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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

1187188190192193575

Comments

  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    If the Accord is too hard for you then the TL will only be harder. You probably want to check out the new ES350.
  • meateatermeateater Posts: 123
    If the Accord is too hard for you then the TL will only be harder. You probably want to check out the new ES350.

    What are you, Mr. Answer Man for all models of cars? I see you own the Lexus, not the TL. I drive the TL every day, and had an Accord before that. The ride between the 2 is about the same. The TL has a better road presence tho cuz of the wider,low profile tires. I would describe neither as 'hard'. When I drive my brother's G35 I don't see a big difference in how his car rides vs. mine. And my sister's 325 isn't much different either. I don't get this 'hard' business....maybe a Lexus rides 'soft'.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Nope, don't have answers for all models but I did drive TL, TSX, and Accord before so I am just trying to answer his question. He was asking if TL will feel HARDER than Accord, NOT if TL will have a BETTER ROAD PRESENCE. Usually a harder ride gives you better road presence so I stand corrected based on YOUR POST. I am not an expert in this driving dynamics business but if you think Accord/TL drives as hard as a 3er then I think we should just stop the discussion here and agree to disagree. As matter of fact, Lexus does ride soft comparing to other makers (especially the boatish ES350). Even their most sporty ride, IS, is considered soft by many enthusiasts so go figure.
  • Nobody but BMW owners will complain about the G35's handling. Front-end grip borders on the remarkable, while body control and balance are superb.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=116681
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Both Infiniti and BMW has raised the bar and left Lexus in third. (I should add only in the performance aspect, obviously Lexus rules when it comes to reliability)

    In the latest issue of C&D they timed the 335i to 60 in 4.9. Don't know if the figure was adjusted based on their proprietary algorithm. Here's a blurb from Automobile magazine.

    See here.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Bummer: there are complaints about the G35 Sport's four-wheel active steer (FWAS) system which includes a variable steering ratio. It also includes active toe in the rear wheels. Similarly there were many complaints with BMW’s first active steering. Porsches have a variable steering ratio too but there were no laments as it wasn’t so severe. Here are the ratios:

    G35S 12.0:1 to 18.5:1. - 6.5 degree difference
    BMW 530i 10.0:1 to 18.0:1 - 8 degree difference
    Porsche 911 13.7:1 to 17.1:1 - 3.4 degree difference

    Note: BMW’s now-stand-alone active steering was tweaked for the 2006 330i. The steering ratio shown above was on the 2004 530i with sport package.
  • Got to hand it to the Bimmer guys. They keep taking the best shots from the contenders, and knock them all back, up and down the lineup. Obviously Infiniti comes much closer than Lexus. I think MB and Audi also come closer.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    The official specs and packages are out.

    306 hp, 268 lb/ft torque

    Curb Weights (EPA mpg)

    G35: 3497 (19/26)
    G35 Journey: 3508 (19/26)
    G35 Sport: 3538 (19/26)
    G35 Sport 6MT: 3532 (19/27)
    G35x: 3704 (19/25)

    Premium Package
    Tinted glass power sunroof with rear tilt feature, sliding sunshade, and one-touch operation; Studio on Wheels™ by Bose® premium audio system with Burr Brown® Digital Audio Converters; driver’s seat, steering wheel and outside mirror memory system; seat and outside mirror position synchronization (outside mirrors automatically adjust as seat is moved); driver’s seat power adjustable lumbar support (2-way); power tilt and telescoping steering wheel; one touch up/down rear window function; automatic anti-glare rearview mirror with HomeLink® Universal Transceiver; Bluetooth® hands-free phone system; heated front seats and front outside mirrors (standard on G35x AWD)

    Navigation Package
    Infiniti Navigation System (hard disc drive-based) with Infiniti controller and 7.0-inch color touch screen, Lane guidance (part of route guidance) and building footprints (enhanced graphics), 9.5GB music hard drive (replaces in-dash 6-disc CD changer) and compact flash slot for playing MP3 files, real-time traffic information, voice recognition functions for HVAC, audio and navigation, XM™ satellite radio (requires Premium Package)

    Technology Package
    Intelligent Cruise Control; Adaptive Front lighting System (AFS); Rearview Monitor; Brake Assist with Preview Braking (requires Navigation Package)

