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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,244
    Rear-wheel drive is important to me, for reasons that you may or may not care or know about.

    The WRX is supposed to blow everything else in the world out, so long as you don't mind the noise & other "issues." Sounds like the Mazdaspeed 6 may be in the same category. My #3 son & his wife have a standard Mazda 6 & really enjoy it.

    Bring me an Asian RWD car with a manual transmission and room to put my bicycle in the back. There -- I think I've refined my problem statement.

    Tell me the answer.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I wasn't being pejorative. It seems your preference for one option, the paddle shifters, which is important to you, not to me bumped the price up $10K. That's ridiculous on BMWs part I agree, but to me it's not a reason to get the 350 over the 335. Now because you like the 350 better and it comes with everything you want in the base model, it *is* a reason to get the 350 over the 335. But I believe most people wind up with one or more buyers wind up with pricey options on their 350. Just like I believe one or more 335 buyers will be very happy with the base model. And vice-versa.

    Most people would not base their final buying decision on paddle shifters, IMO.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Not just the paddle shifter, the 18" wheel is a must as well. I wonder how much does it cost to get the 18" wheel alone since the sports package is only $1,600.

    I agree with you. Yes, my reason to choose IS350 over 335i is because it comes with everything I want in the base model and I like its interior much more. Not because it has paddle shifter and 335i doesn't. I also think that to base the final decision on paddle shifters is ridiculous as well, however, once I got it, it's hard to go back.

    Also, let's keep in mind that the difference is around $10K. Even if I foregone the paddle shifter and 18" wheel the difference is still well over $8K. $1,600 for the sports package, I actually think that's a bargain. I wish I can get the sports package on a IS350 for that kind of price.
  • As always, we will have to wait and see. The CTS-V will be coming out after both of those. So it's all about preferences.
  • jensbjensb Posts: 3
    I like manual transmissions and I've realized I'm not going to be happy if I get an automatic. Apparently, I have the impossible dream for a car: manual transmission entry luxury sedan (e.g. four doors), xm radio, seat that flips down, real wheel drive. Doesn't seem like it should be that hard, but it is!

    I found out that I can convert BMW from Sirius to XM with an adaptor and I can order a seat that flips down so I thought I was getting close. But none of the dealerships around me have manuals to test drive. I did test one 3 series manual coupe in another state and found that my elbow hit the arm rest every time I shifted. It drove me crazy. Now my dealership is telling me that the arm rest is different if I order a sports package without the premium--e.g. that the sports package alone will solve the problem. Anyone know if there is any truth to that or if I'm being fed a line? It's really hard to buy a car if you can't test drive it.

    I keep getting such conflicting information. I was also recently told by my local Lexus dealership that I could order a 2007 Lexus IS manual with XM--but that's not what XM says (or what the Lexus webpages show).

    Any thoughts appreciated. (And, as far as recommendations, I've ruled out Acura and Saab--just not happy with the way they handle. Thanks, though.)
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Paddle shifter only comes with sports package and I don't like aftermarket rims on my car...

    Time to learn stickhift if you are so hung up on shifting manually with those paddle shifters. The difference in the 3 series is exactly the same as in the CTS - Automatic is a nice ride, but stickshift is like you lit a firecracker in its pants. Paddle shifters are at best a half-baked compromise.

    Very much a jekyl/hyde type of experience for both.(and me - Oh I want Mr. Hyde. ;) ) Never ever buying an automatic again.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Sorry, plekto, not a huge fan of manual tranny. I know how to drive one and it's fun to drive it once a while. However, as for my daily driver? No thanks, I'll stick with auto. Also, I am not and never would planning on track my car so for me I don't have the need to get one.

    I think I could foregone the paddle shifter and sports suspension if I can get the 18" wheel as a stand alone option. However, I am interesting to find out how much would that be since the whole sports package only cost $1,600.

    At best the difference between my ideal IS350 and my ideal 335i is still around $9K.
  • The guy loves talking about what might be. After the CTS arrives and fails to live up to his insane hype, we'll hear about the 2011 model forever!
  • Seriously...I would NEVER EVER put a chip or mod the engine on a $40K car.

    This ain't no Honda Civic ya know...


    Uh, there's a chip already in EVERY car. Tuners are simply reflashing the ECU or using a Xede attached to the ECU. No difference.

    Dinan will offer chips as they do for all BMW products and the chips could easily boost power to 350 hp/400 tq.
  • You know, you COULD just get the normal one without the sport package and... add aftermarket 18"ers for a lot less money.

    From Lexus site...


