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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "I for one view AWD as a detriment to performance, efficiency, and handling. I'll take RWD any day over AWD. Leave the extra weight, the lower gas mileage and the freaky under-neutral-oversteer in corners out of my cars, please. "

    You forgot AWD's additional initial expense and added long term maintenance/repairs. We are on the same page on this one.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "We are on the same page on this one."

    Me three.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    So no Audis for you guys eh?

    M
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    As much as I hate to say it, I agree with blueguy on this one... :surprise:
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I absolutely love the A3 2.0T, errr, with one glaring exception. And what pray tell is that? It ain't RWD.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29770

    US spec - picked it up in Germany. There ya go, it exists and they're being delivered...
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    We still need a professinal opinion 330xi vs 330i Non-SP. I still say xi out-handles the stock i.

    OW
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Actually, a member here reports buying his a week ago: dax3, "BMW 335i 2007" #30, 11 Sep 2006 2:53 pm.

    Those are great pics in the post you linked.
  • That's a 335i e92 that guy bought, Pat. The 335i e90 (darn BMW for changing their model designators) is the first one any of us at Bimmer/e90 have seen prove of.

    The 335i e90 sedan has not reached US shores yet. This guy picked his up via European Delivery.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Oh, gotcha! :blush:
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    AWD's great if your in wet/snowy/sloppy conditions but for some of us those conditions just don't occur.

    True but even here in deep freeze Toronto I prefer RWD. We have a 530xi Touring because my wife will soon be the main driver (at least until I get my BMW335i). But in my case snow and ice will not hinder me from buying a RWD 335i this fall. Even if there was a 335xi AWD available I would not even consider it!
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "Even if there was a 335xi AWD available I would not even consider it!"

    I second that notion. Even though I live in the balmy tropical climes (compared to you) of southern New Hamster, I won't even consider AWD as an option, even if it is offered for free.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Well I'll take the one you would turn down. :)
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    It's yours. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    Well hi neighbor. I guess you don't drive Temple Mt. (which lies on the main East-West road) much in the winter? I've been there a few times where the police stop traffic and only left AWD/4X4's go thru. The roads and my driveway are frequently a glacier for a few months. There is a reason that Subaru is the "state-car" around here.

    As far as RWD and performance go with winter, I hardly ever see any sort of RWD performance car on the roads. I have a Firebird that if I want to drive in the winter would go from 245-tires down to 215's for snows. Seeing that I've had to drive thru snow deep enough to bog down a Subaru.

    In a perfect road, sunny world RWD would be great. In this world I'll take all the traction and power I can get. Give me 8-powered wheels and 1,500hp, thank you! I want to travel in all weather and as much terrain as possible in my car. The Cayenne Turbo might be the right approach for me.

    BTW - 1) if the BMW turbo is closer to 330hp that is somewhat respectable. I was only going by their listed specs. and thought that was a little low relative to what has been done before. 2) Lambo and Audi seem to have some fine-AWD performance cars, in addition to what others have mentioned.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Greetings back at'cha! ;-)

    While I only live a few miles from where I-93 crosses the MA-NH state line, I wouldn't exactly say it's flat around here. I live on a street with a 7.5% grade and my driveway is just over 10%. Still and all, my winter tire shod 530i happily plowed through an easy 8" of snow, right up our street and up our driveway with nary a wheel slip. That having been said, several of our neighbors across the street have driveways that exceed 30% and there is simply no way the 5er would climb those driveways, winter tires or not. At one of our monthly poker parties last winter I barely made it up on foot, and, ummmm, a few single malts later going down was even more fun. :blush:

    Even though I've never managed to get any of our 2WD cars up any of those driveways when slippery, I don't feel too bad as all of the residents of those houses park their AWD Volvos, Audis and 4WD Dodge Rams and Jeeps on the street when the snow flies. Why? Well, a Jeep driver made it half way up one of the driveways last winter, lost traction and then had to get towed out of the front yard of the house across the street. Scary.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,543
    with shipo (as i have for many years), blueguydotcom, & habitat when it comes to AWD. We beat the AWD vs. RWD topic on the 3 series board to death numerous times.

    merc1: AWD is not even near the top of why I wouldn't buy an Audi.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    As far as RWD and performance go with winter, I hardly ever see any sort of RWD performance car on the roads.