    Wood Trim
    Genuine African Rosewood trim on center console, instrument panel and doors (requires Graphite or Wheat interior and Premium Package)

    Performance Tire & Wheel Package
    225/50R18 front and 245/50R18 rear W-rated tires and 18-inch lightweight cast aluminum wheels (requires Premium Package or Sunroof)

    Four Wheel Active Steer Package

    Front and Rear Active Steer Systems

    Satellite Radio
    Sirius® or XM™ (requires Premium Package)

    The 2007 G35 Sport (6MT and auto) has standard power thigh and torso bolster adjustments.
  • "Both Infiniti and BMW has raised the bar and left Lexus in third. (I should add only in the performance aspect, obviously Lexus rules when it comes to reliability)"

    I think the right word is "quality" :-)

    Seems like BMW has learned something. The new 335i has a different style taillights as compared to the 06's 3-series.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Quality is different than reliability. I meant reliability :) All cars in this category are quality cars. You get to pick the version of the quality that suits you the best.
  • G35: 3497 (19/26)

    The poor gas mileage alone would keep me from the G35. Lexus and BMW are smart to have smaller engines that get 30+ mpg.

    I know a lot of shoppers are looking more and more at the EPA MPG figures as a major factor in picking one model over another.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    The 4.9 secs to 60 that C&D recorded was amazing for this car, but I had assumed the car tested had a manual transmission. In fact, it had an automatic. I don't see how they could get a much faster number even with a manual.

    One of the mags (maybe R&T) said it lacked low end grunt. Who cares?
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,458
    Nissan credit. They're offering a 6-speed manual transmission with a sport suspension & a limited slip differential. Very impressive indeed. Of course I'd have to drive one to make more informed comments.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    "Judging from some of the previous G35 posts, my guess would be in heavy stop and go traffic 19 would be an optimistic figure."

    The EPA city estimates are optimistic for all cars in heavy stop and go traffic.

    Check out CR's mpg data. EVERY car, including all Lexus and BMWs, got significantly worse city mileage than the EPA figures. And it was just "normal" city driving.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    "G35: 3497 (19/26)

    The poor gas mileage alone would keep me from the G35. Lexus and BMW are smart to have smaller engines that get 30+ mpg.

    I know a lot of shoppers are looking more and more at the EPA MPG figures as a major factor in picking one model over another."


    So, the G35 (22.5 mpg) gets 2 less mpg than the 335i (24.5 mpg) and the IS350 (24.5 mpg). At 12,000 miles per year, the G35 requires more 43 gallons, or $130 more per year. Big deal, considering that a G35 will be $4000 cheaper than a IS350 and $8000 cheaper the 335i, all similarly equipped.

    Heck, take that $4000/$8000 and put it in a money market account, which guarantees about 5% per year these days. That gets you $200/$400 per year, which more than pays for the $130 extra gas for the G35.

    That said, I do think that Infiniti would be smart to bring the G25 with the new 2.5 VQ HR engine here. It'll be offered in Japan, so shouldn't be that big a hassle.
  • The poor gas mileage alone would keep me from the G35. Lexus and BMW are smart to have smaller engines that get 30+ mpg.

    Lexus uses a 3.5 liter, just like Infiniti. Comparing apples to apples as some here say. someone shopping an IS250 and satisfied with its power wouldn't even bat an eye at the G35.

    BMW's 3.0 gets 30 mpg. But again that engine is leagues beyond the IS250.
  • Agreed about the G25. Or at the least, put the old 3.0 VQ from the late 90s with 225 HP in the car. That was a great engine. Infiniti could drop it in and lower the starting price 3k. I'd bet that the G30 would sell like hotcakes and increase Infiniti's sales a good 20k units a year.

    Plus that was a great engine!
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    A friends G35 got 15/16 in the same type of traffic I commuted in. My BMW had about the same deviation, few mpg less.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    That's what I would do if the G35 was the car I wanted.

    But if one leases, the BMW could be on par to the G35 in terms of payments. Mileage might swing the sale.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Right now I am driving all city with my IS350 and I am getting 20 mpg. Oh and by the way, I am by no means a light footer.

