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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Yikes pardon my misprint.

    I meant a 06 530xi touring. Although I do wish it was a 535xi.

    As far as I know there will be no 535xi during MY 07. I find it kind of strange that there is a double turbo 3 series and no double turbo 5 series at this point of time.
  • esfoadesfoad Posts: 210
    They are probably ramping up production of this motor and will extend it to other lines once it is proven.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    They are probably ramping up production of this motor and will extend it to other lines once it is proven.

    Now that is reassuring. That means my BMW335i is nothing more than a guinea pig for other models :sick:

    This is one risk I am definitely willing to take.
  • esfoadesfoad Posts: 210
    Not so much "guinea pig" with a quality company like BMW but a QA run for the larger engine runs "down the road", excuse the pun.
  • LEXUS IS 250
    • Excellent cost of ownership benefits fundamental to new Lexus IS
    • Class-leading insurance groups, from 12E
    • Major gains in standard servicing, maintenance and repair tabour time and costs
    • Designed for ease of repair
    • Exceptional residual values predicted by CAP Monitor - 47 per cent for IS 250 and 45 per cent for IS 250 SE after three years/60,000 miles

    If car-buying decisions depended on emotional factors alone, the new Lexus IS would prosper, with its distinctive dynamic styling, unmatched quality and exceptional driving performance. But most motorists have to take budget issues into consideration, too, and balance factors such as appearance and performance against the longer term impact of ownership on their finances.
    True to Lexus’s unmatched attention to detail, the IS makes substantial advances in cost of ownership benefits, setting class-leading standards and making the new car an even stronger proposition than the previous generation model.

    Lexus has achieved all-round improvements in efficiency in the standard programme of servicing and maintenance for the IS’s first 60,000 miles or three years. Compared to the previous generation model the contract servicing costs have been reduced by £288 (for models running on 17-inch tyres), while the cumulative length of time required to do the work has fallen by more than three hours to 5.1 hours.
    This has been achieved through a series of measures, including the adoption of longer-life or maintenance-free components. These include:
    • Maintenance-free valve clearances
    • Transmission oil that does not require changing during the vehicle’s lifetime
    • Air filter life extended from 30,000 to 40,000 miles
    • Engine coolant life extended from 30,000 to 100,000 miles
    • Brake pad replacement scheduled at 30,000 for front and 40,000 for rear
    • Engine uses mineral grade oil rather than expensive synthetic type
    Another important area in which the new Lexus IS excels compared to its principal rivals is in the cost of replacement parts. In the event of a typical front or rear collision, the repair parts costs for the Lexus work out substantially cheaper.
    For example, the combined cost of front-end elements, including bonnet, grille, bumper cover, wing, headlamp, radiator, front panel and air conditioning condenser, for the Audi A4 is almost 26 per cent greater than for the Lexus, while the Mercedes C-Class, Jaguar X-Type and BMW 3 Series range between 18 and 24 per cent more expensive. And it’s a similar story where the cost of rear-end components are concerned, too.
    Should crash repairs be necessary, the job of replacement has been made simpler, for example by introducing a bolt-on rather than welded front section. And the vehicle’s radiator and air conditioning condenser have been positioned so that they do not have to be removed for the repair to be effected, so coolant and refrigerant gas do not have to be replaced.
    These measures have had a positive impact on both the new IS’s UK insurance ratings and early industry predictions for residual values.
    In insurance terms, the new IS is launched with class-leading ratings, improving the levels attained by most of its principal rivals by one or two groups. The IS 250 has a 13E classification and the SE, SE-L and Sport (arriving in 2006) are in Group 14E. The diesel-powered IS 220d, to be launched in January next year, has been given a 12E rating, with SE, SE-L and sport versions in Group 13E.
    These compare, for example, to Group 15E and 12E for the equivalent petrol and diesel powered Audi A4; 15E and 14E for the Jaguar X-TYPE and BMW 3 Series; and 16A and 13A for the Mercedes-Benz C-Class.
    Furthermore, the all-round strengths and appeal of the new IS are set to make it a wise buy in terms of its retained value. CAP Monitor has calculated a residual value of 47 per cent for the IS 250 and 45 per cent for the IS 250 SE, figures two per cent higher in each case than the equivalent BMW 3 Series model.

    http://www.carpages.co.uk/lexus/lexus-is-250-15-11-05.asp
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "• Maintenance-free valve clearances
    • Transmission oil that does not require changing during the vehicle’s lifetime
    • Air filter life extended from 30,000 to 40,000 miles
    • Engine coolant life extended from 30,000 to 100,000 miles
    • Brake pad replacement scheduled at 30,000 for front and 40,000 for rear
    • Engine uses mineral grade oil rather than expensive synthetic type."