    There are many RWDs driving during Toronto winters. Even if I was driving in Greenland I would insist upon driving RWD (with good snow tires ofcourse)
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    Looked on the Lexus website and it seems it is not available. Can anyone confirm this?
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Dude, the manual tranny was NEVER an option on the IS350. Which is one of the reasons why many enthusiasts kept on bashing it...
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    And given the continuing lack of availability my bet is that they'll keep on bashing it in the future too. Long live the three pedal stick shift. :shades:

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • Like Lexus cares what a few manual die-hards think!
  • They care that the press for their IS350 isn't all that hot.
  • "They care that the press for their IS350 isn't all that hot"

    Every car has faults pointed out, but every article that about the Lexus seems to be really positive. Won CR and came in second in C&D. With the "off switch" for the electronics for 2007, it should get more positive reviews next go around. Only a biased person against the Lexus would say it that the press "isn't all that hot".

    It just got ranked as one of the most appealing cars.
    link title
    How is that for good press.
  • Almost every match up I've seen has the BMW (with just the basic 3.0) and the G35 beating out the soulless Lexus car. Autoweek just had one.

    The more amusing matchup: the 07 G35 v. 07 e90 335 v. 07 IS350. Something tells me the 335 won't simply win that battle, it'll obliterate the Lexus.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "Like Lexus cares what a few manual die-hards think!"

    That sounds like something that a Buick executive would say.

    You would think that a company with engineers capable of developing an active ventilated heated air-conditioned and variable speed butt massaging seat for the die hard old foggies would figure out that a so-called sport sedan with a slushbox only transmission choice is an oxymoron. Which is apparantly what they are, minus the oxy.
  • Since there has been no overall competition yet of the 2007 - who knows. Bigger engine for the BMW and no more electronic nanies seems like a close battle to me. Since the last major C&D competition had the Lexus and BMW tied in points for first and both ahead of the last G35. Who knows what a new series will show.

    Either way it seems to be close for the 3 cars, but that is something you will never admit. I guess you are bitter that the 3 was not on the list of most appealing cars. I bet if it was - you would be typing the results in big bold letters.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "I guess you are bitter that the 3 was not on the list of most appealing cars."

    So I guess we all owe you a debt of gratitude for pointing out the top car magazine in the world did not find the BMW 335i appealing.

    I guess they didn't consult this before making their prognostications - where I notice Lexus just walked away in every category. Just like you *probably* wouldn't take any financial advice coming out of Popular Mechanics, I tend to really doubt the voracity of car advice and opinions coming out of financial magazines. Of course, everybody has an opinion.
  • Contrary to your tone, I think the 3 is a fine car. Worthy of accolades. I also think that the Lexus is a great car and worthy as well. I was just pointing out your negative slant that portrays the BMW as perfection and the Lexus as nothing.

    Considering all things being equal, the BMW get the nod (as it should due to it's longevity of being good. That is why the when it tied the Lexus, the BMW got top honors. The same just happened with the new G35.

    It is funny how the car magazines you point out as giving the BMW a runaway victory keeps saying it is a tie and is is only broken by the smallest margins. I would not be shocked if the new G35 wins the next round as it beat the older 3 series in C&D.

    My point is that all three excel and a buyer must determine whaat fits them best. The BMW for you, the Lexus for me. The difference is that I just don't have to convince myself that there is only one great option.

    PS - I think some posters need to get perspective. One can appreciate all 3 cars. There are things that I like in my friend's new 5 series that I wish Lexus had emulated and there are things he liked better in my Lexus and wished he had. BMW has dynamics, Lexus wins in luxury, and the Infiniti is in between.
  • "They care that the press for their IS350 isn't all that hot."

    Like Lexus cares how the press feels since the car sells like hot cakes!
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