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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    "Start with an Accord (it can be a V6 -OK). It'll serve you better image-wise than you think the Lexus will. Trust me."

    Accord is out of the question because my college car was an Accord (my high school car was a '90 Acura Legend). I really don't see that a brand new Lexus will hurt my image in the company since they pay me enough to support it.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    first of all...you probably don't need a grad school diploma to be in the real estate business.

    I never asserted one needs a grad degree or any degree to be involved in real estate. Judging by the agents I've met over the years, I might even conclude a high school diploma amounts to the maximum education achieved by 90% of agents operating in the country.

    Second, grad school diploma has nothing to do with what car you drive but your annual income does.

    Not really. But go ahead and equate the car one drives with income. The kids of San Diego and Orange Counties certainly crush that theory.

    Apparently you believe status is conveyed through cars. Sigh.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    First of all, kids in San Diego and Orange Counties are special cases. Second, your income has a lot (probably not everything) to do with what car you drive. It's very simple, the more you get paid, the better car you'll be able to afford (not necessarily meant that you need to buy a better car but at least you have that option). On the other hand, if one is flipping burgers at MacDonald's he/she won't have the option to go with an ELLS. Last but not least, I don't believe status is conveyed through cars but I do believe that there is nothing wrong to buy something that's within my budget.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    "As for 5.8 sec acceleration... Next year BMW(yes, again) has plans for a 300+ hp 3-series sedan for those who are interested. I'm not. I'll take a version with "just" 215 hp (325i). It's enough for a 60 mph speed limit."

    Uh...NO. The 335i will only come in one version: coupe. BMW has decided to drop the coupe's 'c' designation so there won't be a sedan version of the 335i. Also, the 300 HP 3-series comes with a twin turbo I6. Although I have nothing against a turbo-charged engine but if I have a choice I'll go with a naturally aspirated 6 banger. That's just me though.

    Hopefully the 335i will have a different interior design. The current 3-series' interior is average at best.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257

    Uh...NO. The 335i will only come in one version: coupe. BMW has decided to drop the coupe's 'c' designation so there won't be a sedan version of the 335i.


    That you know of. Those of us frequenting bimmer boards have read otherwise. It's in BMW's best interest not to publicize the sedans with the bigger engines.

    Also, the 300 HP 3-series comes with a twin turbo I6. Although I have nothing against a turbo-charged engine but if I have a choice I'll go with a naturally aspirated 6 banger. That's just me though.

    Yes, just you. I'll take a TT thanks. A dinan chip (which won't hurt the warranty) will easily boost the hp to 350 and torque to 400 ft-lbs. 400 ft-lbs from 1400 rpm on...that's stump pulling out of corners. The TT in the sedan (coupes have weak chassis) will address one problem with the e90. hopefully they'll give it a more gutteral engine sound too as all the cars in this class are snooze-inducing under WOT.

    Hopefully the 335i will have a different interior design. The current 3-series' interior is average at best.

    Couldn't find a better one in the market - save for the dearly departed e46. Sad actually, that nobody in the entry lux market can beat the ergonomics of vehicle released in 1998. Everything falls to hande perfectly in the old e46. The e90's got a bunch of ergonomic problems - top of my list is the placement of the window switches on the left armrest (it makes me so angry every time I need to lower a window). I could write a book about how lousy the e90's interior is compared to my now departed e46. But the competition, as usual, lags behind.

    Why manufacturers have moved away from driver-centric dash layouts is beyond my ken. The stereo, hvac and everything else should be directed at the only person in the car who matters: the driver. Don't even get me started on the dual-climate control garbage...argh. Or stereo controls that passengers can touch...god no!
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    That you know of. Those of us frequenting bimmer boards have read otherwise. It's in BMW's best interest not to publicize the sedans with the bigger engines.

    Well, I was going by the official words from BMW. I guess we'll find out really soon if the new engine is going to make it into a 4-door version or not.

    I could write a book about how lousy the e90's interior is compared to my now departed e46. But the competition, as usual, lags behind.

    If we are only talking about the interior here then NO, the competition doesn't lag behind (okay I'll put in IMO if you insist). For example, both the Acura TL and IS350 have superior interiors comparing to the 3-series.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    If we are only talking about the interior here then NO, the competition doesn't lag behind (okay I'll put in IMO if you insist). For example, both the Acura TL and IS350 have superior interiors comparing to the 3-series.

    To each his own. I like spartan, clean lines. I also like multiple options for colors and trim (4 colors of leather, 3 types of wood/aluminum) - something that doesn't exist with Lexus, Acura or Infiniti. I customized my car from the factory - again, not an option with lexus.