    Name one car newer than 10 years old that needs periodic valve adjustments.

    Lifetime transmission oil? Not in my lifetime.

    40,000 mile air filter? See above.

    100,000 mile coolant? See above.

    30,000 mile brake pad replacement? Not the way I drive.

    Mineral oil instead of synthetic? Not in my cars.

    I can't believe any car enthusiast publication would print this Lexus Corporate drivel. No sport sedan should be allowed to endure those maintenance intervals. You may not suffer during your personal 3 year lease, but the poor sap who buys this car used will be paying through the nose in deferred maintenance and premature component failure.

    I, for one, will never buy a used car without service records that detail regular, periodic fluid and filter replacement - the backbone of preventative maintenance!
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Amen to fedlawman's comments, and I would add:

    "the new Lexus IS would prosper, with its distinctive dynamic styling, unmatched quality and exceptional driving performance."

    I'll concede quality/reliability, but says who (dynamic styling) and compared to what (exceptional driving performance)?? That 1 for 3 batting average might win the World Series, but is hardly truth in advertising.

    "In insurance terms, the new IS is launched with class-leading ratings, improving the levels attained by most of its principal rivals"

    You don't think that has anything to do with Lexus' historic buyer demographic which has averaged somewhere between "retired" and "dead"? As my GEICO agent said, most Lexus SC430 accidents are bumper benders from ladies applying lipstick while driving...and that's Lexus "sports car". :cry:
  • Recently purchased a 2006 acura tl. It is a nice car but I find the ride very jittery on rough pavement which seems more prevalent than smooth pavement. I believe that cars in luxury sports sedan category should have a smoother ride. I do not have experience with other autos in this category. My question.........do other cars in the luxury sport segment ride better(less bumpy ride) than the TL? How about the 3 series BMW?
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    As matter of fact, TL is one of the softer rides in this category (IS, C-class and TL). BMW 3-series and G35 both have firmer suspensions.

    Maybe ES350 is the one you are looking for...
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,702
    One of the reasons I chose my '05 TL over the G35 was the TL's smoother, quieter ride. If you truly want a smooth ride under all conditions, I think you'll have to remove the "performance/sport" nomenclature from your sedan category of choice...

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • Mine don't fit! :cry: I know there must be some that fit. Do yours fit? Can you tell me what kind they are? Thanks!
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,305
    Make sure the tire air pressure is correct. Many cars are delivered with the pressure far too high -- left over from shipping to prevent flat-spotting.
  • edwardsfedwardsf Posts: 187
    Perhaps you just moved from a country where people actually felt that they should pay taxes to fix potholes? This 'leave with me with my hard earned money' ethos in the U.S. in the last few years is not doing much good if a guy can buy a luxury car and then complain about a jittery ride.
  • drewsrxdrewsrx Posts: 57
    Just recently, I got a chance to check out the new G35 Sport. I have to admit, it is a very spectacular overall package. It really feels more like a sports car than the previous version, yet it is also more refined and luxurious. The interior is far better than the first generation with higher quality materials and fit/finish.

    The engine is smoother, more powerful, and has more top end. The handling feels more secure and less twitchy than the previous car. Like the previous version, high-speed driving is a pleasure. I am really looking forward to trying out the 6-speed manual, but those will not be here for a while.

    I have not had a chance to drive the new 335i sedan to see how it compares, but hopefully will be able to soon. Although there will be a substantial price difference between the two, it will be interesting to see how these cars compete with one another. Between the BMW-3 and Infiniti-G, one can't go wrong.

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  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yeah that really does look a lot better than before. I never liked the previous G35 Sedan, but I loved the Coupe initially. This time around it looks like both the Sedan and Coupe will be equally desireable.

