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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Well, I'm just trying to stay unbiased.

    I agree that the MKZ's appearance doesn't really have much appeal to a driving enthusiast, but it's target audience is undeniably "entry-level luxury." What we don't know yet is whether or not "performance" is part of the equation.

    Doing even more research and giving the topic of the MKZ further thought, I realized that, although it has a lot in common with the TL (humble DNA, upscale features, etc.), the Lexus ES350 also falls into the same category.

    Reading the Lexus literature and reviewing the ES350 here at Edmonds, Lexus actually advertisess the size of the brakes, presence of front & rear sway bars, and the fully-independant suspension on the ES350.

    We all agree that the ES is not a performance car to be considered in this forum - but the TL is. The MKZ has the potential to be a TL rival at the test track given the sporting nature of the Mazda6 (especially when compared to the Accord), but until we drive the Lincoln, we just don't know.

    The enthusiast in me is guessing the MKZ is probably a wanna be ES350, but who knows - the Lincoln LS surprised everyone when it came out...
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Stevie Wonder would find the MKZ interior ugly to look at.

    I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I wouldn't want to see the girlfriends or wives of anyone that found that MKZ interior attractive. At least not on a full stomach.

    And some people wonder why the Big Three are lsoing money?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,673
    Your son-in-law's S60 was NOT an S60R. VERY different animals. That would be like saying a 325 and M3 are the same.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,673
    I had those seats in my 350Z. Nissan had them in the concept Z car, as well (whenever that was ... maybe 2000? 2001?). Nissan calls it burnt orange. I'm not sure if Infiniti would use the same name.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,720
    Yes, again as shown by comparison, the MKZ interior is just wrong. Although I'm sure that George Lucas loves having his brand on a billboard in the middle of the MKZ center stack!

    From what I've read/seen, the MKZ is not a bad car (but is it really worth the premium over a Fusion/Milan?) and I find the exterior to be handsome enough. But, really, other than Town Car drivers or those who look back fondly on the Aries K could admire the interior design of the MKZ??? And again, YMMV.

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • I notice you had to get a real life pic of the BMW interior and a factory pic of the MKZ to make the BMW look better.Shame on u.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Believe me he didn't have to. The BMW interior is better if you're a driver.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,720
    "...a factory pic of the MKZ to make the BMW look better.Shame on u."

    ? :confuse:

    Wouldn't a factory (and by that I'll assume you mean released by the manufacturer) supplied picture put the product in the best light possible? Why would a mfg. release unflattering pictures of their products?

    A "real life" picture could show driver/owner induced flaws (e.g. scuff marks, used leather, or in the case of my wife SPILLED COFFEE!!! :mad: ) that would put the interior in a less-flattering light.

    No shame here, just folks opinions on the interiors of select automobiles.

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • irstNav=Gallery#

    Its got a real life pic of MKZ interior see what Im talkin bout.
  • Click on the top first drive.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    I don't see any difference, still looks like crap to me...


  • I don't know how to post pics so why don't u post the pic of the MKZ with black interior for me.U probably don't want no one to see it cause u know the MKZ interior looks better.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "I notice you had to get a real life pic of the BMW interior and a factory pic of the MKZ to make the BMW look better.Shame on u."

    For crying out loud, that's what I get for doing someone a favor. For your info, I got them both from and I thought I was helping Flash11 out...

    If you think the pictures I posted are somehow inaccurate or unflattering, why don't you post some better ones yourself?

    Find the picture you like. Right click on it. Choose "properties" and highlight the complete URL. Right click on the highlighted text and choose "copy."

    Post a new message here. Put your cursor in the text area and press the "Img" button below. Paste the URL you copied and then push the "Img" button again.

    There, now you know how to do it too.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "I don't know how to post pics so why don't u post the pic of the MKZ with black interior for me.U probably don't want no one to see it cause u know the MKZ interior looks better."

    I think not knowing how to post pics is the least of your problems if you think the MKZ interior looks anything above "nauseous". Looking at that MKZ pic, I would think it would make for an ugly Ford pickup, minivan or SUV. But they actually use that in a Lincoln "entry level luxury performance sedan" and expect to compete with Lexus, BMW or Acura. :confuse: You have got to be kidding. Why don't they just replace the bucket seats with a front bench seat? At least that would give them something unique to try to brag about.

    Oh, and by the way, the BMW 335i interior shown has a serious flaw. It's shown with a slushbox. Still doesn't help the pitiful MKZ, but at least the deck wasn't stacked in favor of the BMW.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "Why don't they just replace the bucket seats with a front bench seat? At least that would give them something unique to try to brag about."