    Additionally we can get into the steering wheels, the placement of the shifter, the pedals, etc. The seating position plays into this too. to each his own. Only audi's interior comes close.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    I customized my car from the factory - again, not an option with lexus.

    Yes, that is an option with Lexus. The downside is that you need to wait about 4 months. I don't know how long you need to wait for a customized Bimmer but 4 months is about how long you'll need to wait for a customized-build Lexus.

    I also like multiple options for colors and trim

    I agree with you on this that lexus/Acura/Infiniti doesn't offer as much interior color options as BMW but at least for me 3 colors of leather and 2 types of wood/metallic is enough to choose from.

    Only audi's interior comes close.

    I personally am not a big fan of Audi's interior, too plain for my taste (also, I don't like red electronic displays).
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "To each his own. I like spartan, clean lines"

    I'm with you on this. Maybe a better way of saying it is IMO the BMW interior is more focused from a drivers perspective, but I wouldn't say the competition doesn't have nice interiors. BMW interiors always make me feel at home.
  • pupappupap Posts: 1
    After 2 months of debating and researching I finnaly bought a car. My search included 2 automibiles. The IBMW 330I and The IS 350. My brother owns a 330I and has owned BMW for the last 10 years. I have read at least 50 reviews on both these cars and after test driving both cars I have to tell you the majority of reviews are bologny! I initially was sold on the BMW until I saw the interior and recognized the car had absolutely no giddie up. Afterwards I checked out the IS 350. My favorite features on this car is the backup camera, tight handling, acceleration, luxury refinements, sporty but smooth ride. When you open up the ashtray or the sunvisor everything just moves so smoothly. Very impressive!!!!!!!Eventually I decided o get the IS 350 since IMO it provided the best combination of sport/luxury/looks. Handling feel definitely goes to BMW, but the handling on the IS 350 is just as tight also great just with not much feedback. After driving my car a few times and experiencing the driving amenities and overall package of the IS 350 my brother now has buyer remorse and seriously contemplating trading in his BMW 330I for and IS. Friends just don't believe every reviewer and takes anyone opinions as facts after all its all just an opinion. Make sure you test drive numerous cars in what ever segment your looking at Had I not done that I would have settled for the 330I and my brother would not be experiencing buyers remorse right now.

    Black/Black IS 350
    NAVI, BAck up camera,Bluetooth, spoiler.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    "To each his own. I like spartan, clean lines."

    According to Webster's dictionary, spartan means- marked by simplicity, frugality, or avoidance of luxury and comfort.

    That's exactly the way I would describe the interior of the 3 series. :P
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "That's exactly the way I would describe the interior of the 3 series"

    It might be IMO, but your opinion is in the minority. BMW has a much more functional interior than the IS, which makes it nicer. :P It's not devoid of luxury, it's devoid of clutter.

    blueguy better get his dictionary out before posting.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Yes, that is an option with Lexus. The downside is that you need to wait about 4 months. I don't know how long you need to wait for a customized Bimmer but 4 months is about how long you'll need to wait for a customized-build Lexus.

    Actually it's not an option. talk to a lexus dealer. They, if they're honest, will explain they can only "order" cars Lexus is building. They must take what Lexus builds - nothing is built to order by Lexus.

    I also like multiple options for colors and trim

    Not 4 colors of leather (beige, black, grey, terra) and 3 wood/aluminum trims. Sorry Lexus doesn't offer than kind of customizing. You also must get items within packages - so picking things you do and don't want is nigh impossible. Heck, I'm not even including the lemon leather interior option for BMW.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    I know exactly what spartan means. I wrote what I meant. Within that segment the BMW has the spartan interior styling I lean toward. If anything, the e90 is actually too soft for me - the leather is not nearly as hard and nice as in the e46, the seats seem wider, the whole damn interior's too big and the thing has junk like duel-zone-HVAC and a flat center console that the passenger can see/touch.

    I want a purposeful interior that's got the gauges I need, hard, tight leather seats, an ergonomics focused on the driver. The 46 had it, the e90 is a step away but not nearly as bad as the competition. Give me the hard edged teutonic designs over anything buicky-soft (Infiniti, Lexus, Acura, Caddy).
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    I don't know how Lexus dealers in San Diego function but dealers here in the Southeast do take special orders. I know this because I just purchased a new IS. My dealer explained to me that if you can't find anything you like on the lot there are 3 ways to obtain a car of your preference:

    1. Trade with other dealers (the simplest). Dealers usually trade car at port right after they arrived. For my region the port the Jacksonville.

    2. Request the car before they shipped out. This is not custom-build, instead the dealers request the car right after they rolled out of the assembly line. If dealers don't have special request then it's up to Lexus to distribute the cars.