    M
  • piasonpiason Posts: 55
    What about tire replacement due to the two different front and rear sizes??
  • That really looks great. I myself have put a deposit down on a Lexus IS 350 with luxury and nav package. I currently drive an Acura TL. I loved the TL but the dealership experience left something to be desired despite my being a client for 7 yrs and two TL's. I really love the new IS 350. The styling inside and out as well as the performance are all just perfect for me. I don't drive on the edge of the car's abilities and I prefer something that isn't brutally hard in terms of the ride. The IS fits my preferences to a T. The new G35 isn't out yet here in Canada so I haven't had a chance to see or drive it. No doubt it will be great to drive from what the auto mags have said. Although the interior looks much improved I still prefer the IS's interior over the other cars that are in this discussion, no surprise since I chose it over the others. One big thing for me is the dealership experience. I am hopeful that Lexus will provide me with excellent service and quality. From the quality surveys done over the years I expect them to impress me rather than let me down as Acura has lately.
  • ckollckoll Posts: 8
    For many cars, it is obvious that the model platform is shared across manufacturers under the same corporate umbrella. For example, I own a Acura TL and the platform it was built from is the same (or real close) to a Honda Accord. I can see the same relationship between a Toyota Camry and a Lexus ES330 (or 350?). I am curious if there is a "shared" platform for the Lexus IS250/350 and the Infiniti G35 Sedan?

    I've looked at these cars and cannot identify where the IS is built from within the Toyota family. And the G35 appears different from the Maxima. I think it would be great if someone could help me (and others) with understanding what platform these entry level luxury cars are built from so that we can decide between the upscale model or the less prestigious sibling.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    To answer some of your questions...

    IS250/350 shares the platform with the GS350/430/450h. Since it's a RWD platform I do NOT believe it is shared with any other Toyota products except MAYBE some RWD models which are only available in Japan.

    I do not have information on which other Nissan/Infiniti product shares the platform with G35 (the M maybe?). However, I think the G35 coupe shares the platform with the 350Z (somebody please correct me if I am wrong). One thing that I am certain is that G35 does NOT share platform with Maxima because one is RWD (G35) and another is FWD (Maxima).
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    However, I think the G35 coupe shares the platform with the 350Z (somebody please correct me if I am wrong).

    Nope, you're correct. :)
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    IS250/350 shares the platform with the GS350/430/450h.

    But I believe you are incorrect on that one. :( The IS has a 107.5" wheelbase, nearly 5" shorter than the GS's 112.2". That's a pretty surefire indication they do not share the same platform.

    The TL and Accord share the same structural base "platform", but the suspension and chassis components are different, as are the engines, brakes, and many major mechanical components.

    The ES350 and Camry V6 are nearly mechanically identical - with the same platform, chassis, engine, etc.

    Whether this means anything depends upon your perspective. I think the G35 coupe is a commendable, nice handling 4 passenger coupe. But I think the 350Z is a sorry excuse for a "sports car", given it's bloated weight and relatively low revving engine that result from cost cutting and parts borrowing. I don't have any issue with our MDX sharing a few things in common with the Honda Pilot, but back when I owned a Honda S2000, I greatly appreciated that it was a completely ground up engineered sports car which borrowed nothing from the Honda/Acura spare parts bin.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    But I believe you are incorrect on that one. The IS has a 107.5" wheelbase, nearly 5" shorter than the GS's 112.2". That's a pretty surefire indication they do not share the same platform.

    That's not necessarily true either, since a lot of cars sharing the same platform have different wheelbase lengths as well. Case in point: The G35 Coupe has a 112.2" wheelbase, the 350Z? 104.3".
  • drewsrxdrewsrx Posts: 57
    These Nissan/Infiniti products all share the same FM/FM-L (Front-Midship/Front-Midship Large) platform:

    350Z (FM)
    G35 Coupe (FM)
    G35 Sedan (FM)
    FX35 (FM)
    FX45 (FM)
    M35 (FM-L)
    M45 (FM-L)

    The Lexus IS is based on a shortened version of the Lexus GS platform.

    The GS shares its platform with the Toyota Crown Athlete and Toyota Mark X in Japan.
  • kd6aw1kd6aw1 Posts: 116
    Rocky,

    Can tell that you are the smartest of the group. Have a 2003 G35 and it has been the best car I've had during my 76 years of life with many expensive cars in my past. Saw the 2007 G35 sedan on the weekend and will have a loaded one as soon as I can get it. I love and need her.

    Paul

    San Diego
  • qs0922qs0922 Posts: 11
    To sum it up in one sentence:

    "The 2007 G35 strikes the perfect balance between the BMW 3 and Lexus IS."

    Remember where you heard it.
  • drewsrxdrewsrx Posts: 57
    The 2007 Infiniti G35 pricing is out, and it is very aggressive!

