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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    The current CTS is a dinosaur, and it still sells very well. BMW, has one competitive car segment to be proud of ? Whoopie !!!!

    Cadillac dominates the Luxury SUV market by a landslide, that's not being competitive ?

    The 2008 CTS, will send BMW, back to the drawing boards. The 08' CTS, was designed to exceed BMW's benchmarks with real technology, not some i-drive and faux steering system called "active steering" that even you BMW apologist admit is a pile of dung.

    Rocky
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Rocky, we all know you are one big domestic (especially GM) lover but this is getting outrageous.

    Cadillac dominates the Luxury SUV market by a landslide, that's not being competitive ?

    Caddy total truck sales:
    2004: 92269
    2005: 74143

    BMW total truck sales:
    2004: 69829
    2005: 68367

    Lexus total truck sales:
    2004: 151797
    2005: 151669

    If by that you meant Caddy dominates the Lux SUV market by a landslide then I rest my case.

    The 2008 CTS, will send BMW, back to the drawing boards

    Before we jumped to any conclusion let's see a 2008 CTS that's NOT ON THE DRAWING BOARD!!!

    Rocky, you have a tendency of having high hopes on future cars. Once those fairy tales of yours are broken you then either beat that car to death or continue your parade with another fairy tale. Examples:

    1. You used to have high hopes on 335i and claimed that'll be your next car.

    2. 2007 Acura TL will have SH-AWD and 300+ HP.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Wow, I'm sure glad you guys pay such close attention to my posts. :D

    1. You used to have high hopes on 335i and claimed that'll be your next car.

    Well it was going to be until BMW, didn't do anything to improve the cabin space and then on top of that they jacked the price sky high.

    2007 Acura TL will have SH-AWD and 300+ HP.

    Well that's what a Acura spokesmouth told me.

    I was referring to the 2007's. GM should sell over 100K 2007' Caddy truck units.

    Lexus has like 5 or 6 different truck models. Is that really a fair comparo ? They also don't make a large SUV either. Well if you call the LX 470 large. :confuse:

    Rocky
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Rocky, Lexus has 3 SUVs, LX470, GX470 and RX350. When are you going to do some research before posting?

    M
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    I guess I was counting the hybrid model as seperate and the Land Crusier is still a Toyota, right ?

    Rocky
  • dandrews1dandrews1 Posts: 184
    I agree totally. Jags are pretty rare around here, so they stand out more.

    BMW's are in every other driveway on my street, so they kind of look like a Civic to me (I'm being intentionally obtuse here.)

    No, I do like the BMW's, and I think the 3 Series is an excellent vehicle. The base model with a standard transmission is a real joy to drive.

    My original thread was just to point out that there are some small luxury brands that people tend to forget about.

    The Mercedes c-class is great value for the $ too..

    So if I had to make a shopping list of entry-level luxury cars, it would be the following: (in no particular order)

    Jaguar x-type sport, or sportwagon (I still love wagons!)
    BMW 3-Series (325i, 325xi Touring, or 330i)
    Mercedes C-Class (C280, or C350)
    Lexus IS350
    Infiniti G35 sedan
    Volvo S40 sedan, V50 wagon (debateable about whether this qualifies as 'luxury', but in my book, it does)


    And I think any of them would be great cars - the subjective part would be which particular car would be exceptional to me.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,226
    this thread isn't just about "entry level luxury", its about "entry level PERFORMANCE luxury." The X-type has no business here when it can't even perform up to generic family hauler specs.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    My line-up:

    2008' Cadillac CTS

    2008-2009' Holden Commodore/Pontiac Grand Prix HSV/GXP

    2009' Acura TL SH-AWD

    Lincoln MKS 3.7 V-6 350 hp.

    2007' Infiniti G35

    and maybe

    Dodge Charger SRT-8

    That's my short-list

    Rocky
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Well it was going to be until BMW, didn't do anything to improve the cabin space and then on top of that they jacked the price sky high.

    When did BMW jack the price of 335i sky high? I think they raised the base price for around $1500K (I think it's around something like that but not sure though) and I don't think that's bad at all considering the 50+ HP boost and twin turbo.