    3. Customer-build. This option takes the longest (usually up to 120 days) and yes you can customize your car. The story I heard is that Lexus rarely builds IS with sports package and the only way to get it is through special order.

    As for the color, like I said the color options Lexus offered is plenty enough for me and also, Lexus doesn't charge extra for paint colors other than while, red and black like BMW does.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    To say that Infiniti, Lexus and Acura are Buicky-soft is just your own opinion. Anyone with common sense after drives the IS, G and TL tell you that it's nothing likes the Buick.

    I do agree with you that E46's interior looks way better than E90's and I also would like to see more driver-oriented cockpit design for cars in this segment.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    o say that Infiniti, Lexus and Acura are Buicky-soft is just your own opinion. Anyone with common sense after drives the IS, G and TL tell you that it's nothing likes the Buick.

    Interiors. Read the whole message. I was discussing interiors. As for drive, only the Lexus and the Acura are soft in terms of drive. The Infinti feels pretty good - a tad skittish.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    "It might be IMO, but your opinion is in the minority."

    Do I really have to post the numerous reviews about the interior styling of the 3er? I hope not..

    "It's not devoid of luxury, it's devoid of clutter."

    What you call clutter, others call "necessity." ;)
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I keep hearing folks harping on the issue of the extra cost metallic paint on many German cars. Given that BMW (and Mercedes and Audi) uses a more complex process to paint a car with metallic paint and then applies two or more extra coats of finish on metallic colored cars, I simply cannot understand why folks should complain about the marginal extra cost. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that Lexus doesn't charge for their metallic colors, but do they use the same multi-layered process as BMW? Not the last that I heard.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    "I know exactly what spartan means. I wrote what I meant."

    Then we're in agreement.

    "Give me the hard edged teutonic designs over anything buicky-soft (Infiniti, Lexus, Acura, Caddy)."

    Not even going to go into the inherent absurdity of that comment... :blush:
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Yes I think you do. In fact I'll post the first one.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=104670

    Note in the article where they talk about build and quality materials.

    "What you call clutter, others call "necessity." ;) "

    Yes, and still others call clutter. :)
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    You wouldn't say that the Lexus IS350 or Acura TL has much softer seats than a 3 series?
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    If you are talking about Interiors then you've gotta be mad to compare Acura/Infiniti/Lexus' interior with Buick's. IMO these three's interior are better than Bimmer's (okay, maybe not Infiniti's), nevertheless Buick's.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,606
    I can't say that I recall the firmness of the 3 seats, but if they are significantly harder than a TL, ouch! They must be filled with solid wood! :) I find my TL seats far from soft. Of course, I did come from a Chrylser 300M whose seats I found lovely, but much softer than the TL.

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    You wouldn't say that the Lexus IS350 or Acura TL has much softer seats than a 3 series?

    Yes, but as soft as the Buick? I don't think so.

    Also, a car's interior isn't just the seats. It also includes the dash, center console and many others. Beside paying extra for the metallic paint one also needs to pay extra to get genuine leather seat in 3-series. As for Lexus, genuine leather is standard throughout the lineup
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Beside paying extra for the metallic paint one also needs to pay extra to get genuine leather seat in 3-series. As for Lexus, genuine leather is standard throughout the lineup"

    Saying it another way you can build the car the way you want and pay for only those options that make a difference for you.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    I find my TL seats far from soft

    I second that. The TL's thigh bolsters are hard. Can't wait til they soften up after some use.
  • aaarghaaargh Posts: 230
    When I test drove both the TL (which I bought) and the BMW 330 in 2004, I remember the BMW seats to be way too hard for me, much harder than the TL's and that's saying something. The dash was too spartan for me as well.

    I believe there are 'driving enhusiasts' who want seats that hard. For me though, a good (not great) performer with comfort is the best mix.

    Those making generalizations like 'your opinion is in the minority' one way or the other lose credibility in my view. If you talk mostly to enthusiasts, the BMW seats are just right and you will feel those of us who like the mixture are in the minority. I see it the other way. I have no way of quantifying it and I think others have no way either.

    As has already been said, it's what is best for each individual, not what anyone else thinks is best (even if they are in the minority ;) ).
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    aargh, I couldn't say it better :D .
  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    Well, pupap, the IS350 is a nice car, assuming you can fit inside one. When I test drove one, my head was touching the liner no matter how I adjusted the seat. The salesman suggested that I tilt it back - sorry. I am not tall (6'0) but have this problem in the GS as well. Judging by comments on this board and others, Toyota/Lexus seems to have much more of an issue here than most other brands. I have never had this problem in a BMW. It is good that you like your IS, and also good that (apparently) you fit.
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