Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

1221222224226227585

Comments

  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Uh...correct me if I am wrong, isn't Cadillac a "domestic" brand?
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    Last time I checked the CTS was domestic?
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    It is and as you've seen it's not allowed because the majority in this forum are import biased and have set the guidlines.

    later,

    Rocky
  • Plekto,

    If BMW started to offer 5-10K off of their 2006 335i series, I'd have no problem including it.

    If you're really interested in the 335i, this is an aside, I suggest you drive one and then visit the ED forum. You can get one for about 5.5-6k off MSRP. Yes, I realize this involves a flight and a trip to Europe but some of us work it all together to get a vacation and a car.

    I did ED in 2006 with my 330i and unless something blows me away by december of 2007, I'll probably order a 335i for pickup in January/February of 08. The GTI and Mazdaspeed3 still call to my frugal side but my indulgent side (and girlfriend) encourage me to follow the fun.

    Anyway, my last ED trip involved flying to Munich and then driving through Germany, Austria, Switzerland and France. I probably spent over $2500 total over 2 weeks. So did I really save much on my car? I look at it this way, I got a fantastic experience, a great vaction and a new car all rolled into one. I was going to take a vacation anyway...I happened to pick up a car while on it. ;)

    In 2008, our flight will be free - frequent flyer miles - and we may spend only a week in Europe this time but we're still going to have some fun while picking up a new car. Plus the thrill of driving your car on the autobahn at 140+ mph is not to be missed. Wow.

    I realize not everyone wants to do this. But if you really, really dig the car, it's quite easy to knock over 5k off that sticker and have an automotive adventure unlike anything most people will ever experience.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,438
    no sulking allowed. ;)

    The CTS is in, the CTSV is not because it exceeds the price requirements.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,438
    The Signature L TownCar is just over $50k. ;b

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,438
    And yes, nationwide factory incentives are acceptable.

    See ... I don't know about this. You start walking in muddy waters when you introduce these concepts. What happens with Rock's CTSV gets a $10k discount and $3k more off for employee pricing or some such silly thing? Then we've got to redefine those included all over again. MSRP is safe, reliable, and somewhat consistent.

    Its one thing to include it when talking about the cars, but to include it when judging what does and does not belong is a mistake, IMHO. The 335i, for instance, doesn't need a pricing excuse. It starts under $40k, so it qualifies without discounting.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Well the 328 should be in and the 335i should be out because it's base price of $39K is thousands higher than the competition. Again I realize this is a no domestics allowed forum and certain models get a free pass. :P

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    With my "GMS" GM employee discount I can knock off about $6-7K off the MSRP putting me at $47-48K. Give me another $2K in rebates and I'm sitting at $45-$46K :P

    Rocky

    What if I buy one at the end of the year in Dallas, at a fire sale and save $10-13K ? :P
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Okay then let's remove the 350 as well. :sick Actually if you actually read what Pat posted, this forum is meant for vehicles that are the younger brothers of their more luxurious siblings. Lincoln is not a luxury car manufacturer, it is a near-luxury manufacturer. Caddy could be considered to be a luxury car manufacturer though.

    Whether you like it or not the 328/335 are siblings and are staying. Year end clearance price or fire sale price is not a criteria either.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Well the 328 should be in and the 335i should be out because it's base price of $39K is thousands higher than the competition.

    Okay, so following your line of thought...

    After we take out the 335i, we then have to take out the IS350 because without the 335i, it is thousands highter than the competition. After that the G35 Sport is out, then the TL then at the end we'll end up with NOTHING.

    There is nothing wrong for the 335i to be the most expensive of the pack, it's performance speaks for itself. If someone don't like it he/she can opt for the lesser 328i. After all, we are in a free country right?
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    With my "GMS" GM employee discount

    Can EVERY customer whom wants a CTS-V use the GM employee discount? Someone works for BMW can make a same argument on the 335i as well. Ditto a Toyota employee on the IS350.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    The MKZ, is the younger brother of the Town Car and soon to be MKS, so.....So the Lincoln Town car Signature-L isn't a luxury car anymore :surprise: ......Okay !!!!!

    I was only kidding on the year end fire sale. :P

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    GM, did give a employee discount to everyone a few years ago. :P

    Rocky
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "You forgot the 1991 GMC syclone 0-60 in 4.6 and the 1992-93 GMC Typhoon 0-60 in 5.3 straight from the factory."

    The key word being, "straight," like pretty much every American made vehicle...
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,438
    Well the 328 should be in and the 335i should be out because it's base price of $39K is thousands higher than the competition.

    Since the current price ceiling being discussed is around $40k, that's ok.