    Well that's what a Acura spokesmouth told me

    Car-Buying 101: Never trust a salesman.
    Sometimes a common sense and a little bit of research can prevent yourself looking like a fool. Changing from FWD to SH-AWD during MMC...Rocky, what were you thinking? :P

    I was referring to the 2007's. GM should sell over 100K 2007' Caddy truck units.

    Again, "should", "would", "ought to", "could" is not going to change the reality that Caddy is NOT dominating the Luxury market as well as the Luxury SUV market. How is it possible that you can refer to the 07' when some of them are not even on the dealers' lot yet. Sometimes it's good to have hard facts to back up your own statement instead of just pulling random *beep* out of your rear. Even a trip down to your local dealership for a test drive (335i maybe?) could help your credibility.

    Lexus has like 5 or 6 different truck models. Is that really a fair comparo ?

    Like merc1 said, Lexus has only 3 truck models - GX, LX and RX. The hybrid is only a variant with different engine of the RX lineup so it's not a separate model by itself (example: 335i/328i, IS350/250 and your beloved CTS 2.8L/3.6L). Also, and yes the Land Cruiser has always come with Toyota badge and still is.

    They also don't make a large SUV either. Well if you call the LX 470 large

    I did not see anywhere in your previous post stating anything about "large SUV". You only mentioned Caddy is dominating the "luxury truck market" by a landslide which by now we know that's not the truth.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Hey Pal :)

    When you give me the money to buy my next car, I'll have your opinions and buy the car you want me to. :)

    Until then.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    I'll bet that Rocky's line-up will get a make-over after:

    The 08' CTS is unveiled
    The 08'-09' Grand Prix is unveiled
    The 09' TL is unveiled

    and

    The final production version of the MKS is announced

    :P ...
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I would like to see the 3 series clean air diesel in the next few years. You can take your TL 300 hp SHAWD. I'll settle for no batteries and 50 mpg wrapped up in a BMW logo.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    FYI,

    Honda will also be releasing its version of clean air diesel within the next 3 years along with vehicles equipped with fuel cells, flex fuel and will augment its venerable VTEC engine.

    ;)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I'm not interested in Honda's version. :) BMW has been building diesels for years in Europe and they have a lot of experience in diesel engines. BMW is ready today with a clean air diesel, but won't release the car in the US unless it can be sold in all 50 states.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    That's fine. Just wanted to let those who seek anything other than a BMW know that there are alternatives.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    In the next 5 years, I'm going to bet there will be a lot of announcements regarding availability of clean air diesels.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    My bias towards BMWs is based on performance/handling.

    In terms of fuel efficiency my bias is towards Honda. Honda's first attempt with diesels in in the form of the Accord has received rave reviews in Europe and is compared to the much more expensive BMW 320d.
    And dont forget this is Honda's first attempt. I am sure their second generation diesels will be substantially improved.

    Also Honda is far ahead in terms of developing a mainstream fuel cell auto than any other manufacturer to date.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Ummmm, I doubt it because none of those cars will be over-priced like the 335i. For god sakes they put pleather in a $40K car. What's up with that ? :surprise: Even my Moms G6 has Nuance. :surprise:

    Rocky
  • Rocky,

    A 335i sedan with leather is 40.8k including shipping.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Rocky - try to custom order Lexus, try to custom order a BMW. Come back to the board, tell us which one is easier. The German manufacturers allow the whole car to be customized. Go to Porsches' website. Customize a Porsche. On a $100K Porsche you can add $200K options.

    Leather has zero, let me repeat, zero effect on 0-60, skidpad, slalom etc.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    For god sakes they put pleather in a $40K car. What's up with that ?

    Everyone knows it's so they can suck in all of the suckers with the lowest possible base price. The Euro is strong, the German unions rock and BMW rules. Just ante up and shut up.

    ;-)
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Just ante up and shut up.

    You are right, I should get me 2008' Caddy CTS. :P

    Rocky
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I hear ya... happy man, yooda man... ;-)
  • Overpriced 335i?

    I see you like to post a lot. A whole lot. As in, your last 10 posts were at 2;38 p.m. through 3:14 p.m. TODAY. And I suspect your previous 10 were in the previous hour. Unfortunately, the majority of these posts seem to be cluttered with misinformation. Very cluttered.

