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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Like I said a 335i with just basic leather interior without options is no better than a Mustang GT. Might as well save you $10-15K and get you a Mustang, since a stripped 335i isn't a luxury car. Geez people !!!

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    The key word being, "straight," like pretty much every American made vehicle...

    What's that suppose to mean ? I didn't know most BMW owners are out at the track every weeked racing around the Nurenburing, thus meaning great handling over straight-line performance is a stupid argument since most will use the straightline performance 90% of the time...

    Rocky

    P.S. I can name a few american cars that out handle your BMW's ;)
  • Volvo is wholly owned by ford. Saab by GM.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Geez people !!!"

    You don't think in your heart of hearts a 335i, which can outhandle and out perform a Mustang and cost $39 to the Mustang's $34K will be confused by anybody?

    Same with the CTS-V. Get a $39K 335i, save $15K and beat the pants off the CTS-V.

    Get over the fact you don't think a stripped 335i isn't a luxury car. The 335i is the consumate entry level vehicle and meets all of the criteria more than the other brands you have been mentioning.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    The GMS is the employee discount and can save you as much as 15.31% off MSRP. Avg. is 12% though. You will be into the dealers "holdback money"

    The GM-Supplier is about 5% off and a savy buyer can beat it quite easily.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    LOL, it's actually pretty funny when a car such as the MKZ, has luxury features not found in a BMW, and they say the Lincoln isn't the Luxury car. :confuse:

    Rocky
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    They don't say it, I said it. Outside of this forum, Lincoln is not a luxury manufacturer, you may feel differently. (IMO).

    So by your logic the amount of luxury is controlled by the feature set of the vehicle? The WRX STI has driver defined variable differential control and a watercooled intercooler, not found onn 99% of all cars including the MKZ? Therefore it has more luxury then the MKZ?
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I like the MKZ, and its not because it's sheer performance. I like the BMW 335i, also but my point was defending the MKZ, as a true entry-lux performance sedan. It has more power than some of the cars mentioned on this forum and is very competitive in price. It also doesn't miss on the luxury side of the equation like a stripped $39K 335i. ;)

    Rocky
  • robbiegrobbieg Posts: 327
    Here is how I would group them. I agree Buick is out. Lincoln probably too. Some of the more expensive Passats are close but miss out because they are lumped in with the Rabbits.

    In the first group are Volvo, Saab, Acura, Infiniti (though their prestige is rising again), and Cadillac.

    Next group, which is more prestigious, BMW, Audi, MB, Jaguar (minus the the x-type, no one thinks this a real Jaguar) and Lexus.

    While Lincoln and Buick have all of the bells and whistles, they are not in the same category as the others because they are not perceived as being as prestigious. The Hyundai Azerra has the bells and whistles but it misses mark for the same reason.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    You don't think in your heart of hearts a 335i, which can outhandle and out perform a Mustang and cost $39 to the Mustang's $34K will be confused by anybody?

    I was using the Mustang to be sarcastic but once I mention Shelby, then it becomes a different ball game. (I won't go there)

    Same with the CTS-V. Get a $39K 335i, save $15K and beat the pants off the CTS-V.

    We've already had this discussion and as I proved to you already the CTS-V does everything better than the 335i

    Next Question:

    Get over the fact you don't think a stripped 335i isn't a luxury car.

    If a stripped 335i is a luxury car then a kia sophia is then also. Come-on dude you are losing credibility. What is luxurious about a pleather 335i. For god sakes it doesn't have heated seats standard which is one of the basic gadgets found in a luxury car. Hell my moms G6 GTP has heated seats :confuse:

    The 335i is the consumate entry level vehicle and meets all of the criteria more than the other brands you have been mentioning.

    I'm not debating whether or not the 335i is the best. I was simpily pointing out the MKZ, should be allowed to stay since it has the credentials. ;)

    Rocky
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    He's being contrarian. The way your car is configured is the way 99% of the 3 series buyers get BMWs equipped. I do not buy cars loaded with a lot of useless crap. He does. So rather than focus on performance as a criteria, he focuses on doo-dads as a criteria. Nothing wrong with that, different strokes for different folks.

    Me I'd drive a stripper 335 anyday over an MKZ. At least the smile that's plastered to my face will never go away.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "We've already had this discussion and as I proved to you already the CTS-V does everything better than the 335i"

    Actually you've proved nothing because it isn't so.

    "If a stripped 335i is a luxury car then a kia sophia is then also"

    Okay by me.

    "Come-on dude you are losing credibility"

    Please don't even go there.