    Again I realize this is a no domestics allowed forum

    didn't i say no sulking? ;b

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,438
    Actually if you actually read what Pat posted, this forum is meant for vehicles that are the younger brothers of their more luxurious siblings. Lincoln is not a luxury car manufacturer, it is a near-luxury manufacturer.

    And if you followed the rest of that particular discussion, she said she was looking at those with a $50k car in the stable. Lincoln has one.

    So drop this "lincoln isn't luxury" BS. If you want to exclude it, then so must you exclude Acura. They are priced almost identically ($28k to $50k). Lincoln is excluded for now due to lacking performance.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    While Lincoln may be acceptable in this forum, nobody I know confuses Lincoln as a luxury manufacturer. Near luxury or semi luxury maybe.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    " Who in the heck is going to buy a $39K 335i with vinyl interior ? $44-45K is what the average 335i buyer will spend."

    I just built a 335i with "Dakota Leather Upholstery." MSRP is $40,845. Invoice is $38,187.

    The base 335i already comes very well equipped with everything the "average buyer" needs in a luxury car. Sure, you could spend thousands of dollars on "power folding outside mirrors" and "active cruise control." I wouldn't.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,438
    Opinions are certainly not against the law.

    Personally, my head hurts if i try to break down the manufacturers to such a degree. If we really tried, we could break manufacturers down into a dozen categories ... but that would just make too many damned discussions to follow. ;)

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • He straight up told me my 330i with leather, sport, pdc and comfort access was a "stripped" car. :confuse:
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Wow, busy forum today. My posts are obsolete by the time they pop up on the screen!

    GMS (supplier) and GM Employee pricing are two different things. Also, while I haven't checked on the Cadillac "V-cars" specifically, I do know that dealers generally don't extend Employee/Supplier pricing on specialty cars (like the Z06 for example).
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Personally, my head hurts if i try to break down the manufacturers to such a degree

    I'll give it a try... :P

    Common Brand:

    Everything that's not listed in the following 3 groups.

    Semi/Near Luxury:

    Acura
    Buick (maybe, maybe not)
    Lincoln
    Infiniti (this could go both way, luxury/semi-luxury)
    Volvo
    Saab

    Luxury:

    Audi
    BMW
    Cadillac
    Jaguar
    Lexus
    MB
    Land Rover

    Ultra Luxury/Prestigeous/Sports-Oriented:

    Austin Martin
    Bentley
    Ferrari
    Lamborghini
    Lotus
    Maserati
    Maybach
    Porsche
    Rolls-Royce
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    I know. Even the "base" model includes sunroof, auto dual-zone climate control, trip computer, rain-detect wipers, and power everything.

    If someone wants carbon fiber trim and laser cruise control, well they have to be willing to fork over the extra $$$$. I don't think the inclusion of these features should be considered when pricing the car for the "average buyer."

    Anyone who buys a Porsche, for example, knows to be careful with the options list. A $70,000 911 can quickly turn into a $100,000+ car just by checking a few boxes - with not a single performance upgrade among them!"
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,236
    Actually.. GMS is the employee program...

    The GM supplier program goes by a different term..

    I know.. that makes no sense... but, there you go....

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Oh, it must have changed since I last used the program (in 2002).

    There used to be two employee plans - an "A" and "B" plan. One was a flat discount off MSRP and the other was 5% off your best negotiated deal from dealer stock.

    I think those plans are gone now.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,281
    Lincoln is not a luxury brand and doesn't belong here.

    Well, that's good to know.

    My LS has RWD, a manual & a number of other features that people discuss here a lot. The company is certainly clueless & the car is extinct, but I only learned today that the Lincoln nameplate isn't luxury.

    Is Cadillac?
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Someone sure hates Volvo and Saab. Didnt even make his list of makers. :P

    Buick - no. *One* model that's maybe an Avalon competitor, but at 35K, it's still not by anyone's definition, "sporty".

    You might add in the upper-end VWs, though - a couple of nice models appear every so often. If the 350Z had a back seat and four doors... There are a few oddballs out there that might fit in like this, so don't count everything out. :)

    I think $35K is a good limit. $40K+ after delivery and taxes and such is really mainstream luxury territory. $35K also gives you enough room to add a few options and so on and end up out the door for under $40K.

    IMO, the MKZ fits the category. The CTS does as well. I suspect even maybe one of the upper-end VWs also might make the cut. It's a pretty wide category, afterall.
  • robbiegrobbieg Posts: 327
    Agree to disagree on the MKZ. It just doesn't do anything for me. I am not sure do you actually like the MKZ or do like the fact that it is cheaper than the BMW?
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Well for the record fedlawman, they do offer the GMS on the CTS-V, which I looked into a few years ago and also for the record I do know the difference between the GMS and GM supplier program. My father and both grandfather along with many relatives of mine worked for or currently work for GM.

    Rocky
Sign In or Register to comment.