, done that, got the Tee-Shirt, can't wait to do it again). I seriously pity those that don't see the value in saving $5,000 off of MSRP and at the same time being able to drive their new BMW in its native environment.

    The downside --- on the Autobahn (the unlimited speed limit areas) when there is an accident the question is not number of injuries but number of bodybags (as I remember for the few years I lived in Bavaria, near Munchen).

    Maybe I am just getting older and don't feel the need to pull those kind of G's...
Sign In or Register to comment.