    A fully loaded G35 Sport 6MT with Active-Steer will come in at around $40k:

    Models
    G35 - $31,450
    G35 Journey - $31,900
    G35x AWD - $33,950
    G35 Sport AT - $33,450
    G35 Sport 6MT - $32,250

    Options
    Sirius Satellite Radio - $300
    XM Satellite Radio - $300
    Technology Package - $1,100
    Sunroof - $1,000
    Premium Package- $2,350
    Premium Package AWD - $2,150
    Preformance Tire and Wheel Package - $400
    4-Wheel Active Steer Package - $1,500
    Rear Spoiler - $550
    Navigation Package - $2,100
    Wood Trim Package - $450

    Accessories
    Painted Splash Guards - $140
    Trunk Cargo Net - $50
    17-Inch Chrome Wheels (4-Set) - $1,440

    image
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    I would just add $1K to each of those listing price because it'll be IMPOSSIBLE to get one WITHOUT the sunroof. I can't believe Infiniti listed sunroof as an option for a car in this segment.

    Also, what's the difference between technology package and navigation package? Does the navigation package including the technology package?

    Edit: Here are the nav and tech package:

    Navigation Package
    - Infiniti Navigation System (hard disk drive-based) with touchscreen, Lane Guidance and 3-D building footprints
    - XM NavTraffic® providing Real-Time Traffic1 information
    - XM® satellite radio1
    - 9.5-gigabyte Music Box hard drive and compact flash slot for playing MP3 files
    - Infiniti Voice Recognition for climate control, audio and navigation systems
    Available on G35 Journey, G35x AWD and G35 Sport models. Requires Premium Package

    Technology Package
    - Intelligent Cruise Control (ICC) with preview braking
    - Adaptive Front lighting System (AFS)
    - RearView Monitor
    Available on G35 Journey, G35x AWD and G35 Sport models. Requires Premium and Navigation Packages

    A totally loaded G35 will be around $42K. Given that IS350 tops out at $45K and top of the line 335i at $50K I'd say that the new G's pricing is real competitive. However, there are still some options which the IS and 3er offer and the G doesn't have.
  • Why are these Entry Level Luxury cars topping into the mid forties these days?- it doesn't make any sense to me.I went to my local Lexus Dealer back on September 30th to purchase a GS350 AWD with the Navigation system and the sales manager was offering the car to me for 44K.So for a G35 to top out in the low to mid forties just doesn't add up.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Uh...I don't know which Lexus dealer you went to but a GS350 AWD with Navi has a MSRP of $52K (this is in Atlanta). So you are pretty much telling us that you are able to get one with $8K off. It's not that I don't believe you it's just that first of all, the GS350 just started to arrive at the dealers not long ago and second, selling them at $8K off sticker just seems not the Lexus way to do it. Maybe it was one of those leftover GS300s that the dealer is trying to get rid of? Otherwise you really need to share your dealer with us. :P

    It is common that a top of the line entry lux is in the similar price range with the next-model-up's stripped down model. For example, a top of the line IS350 is about the same price as a bare-bone GS350. For me, since all I want is the IS350's awesome engine and Lexus' refine interior and I can care less about Mark-Levinson and radar cruise; I was able to get a somewhat stripped down IS350 for about $35K back in March. Many others here (likely blueguy) will tell you that if all you want is BMW's awesome driving dynamics you can get a 335i for about $37K(? help me out here you Bimmer guys) with ED (not including ticket and lodging of course). At end it's all depend on what you want and you pay for it.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Uh...I don't know which Lexus dealer you went to but a GS350 AWD with Navi has a MSRP of $52K (this is in Atlanta).

    Uh, I don't know what you all are smoking in Atlanta, but a 2007 GS350 AWD w/ Navi has an MSRP of exactly $48,665 including destination here in DC. And even if you throw in the Mark Levison stereo in, the MSRP is still only $50,445. Based upon Lexus 13+% mark-up, the invoice on the GS350 AWD w/ Navi is $42,825, give or take a dollar.

    Do I believe billyperks could get a 2007 GS350 at $1,200 over invoice ($44k)? Based upon his relentless insistance that his former TL-S automatic could beat my former Maxima SE 5-speed, the answer is "yes". ;)

    FWIW, a business colleage of mine is trading his 1998 GS300 in for a 2007 GS350 AWD w/ navi & ML at $1,500 over invoice, the same discount he got on his GX470 a couple of years ago when they were a hot tax-deductable ticket in December, 2004. So what is up in Atlanta that dealers have you believing the MSRP is $3,300+ more than it actually is? Do they just assume that because you are from NASCAR country you don't have internet access or can't figure out the math? :P ;)
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