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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • robbiegrobbieg Posts: 327
    Don't most Cadillac buyers buy the moonroof, automatic, leather and most of the luxury options. If bought this way, your are over 30K even with the incentives. Also, if you buy a manual transmission luxury car without a moonroof your resale will be terrible and I would imagine it would be even worse because I don't think there are too many buyers who want a manual Cadillac. Lastly, up north, heated seats are a required feature in any luxury car. Again, I think that an automatic CTS with the typical options except for nav. should be priced from the start at less than 30,000.
  • ROFL...yes most Caddy buyers don't want a manual. The idiot salesman at the Caddy dealership I visited to test drive the CTS kept telling me over and over again, "This is a Caddy. This is a luxury car."

    I took out their one dusty, neglected manual and he wouldn't let up on how the car feels totally different with an automatic. This joker couldn't even drive a manual! Yeah it feels different with an automatic...anemic, boring, mundane, placid - just like the rest of the cars in this class feel sans manual.

    That luxury caddy, BTW, had a price tag over 40k.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "I believe Rocky was referring to the IQS rating from J.D. Power on Global Assembly Plant Quality. Here is the report:"

    Thanks for the info, but it looks like Rocky needs to re-read it. Nothing about a Lansing Michigan plant period, let alone "#2 in the world".

    JD Powers was not the source of the list I saw. It was an independent assessment by, if I'm not mistaken, McKinnsey and Company.

    As much as I'd like to believe JD Powers - with their rating of Porsche beating Lexus for top quality brand this year - I have serious issues with their surveying methodology and extrapolated conclusions. To them, a failed transmission counts the same as a glitch in the nav system DVD. Not to me.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    RobbieG:
    I sure hope you showed him what the 3.6 with the manual can do.

    Yeah... just a *mite* bit different than the automatic. :P
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,388
    If you look at the Vehicle Dependability for '06 out of JDP, Caddy (153 defects/100) beats BMW (212/D/100).

    As you say, it depends on severity of the defects. McKinsey and Co. is a fee-based provider, so harder to get the data you mentioned.

    Regards,
    OW
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    http://www.roadandtrack.com/article...article_id=4444

    Rankings:

    1. IS 350
    2. Acura TL Type-s
    3. G 35 Sport
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Without reading the article, I don't see what the hell R&T could be on to come up with that ranking. They finishing order appears to be the exact opposite of what it should be.

    M
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    4.9 sec 0-60 & 14.5 quarter mile for the IS350...

    :surprise: Wow, that beats C & D's 5.1 sec from last year.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    Maybe they turned "off" VDIM :confuse:
  • Looks like they were leaning toward the Luxury side of the "entry-level luxury performance sedans". Especially since the IS350 makes do without a manual.

    I won't read the article, though. I've never liked R&T since I was a kid, and I don't know why I'd start now.
  • Uh, why no 335i? What is the Acura doing in there?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    They must have been, but then why test sports sedans and then look for luxury?

    Road and Track's comparos have always been *special*.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    It was Japanese-only comparo apparently.

    M
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    "They must have been, but then why test sports sedans and then look for luxury?"

    Why not? Personally, I enjoy having leather and other luxury goodies while I'm tooling down the road. Most of the time, I'm driving my ELLPS down a highway as opposed to a track.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    The Acura is in there because it was a comparo of entry level performance sedans from Japan. :surprise:
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Leather can be found on nearly anything nowadays, hardly a luxury item.

    It doesn't make sense to have a sports sedan comparo and then rank them by which one has the most "luxury".

    You don't need a track to enjoy a good sports sedan nor does a good sports sedan have to do without leather and other "luxury goodies".

    I'll have read the article and see exactly what they said because the face of it doesn't make any sense. Unless they found the IS350 to be as sporty as the G35 and TL while providing more luxury. I find that hard to believe in the case of the G35, the IS matching it in sportiness.

    Heck why not compare the ES350 to the TL and G35 if luxury is the focus?

    M
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    You should definately wait to read the article or at least watch the video before making assumptions that R&T ranked them by who had the most luxury.

    I guess R & T does not view the ES as a performance sedan.
  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    Thanks! I also subscribe to R&T and almost fell out of my chair laughing at this article. I suppose that if the only criterion is lap time, then the IS is not a bad car. But Heaven help anyone who actually has to drive one of these cars on a daily basis (and who is more than 5'8" tall). This car is (pardon me) for midgets. It is a complete joke for even average size people to sit in unless they like to recline and practically lay down while driving. When I went to drive it, the Lexus salesman tried to steer me to a GS and said that the IS "is a toy". He was right.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,776
    So they could satisfy Toyota as an advertiser and not trash the IS350's soft springs, numb steering, artificial brake pedal feel...among other things vs. a BMW.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • I've tracked the IS at a Lexus event and found the same thing to be true. Numb steering, poor suspension set up. Under steers like crazy, and didn't feel all that refined to me. Oh well, one for the Lexus crowd, I wouldn't own that car if they gave it to me.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    merc1, if you are going to critic R & T's comparo, at least watch their video first. In the video, they did not mention the reason that IS350 came up on top is due to the "luxury" factor.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    But Heaven help anyone who actually has to drive one of these cars on a daily basis

    I am 6'1", 185 lbs and the IS fits me fine. BTW I don't consider myself as a "midget". In the states I think my size is about average and maybe a little bit on the tall side so if I can fit in there fine then it's definitely not a joke for your "average size people". Also, I don't lay down while I am driving.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    So they could satisfy Toyota as an advertiser

    You are right, the IS350 definitely has softer springs, numb"er" steering and artificial brake pedal feel (whatever that is...) when comparing to the 3-series. However, what surprised me the most is that it comes out ahead of the new G35. Isn't the new G suppose to be the legitimate 3-series fighter from Japan? I almost cannot believe my eyes when I see that the TL-S beats the G as well. My expected ranking was suppose to be:

    G35 > TL-S > IS350 (TL-S beats IS350 due to the manual tranny factor)

    However, as one can see, R & T's ranking is exact the opposite. Now I can't wait to get my hand on the February issue.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Oh well, one for the Lexus crowd

    Haha, it's about time...

    I know the IS350 wouldn't stand a chance if it goes head-to-head with the 335i. However, it's good to know that at least one major car magazine thinks that it's the best Japanese has yet to offer. I haven't read the article yet (will tomorrow) but I think G35 will come up on top if they are considering "performance" alone. However, I believe it's IS350's overall package wins over the reviewers' votes.

    For those whom have read the article, please correct me if I am wrong.
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 972
    The previous generation IS was on the small side. I have not been in the new one.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,776
    be so cynical. Nissan & Infiniti spend a lot of $$$ advertising in R&T as well. I'll have to read the article, but I am shocked that the IS beat out a G35 Sport.

    Happy Holidays Everyone!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,687
    The video narrations starts with, "...mid-size luxury cars with sporting aspirations..." That's how I view my '05 TL, no problem with that definition.

    Merry Christmas ELLPS fans!

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    You should definately wait to read the article or at least watch the video before making assumptions that R&T ranked them by who had the most luxury.

    Well I said I was guessing because I hadn't read the review yet.

    I guess R & T does not view the ES as a performance sedan.

    How could anybody?

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    In the video, they did not mention the reason that IS350 came up on top is due to the "luxury" factor.

    Ok, never said that they did.

    M
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