    My nephew is picking up a 335i coupe fully loaded with premium package (leather included), sport package, cold weather package and navigation at the factory (European Delievery Program) for $43,500 in December. For that price, they are throwing in a free session at BMW's performance driving school when he has time to go in the spring. By all measures of true quality and engineering, that is a very good deal.

    But I guess if you are inclined to buy GM junk for $20,000 to $30,000 that depreciates to about half that value in the first 18 months, $43,500 might seem like a lot of money. Or if you are inclined to have a non-challenging day job that allows you to spend hours posting 20-30 times a day on Edmunds, $43,500 might seem unachievable. I suspect you would be right on that count.

    The world is full of underachievers. BMW doesn't need to sell to them to be successful and personally, I hope they never lower themselves to doing that. Leather seating surfaces do not represent what makes BMW a superiorly engineered car, in case you've never driven one. You can put all the leather lipstick in the world on the GM pig and guess what you still have??? :confuse:

    If, in fact, $43,500 (or less, without the extra options) is too much for you to stomach, then make your choices accordingly. But don't chastise those who can afford a 335i as buying a car that is overpriced. Or suggest that a G6 with Lay-Z-Boy leather and Lay-Z-Boy handling can even be compared to a Honda Accord in quality, let alone a 335i. Or as an alternative, you might consider posting less and working harder so that eventually that $43,500 isn't so far out of reach. My company attorney (that I pay), makes enough in 1 hour a day to buy a new Ferrari 430 every year. Think about that when you are on your 20th post tomorrow.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    This argument about BMW being overpriced has been going on since the 70s. Back then a friggin' Chevy Monte Carlo was more luxurious than a 2002 and cost less. Some of us knew the difference. Has anything changed? No. The dood wants a Cadillac. I give him my blessings. Live and let live.

    "..but if this ever changing world in which we live in makes you give in and cry... say live and let die... bah, bomp bah... bah, bomp bah..."

    ;-)
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    ROTFLMAO, I'm sorry your butt hurt because I disagree with you and don't worship BMW's. I work 13 hr. days 4 days in a row then I get 4 days off. (on avg)

    Why do I give a rat what your company attorney gets paid ???? Do you own the company and over pay him ???? Just because you are self employed that makes your opinion better than mine ?

    I will easily pull in over $60,000 this yr. with zero Overtime. I'm in the top 20% in this country. I guess if that's being an under-achiever then label me as such. :surprise:

    It's not a matter of "if" I can afford a $43,500 car, but is the car "worth" $43,500. Most BMW's owners paid for the badge, rather than the car IMHO.

    I'm don't need to "attack you" the same like you did me to get my point across.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    The dood wants a Cadillac. I give him my blessings. Live and let live.

    Thanx designman, If you want a Bimmer, you have my blessings also.

    Rocky
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    but if this ever changing world in which we live in makes you give in and cry... say live and let die... bah, bomp bah... bah, bomp bah..."

    The soundtrack of the best James Bond film ever made. :shades:

    Not like those crappy Bond films they make nowadays. :lemon:
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "ROTFLMAO, I'm sorry your butt hurt because I disagree with you and don't worship BMW's. I work 13 hr. days 4 days in a row then I get 4 days off. (on avg)"

    It's not that you don't worship BMWs, the lord only knows you are entitled and everybody respects that. Your tagline seems to be wait until 2008 and BMW will be toast. 2008 is two years away, live in the now! By 2008 BMW will be superchargings its M5, the M3 will be putting out close to 900hp. The 335i will be sipping fuel at 40mpg, while averaging 4 secs to 60.

    Yeah I know, you still won't fit in the backseat.

    The CTS-V will beat it, but you'll need a trunk full of money for the gas.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    The soundtrack of the best James Bond film ever made.

    Also, it was one of the two best songs by McCartney after the Beatles broke up. IMO the other one was Maybe I'm Amazed. I also like Nobody Does It Better by Carly Simon. But we digress, that's why I tried to get things going in the Luxury Lounge. But as we know, cars are the most important things in life and we absolutely MUST come to definitive conclusions in these car-specific threads. Accordingly the Luxury Lounge is floundering.

    ;-)
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