    Perforated leather-trimmed interior
    Power tilt-and-telescopic steering column
    Lexus Memory System to control power driver's and front passenger's seats (except lumbar), outside mirrors and steering wheel Standard on the bimmer
    Heated and ventilated front seats
    Aluminum sport pedals
    Aluminum doorsill scuff plates Standard on the bimmer ZSP
    Rain-sensing intermittent windshield wipers with mist cycle Standard on the bimmer
    Electrochromic (auto-dimming) outside mirrors with auto tilt-down in reverse standard on the bimmer
    Bi-xenon High-Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps Standard on the bimmer and a must have
    Adaptive Front Lighting System (AFS) Standard on the bimmer and a must have
    Sport-tuned suspension
    18 x 8.0-in alloy wheels with 225/40YR18 tires front [4], 18 x 8.5-in alloy wheels with 255/40YR18 tires rear [4]Standard on the bimmer ZSP


    So the Sport Package is more than just 18 inch wheels. Extra features, xenon lights (sad that this is extra) and a different suspension.

    Oh and that's $3700. Yeah, so suddenly the IS350 is around 40k.

    Hmm, 335i with leather, ZSP, comfort access, tilt mirror, bi-xenon swivels, seat memory, intermittent wipers is 38k via European Delivery. Easy call for me. The Lexus is more expensive, less fun to drive, doesn't handle as well, has a really bad automatic and costs a boatload more to keep up.

    BTW, good luck getting an IS350 with a sport package. :P
  • gave him several "must have" criteria:

    18" wheels
    comfort access
    real leather
    paddle shifter
    no navi

    By taking my request he went on his BMW web to search a car for me and came up with the following configuration:

    Sports package + Premium package + Auto tranny + Comfort access + Metallic paint.


    Whoa, why do you need the premium package then? That's an extra 1k. you can get leather without it. I just did you car, a 335i sedan, with leather, metallic, auto, sport, comfort and it's $44,795.

    That's 5k more than the similar IS350 with sports package - which is impossible to order through Lexus.
  • I did test one 3 series manual coupe in another state and found that my elbow hit the arm rest every time I shifted.

    You must shift like my sister - she grabs the shifter with her thumb on top of the shifter and fingers along it's shaft as if she were holding a joystick. honestly, there should never be a reason for your elbow to hit the recessed, nearly flush armrest unless you're purposely pointing your elbow down during shifting.

    Took me forever to find a manual 330 in 2003 as most dealers only had 325is in manual. Finally got my hands on a ZHP and it was over. 2006 was easier as manuals were available for testing everywhere. Check bimmerfest and you might find someone near you who will let you test drive his car.

    There's no difference between armrests.

    I keep getting such conflicting information. I was also recently told by my local Lexus dealership that I could order a 2007 Lexus IS manual with XM--but that's not what XM says (or what the Lexus webpages show).

    Ask for exact details on an IS order. They don't let you actually order your car. Lexus builds cars and one MIGHT be made that fits your desires. At BMW you order your car and get access to build info online to watch its progress. My Mulroney stick actually has my name on it.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,364
    Blue,

    Dinan has no availability for the E90 yet for a reflashed chip.

    From what I could find, the power gain per $ is really not worth it for any of the Dinan performance add-ons.

    Regards,
    OW
  • Dinan has no availability for the E90 yet for a reflashed chip.

    From what I could find, the power gain per $ is really not worth it for any of the Dinan performance add-ons.


    First, Dinan hasn't chipped a turbo BMW yet.

    Second, Dinan always offers chips for BMW cars.

    Third, even if Dinan only bumps HP/TQ 15/15 that's a nice jump. Other tuners are easily seeing 60/70 gains from first gen tuning.

    http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36987
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    blue, I know that you are a big fan of ED but that's just not an option for me.

    I guess to get the leather alone could be an option but the sales guy does have a point on not getting the premium package would hurt the resale value. Also, I would also like to have some goodies that the premium package has to offer such as homelink and digital compass. With the premium package the price comes to around $46K.

    Personally I really don't care much about IS' sports package. Like I said I am no where near as an enthusiast and the stock suspension works for me. I guess the bottom line is that I am really happy with the base IS350 + 18" wheel but would need many packages and options add on to the Bimmer in order to be satisfied.

    Oh well, that's just me though...

    PS. I agree that Xenon not being standard on the IS is crap. I think any car over $30K should have Xenon as standard feature. Even though it's not a deal breaker for me but I would very much like to have one. Good thing that Lexus now offers Xenon as stand alone option on the 07' not bundle to any packages. But that means we 06' owners were remain being screwed. :cry:
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,744
    I like manual transmissions and I've realized I'm not going to be happy if I get an automatic. Apparently, I have the impossible dream for a car: manual transmission entry luxury sedan (e.g. four doors), xm radio, seat that flips down, real wheel drive.

    Any thoughts appreciated.


    If you're willing to go AWD you could get an A4. It's a gorgeous car and handles almost as well as a bimmer. More luxurious as well.
  • The Saab 9-3 Sport Sedan and the 9-5 appear to be the safest in their respected classes.