    That's for sure. It's sad really that there just aren't many cars left on the road that will allow you to execute an SOB right turn. :cry:

    What! Never heard of an SOB turn? Geez, I'm getting old. ;-)

    Best Regards,
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    There you go, black MKZ interior compares to TL, G35 and IS350's. With black it still looks like a POS. I actually prefer the woodtrim in the MKZ.




  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    I agree the grey looks better, but still not as fine as the original...

    62 Lincoln
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Striking resemblance...

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    The Z's aluminum interior is sharp ;)

  • The TL looks better with the quartz interior (grey).
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    It looks like that 62 Lincoln will accomodate a SOB right turn! I am assuming the center armrest flips up. Which makes it a more attractive package than the MKZ.

    Is it just me, or is the MKZ dash and center stck perfectly vertical. It's hardly the approprite profile for a driver oriented cockpit in a performance sedan. More like a UPS delivery truck. Looks like you are supposed to stand up while driving.
  • counciling to understand the continued defense of the Lincoln being on this thread.

    The Lincoln's interior is like a catheter = painful.

    The BMW'S is like viagra = you figure it out.
  • why don't you guys act like you are over 16 and get off this interior spitting contest.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "counciling to understand the continued defense of the Lincoln being on this thread."

    We are very fond of telling people to hold their opinions about a car unless they have actually driven it.

    I have tried to put aside my bias and consider the Lincoln based on it's potential as a member of this segment. Most of us enthusiasts here dismissed the MKZ without the benefit of seeing it in person, let alone driving it. We are quick to toss it aside because as enthusiasts, we are averse to it's appearance, brand identity, and pedestrian underpinnings.

    I have already made my point about how similar in concept and DNA the MKZ is to the TL - and I think my argument is sound.

    So, here's another observation - the majority of us also dislike the interior and/or exterior styling of the Cadillac CTS. Even with this consensus, we all pretty much agree that the CTS is an "entry-level luxury performance sedan" and a member of this segment - even if it's not our favorite member.

    So let's put aside our prejudice and reserve judgement until we see how the MKZ performs. We may hate the way it looks and what it represents, but if any of the Mazda6 responsiveness is hiding under all that chrome and wood, it might just be a demon on the track, OK?
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,720
    Sorry, bigbuck. And again, this is just imo, but while I like the exterior of the MKZ, that entire dash area just ruins what I'm sure is a decent ride. Wrong, wrong, wrong (but maybe not in '62, '72 or '82?). Especially compared with all the other ususal suspects as per the pix posted here. But, your opinion is no less valid than anyone else's. So, vote with you wallet, buy the MKZ and tell us all about it!

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,720
    Agreed, which is why my Abyss Blue TL has the Quartz interior!

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • According to GMInsiderNews GM revitalization plan depends largely on Saab competing in the luxury segment. Look like Saab is coming out with best line-up ever, if successful GM will be on the road to recovery

    9-3 vs 3series
    9-5 vs 5series
    9-9 vs 7series

    9-3 Sedan - Coming in 08 move aside 3-series. Born from Jets, founded by 16 aircraft engineers is really true with this A-pillarless, smooth roofline aerodynamic design
    9-3 Convertible - WOW - the legend continues
  • oldcemoldcem Posts: 309
    Read Car and Driver's review on the S60R, and, owners comments. 300HP is great - but, here in the mountains where I live - the little peaky turbo engine would drive me nuts. Its not a car I'd lay out $40+ grand for.

  • edwardsfedwardsf Posts: 188
    Mr. Fed, I love your posts but please spare us from more photos of the seriously ugly MKZ. The rectangular radio panel looks like the robot on the Jetsons. The big problem though with most American cars is their lack of nimbleness and road manners. This is not because Detroit has failed at it, it is because of the fools in management in Detroit who continue to make cars for Uncle Fred in Des Moine. Opel and Ford Europe have had wonderful cars for years but they are rarely if ever marketed here.

    Speaking of employees of Detroit, Flash, Rocky and Pletko glow over ONLY Fords and criticize every other car make out there. Either they are employed by Ford to pump their cars or these are some serious America homers.

    Um Ford guys, U.S. cars have never been nimble or good handling performance cars. I had a 68 Mustang - it was great car but my 71 Capri was much more nimble, had better road feel and was much quicker in the twisties. Things have only gotten worse for Detroit since then.

    Pat, Can we just get back to the subject of this thread?
  • Those guys are GM homers, not Ford homers.
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