    I believe the EPA figure for IS350 is 19/28.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    BMW's 3.0 gets 30 mpg. But again that engine is leagues beyond the IS250.

    I believe you were referring to the current 325i's 3.0 right? If that's the case I really don't know how it is "leagues" beyond the 4GR-FSE.

    325i - 3.0 I6 with 215 HP.
    IS250 - 2.5 V6 with 204 HP which features direct injection.

    I think the only area that the 3.0 is beyond the 4GR-FSE is its bigger displacement. However, if you were referring to 330i's 3.0 then that's a whole different story.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "I think the only area that the 3.0 is beyond the 4GR-FSE is its bigger displacement. However, if you were referring to 330i's 3.0 then that's a whole different story."

    It's an odds on bet that he was referring to the 3.0. My 328i and my 530i along with blueguydotcom's 330i ZHP were all able to easily return > 30 MPG. Historically speaking German cars have been tuned to return good mileage at very high speeds and as such they don't do well on the hokey EPA tests as the top speed there is well below the sweet spot for fuel economy on these cars.

    Said another way, even though my 530i was just broken in (i.e. 1,300 miles), it was still returning about 24 mpg with the cruise control set at 125 miles per hour. Not too shabby. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    A VQ 3.0 HR engine would be nice. They could probably tune it for about 260 hp. But it doesn't exist, at least not yet. They only have a 2.5 HR and a 3.5 HR engine so far.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    All I'm saying is that a gas spending difference of $130 per year shouldn't be that big a concern. At least, it's not to me.

    Anyways, I do agree that BMW has good lease deals. But, if you find a lease deal on a 335i that's the same as a similarly equipped G35, let me know. Because I'll be all over that.
  • I am comparing the G35 to the smaller engine IS and 3 series. The difference will be more than $130 a year. The IS 250 gets 24/32. If every day driving is G35 is about 19mpg and the IS is about 26 mpg than there is real savings to be had. People care more about the gas prices than they used to and a lot do not want/need the fastest engine in these cars.

    BMW/Lexus has an option to get the style, luxury, etc and the higher gas mileage. Infiniti does not. I eliminated the old G35 on that basis and chose between the Lexus IS 250 and BMW 325. BMW dealership did not have a car equiped as I wanted and Lexus did and gave me a good deal. I wanted atleast 30mpg on the hwy since I drive a lot.

    Infinit will do well, but the lack of engine options will hamper it after the newness is over.
  • In the realm of engines that get 20-30 or 24-32, I'd expect to compare the low ends the same way.

    07 G35 - (15k miles /19 mpg) x 3.30 = 2605
    06 IS250 - (15 k miles / 24 mpg) X 3.30 = 2062
    06 330i - (15 k miles / 20 mpg) X 3.30 = 2475

    So yeah the IS250 gets great gas mileage but it's a really lousy car, imho. It's easily worth $400-600 to me per year to not drive an IS250.
  • I did not say that you cared about the difference, but many people do. The difference in real world driving will most often be bigger. I would expect a real world mpg difference of 6-7mpg. Since Lexus sells more IS250s than 350s (Audi sells more 2.0t vs 6cyl, etc) it leads me to the conclusion that most people do not care about overall speed.

    PS - How is the IS a "really lousy car"? Speed on par with the smaller engines of other brands Audi, MB, BMW, etc. You may not like the car, but calling it lousy looses you credibility. I chose the Lexus over the BMW, but I can see how people like the BMW. There is really no lousy car in this segment; just choices with different attributes. For example, what car matches the "lousy" interior of the Lexus?
  • "What car matches the lousy interior of the Lexus?

    Audi.....

    Next question
  • "What car matches the lousy interior of the Lexus?

    Audi..... "

    Considering my current car is the IS and my last car was an A4 - I would be in a better position to comment. Both are great designs. The Audi is simpler and the Lexus is more luxurious.

    My last car interior:
    http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/jzalkin/Cars/IMG_4461.jpg

    "Next question"
    Sure - Why can't you admit that Lexus has a good product and a viable option?
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    As I indicated in my post, a G25 or G30 will be welcomed here. I've been advocating that for the past few years.
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