    Please stop with the CTS-V, it does not do one thing better than the 335i other than cost $15K more. Ok, it's slightly larger, if that's your fancy. Wait, you are referring to the 2008 model that will kill off the competition....
  • Rocky, what is special about heated seats? Honestly, i don't define build quality, exceptional handling and great engineering by worthless gadgetry. You assign more value to doodads than the actual quality of the car's performance. This is a luxury performance sedan forum, not a luxury car forum. You're in the wrong place - try the forum with the ES350.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Now you are taking what I said and blowing it way out of context and is ridiculous.

    Rocky
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Now you are taking what I said and blowing it way out of context and is ridiculous"

    You've been doing that for a while.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Agree buick is out because of its FWD and soft suspension. The MKZ has a sport-tuned suspension and RWD, which IMHO gives them enough clout to be mentioned. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I never said that everyone will configure their cars like me. I said the majority of folks will select the options I believe bluedotguy used at $46K I would logically assume most BMW drivers will stay in the $44-46K range with their 335i. If you are going to spend in the mid $40's buy ya a Shelby GT 500 and get a bigger smile. For the same price you get a extra 200 horsepower and will be the envy of most people in your local community both young and old. ;)

    Rocky
  • mkz is fwd or awd, not rwd...
  • nobody envies a guy in a 2007 ford.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    The 07' CTS-V vs the 335i I was actually using for comparison purposes. 0-60 in 4.6 0.92g's on the skidpad compared to 4.8 and 0.88g's and those are off the top of my head. :P

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Sorry, I knew better. ;)

    Rocky
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    The CTS-V does not belong here. The MKZ does not belong here.

    Once again, please create a discussion that suits your interests instead of trying to change this one.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    I did a google search for "lincoln mkz" and this was the 1st hit ("Official Lincoln Site"):

    http://www.lincoln.com/reachhigher/?section=MKZhome&sReferrer=189394|14539740|53- 561043|0

    I clicked on every link. I read the every bullet. There isn't a single reference to the suspension, sport-tuned or otherwise.

    If this is a sport sedan, Lincoln sure doesn't want consumers to know it.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Here's the price for a BMW 335i with heated leather seats...

    MSRP is $41,845. Invoice is $39,097.

    This car also has Dynamic Stability Control, Xenon headlights, Power seats/headrests with 2-driver memory (seats and mirrors), Multifunction steering wheel with Bluetooth controls, Engine start/stop button, Vehicle/key memory (retains HVAC, seat, mirror, and audio settings), Auto-climate control with rear controls, 2-way power moonroof, Dynamic cruise control, Rain sensing wipers, Logic7 surround sound with Aux input, and all the latest safety technology (brake fade compensation, brake drying, adaptive brake lights, etc.).

    You lost any trace of credibility you might have had when you compared this car to a Mustang and a Kia.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "Double-Wishbone Design

    The double-wishbone design is tuned to provide sporty performance. Understeer is reduced, and better contact with the road is increased for more consistent handling."


    That's all you could find?!?! The Honda Accord has had this for more than a decade.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I don't care what you are using. Post a link to these numbers with someplace that is a reliable source. I also read the 335i got to 60 in about 4.5 seconds with a skidpad of .93. For comparison purposes these are the numbers I'm using. Makes the other cars look like they are battery operated. :)
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,250
    Hey.. so does the new '07 BMW X5!!

    Not sure what that says about BMW, though...

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    It's a nice car but...

    #1 criteria on my list and several others as well as the original posting...

    MUST HAVE MANUAL TRANSMISSION.

    I don't care if it's a $35K Ferrari(if such a thing existed) - no stickshift - not a sports sedan.
  • Respectfully, Host, you are close to kicking Acura out with that price level of $50K.

    Chrysler and Hummer got left of the near and luxury brands list. However, I wouldn't put either here.

    IMHO, the listed cars belong here. Volvo, Jaguar and Lincoln are all luxury nameplates. However, they don't really make entry level luxury PERFORMANCE sedans. (The X-type comes the closest of these 3.)

    Now, back to the cars...sedans only

    3-series sedans (No M as it's a coupe anyway)
    9-3 sedan
    A4 sedans (NO S4,RS4)
    C-class sedans (NO AMG)
    CTS both engines (NO V)
    G35 SEDAN
    IS250/350
    TL (TSX is a European family sedan--i.e. Accord)

    I know a lot of people in this forum like to pick on BMW and Lexus for their higher MSRP's. However, I wonder if anyone has actually looked at the MSRP for the C350? (Hint: It's well in the mid 40's, too.)
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