    These crash tests show how far Saab has come and also how much they are set apart from other manufacturers in unparalled safety.

    http://www.saabhistory.com/2006/12/22/iihs-crash-test-saab-9-3-sport-sedan-2004/-

    http://www.saabhistory.com/2006/12/22/iihs-9-3-sport-sedan-crash-test-2003/

    http://www.saabhistory.com/2006/12/22/iihs-9-5-crash-test-footage-2002/

    There is even footage of the Saab moose test that Saab continues to do even today.

    http://www.saabhistory.com/2006/12/22/saab-900-moose-test-footage-1997/

    Let me know what your thoughts are.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    I'd like to be frank...

    I think Saab doesn't belong in this board, PERIOD.

    Again, that's just me though.
  • Not sure why ED is not an option. Guess you can't take one day off work. You're that important. The president can take weeks off but you can't take a monday off work?

    guess to get the leather alone could be an option but the sales guy does have a point on not getting the premium package would hurt the resale value.

    It won't hurt anything. It's a BMW, not a Lexus. You will always find a buyer for a BMW - leatherette, manual, no sunroof. There's always someone who wants it.

    Also, I would also like to have some goodies that the premium package has to offer such as homelink and digital compass.

    There's the answer. you want $20 in parts and then complain those $20 in parts ran the cost of the car up $1200. You can't have it both ways. You can't moan about the price or the resale (yeah, spend $1200 extra to sell it for $600 more 3 years later) and then say you want really want the worthless options amongst the $1200 premium.

    Personally I really don't care much about IS' sports package. Like I said I am no where near as an enthusiast and the stock suspension works for me. I guess the bottom line is that I am really happy with the base IS350 + 18" wheel

    Why do you want 18s then? If you're not an enthusiast and you don't drive it hard, 16s or 17s would work better for you.

    Let's be clear about what you're buying. A stripped IS350. No memory seats. No auto wipers. No bi-xenons. Yeah 07s have bi-xenons for a bargain price of $800. A base IS350 is 37k.
  • Why do you say this? This does not make any sense.

    The Saab brand is as much as a part of the automotive world as any other brand is.

    I am surprised to hear something like this. This is definitely a first.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Why I want 18"? It looks better.

    Yes, I got a stripped IS350 but luckily the stripped IS350 offers almost everything that I wanted. It'll be perfect if it comes with Xenon. Don't need memory seats or auto wipers. Most importantly the stripped IS comes with comfort access and REAL leather. I wouldn't mind to get a stripped 335i if it's equipped like the IS even though it's $2K more.

    By the way, I want everything in the premium package except bluetooth and heated seats so the "want-$20-but-ran-up-to-$1200" analogy doesn't make sense in my case. Come to think about it if I can get the 18" without sports package I could live without the paddle shifter. But first I would like to find out how much is the stand alone 18" option cost. If it's not far from $1,600 then there is no point. Of course it'll hurt the resale value and there's always someone wants a Lexus too, they are just not your kind of people. ;)

    ED sounds fun but it's just not my cup of cake.

    I think we are all mistaken the point of discussion here. In my original post I wasn't trying to compare 2 equal-equipped IS350 and 335i. I was comparing my ideal IS350 to my ideal 335i. It turns out the IS350 for me is base + 18" but the ideal 335i requires premium + sports + auto + comfort access + metallic. That's how I come up with the $10K difference.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I think that most folks around here, are not inclined to think of Saabs as "Entry-Level Luxury Performance Sedans". I know that after any number of test drives of 93s and 95s, I certainly don't, in spite if the fact that they can be had with three pedals under the dash.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,458
    "You must shift like my sister" RLMFAO!

    louiswei: You say that Ed isn't an option for you, but you have what seems like a decent amount of free time to go and test drive the G35 Sport and 335i :P Plus wasted 2 salesman's precious time.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Yeah, couldn't go anywhere during this holiday season because I am taking 2 weeks vacation in February to go to Taiwan for the Chinese New Year Celebration.

    Air fare and lodging also cost money ya know...

    :P
  • I don't know why you would say this, Saab has an unparalleled record for safety, performance, progressive technologies.

    It's not luxury bling like the "in your face brands, such as Mercedes, BMW or Lexus", but I think that's a good thing.

    It's got all you need, it just does not need to show it.

    The price certainly depicts entry-level.

    I guess I am confused as to why you are saying this. Could you back this up?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,901
    Born from Jets :surprise:

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • Folks,

    At least "kyfdx" knows what the current successful slogan is.

    I would like to hear your statements on why Saab should not be in this category.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Anybody whom knows Saab history know that slogan is FOS.

    That's like saying Mitsubishi is born from Jets too and Rolls Royce actually use turbine technology to create their cars...

    By the way, since now Honda builds airplanes too so all Hondas are "born from jets".

    :confuse:
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    I have no worry's because the 08' won't be a failure. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    saabhistory,

    I believe Saabs belong even though many as you've seen disagree. Saabs have as much performance if not more performance than a Acura TL, and many even believe that car belongs so I don't see how they could say Saabs don't belong and I honestly believe that it has more to do with the anti-GM bias instead of the stats of the car. ;)

    Okay I'm prepared to get attacked. :sick:

    Rocky
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