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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • lmacmillmacmil Posts: 1,756
    Here's another piece of anecdotal evidence: a work colleague of mine bought one of these. After less than a year she either sold it or got them to take it back on a lemon law case due to the amount of time it spent in the shop. Hope your luck is better.
  • jmairejmaire Posts: 3
    I just purchased an a4 and didn't look into the reliability of it prior to leasing, but I had a 2004 325i. It was in the shop a lot, all because of computer problems, I almost think they over enginer some of those cars with too many gadgets. The computer system would malfunction every couple weeks and I would have to take it in, finally they took the car back and i ended up getting an X5. Never had any problems with the X5 and haven't had any yet with the audi, which I love by the way!
  • pgsmithpgsmith Posts: 24
    Maybe the Audi shop has different magazines... ;)
  • neko608neko608 Posts: 58
    The only real contenders in this class are the BMW 3 series, Infiniti G35, and Leuxus IS 250/350

    A4 - for those who cannot afford an A6 (plus it is outdated)
    C-Class - for those who cannot afford an E-Class (plus it is outdated)
    TL - nice car, but it seems a little large for this segment
    CTS - no serious lux/sport sedan fan would even consider this atrocity

    Buckle up and hold on, because the new "big three" in this segment are going to be churning out some fantastic cars in the upcoming years!!!

    Be looking forward to the new IS500 V8 coupe and BMW twin-turbo 3 series coupe!
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    The A4 and C Class are only for people who can't afford the A6/E-Class?

    You believe this, yet don't believe the 3-Series and IS are only for people who can't afford the 5-Series/GS?

    I've always felt this line of reasoning (and it pops up here at Edmunds often) lacks merit in general, but applying this reasoning to Audi and M-B but not to BMW and Lexus just seems ignorant to me.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    I think you need to learn about three little letters - I, M, and O.

    The TL seems too big?

    You obviously haven't checked the dimensions of the G35 lately - 3500# and 112" wheelbase!?!?

    No serious lux/sport sedan fan would consider the CTS?

    You've never driven it, have you? You may not care for it (I don't either, BTW), but it is a capable performer and satisfying to drive.

    "Big 3" huh? IMO, there are at least 9 players in this segment (and Subaru and Mazda are knocking on the door and stealing sales). All of these companies have exciting cars on the horizon.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "A4 - for those who cannot afford an A6 (plus it is outdated)"

    Hmmm, it seems to me that the A4 in Quattro guise wins plenty of races (over the 3-Series and others) in the European car formulas. How is it not a contender?

    Best Regards,
    Shipo

    [edit]

    Ohhh, I see fedlawman took the bit in his mouth as well. ;-)
  • neko608neko608 Posts: 58
    The 3 series is currently the most sought after sport sedan, BMW designs it for people that are looking for a 3 series experience. MB designs the c-class for people that want a mercedes but cannot afford an E-Class price tag.

    The Lexus ES is built more for people that cannot afford their higher models.

    MB and Audi must feel this way too, since they put very little effort into their designs!

    I drove a CTS at GM event in Fall 2004...it's plain garbage. Drove like an Abrams tank and had an outdated interior.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Suffice to say that the above list of comments are your opinion and not true facts. Well, that may not be totally true; they are indeed "facts" to you.

    The flip side is that I will take issue with your assertion that the IS is a true contender. Geez, that car is simply a poseur car, especially with the Automatic only IS350. Yeesh!

    So, are my opinions/factoids any more accurate than yours? I doubt it. :blush:

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • neko608neko608 Posts: 58
    Come on man it is certainly NOT a poseur car. It's very fast and handles well, great engine and is based on a brand new platform.

    When I see a C-Class and an A-4 I just see that their respective companies simply have these cars available for people that like their brands but dont' want to pay a huge price tag. What did audi do with their "redesign?" Gave it all red tail lights and a beard!!

    Take a look at the A8L...gorgeous!! Why didn't as much thought go into improving the A4?

    Conversely, when BMW made the e90 3 series, they knew that it was immensely important to their brand, and they made huge improvements to it to respond to what 3 series customers were looking for, (more modern styling, more power, more lxury) and it's selling very well.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "Come on man it is certainly NOT a poseur car. It's very fast and handles well, great engine and is based on a brand new platform."

    Ahhh, I think you got my point. To me, ANY car in this class that cannot be had with a true three pedal manual transmission is a poseur car. My "opinion", which is of course, a "Fact" to me and ONLY me. ;-)

    Regarding your comparison of the 3-Series and A4 vis-à-vis the other cars in their lineup, that doesn't really hold water either. Why? Simply because the Audi A8 and A6 redesigns typically happen before the A4 (just as the 3-Series was the last BMW to be Bangalized). That having been said, Audi has a history of "Face Lifting" the A4 just prior to a complete redesign, and this seems to be the case here as well, given that an all new A4 is due out next year. As such, I think you've jumped the gun in your analogy by several months at the very least.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • neko608neko608 Posts: 58
    So are auto 3s and A4s (makes up about 80%-90% of sales, depending on who you ask) poseur cars?

    It was just a response to the market, maybe a mistake for Lexus, but not a huge one since the market for manuals is very small.

    I would like to enjoy a manual, but I just spend too much time in heavy traffic to deal with that.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,397
    Are different things to different people.

    Come on man it is certainly NOT a poseur car. It's very fast and handles well, great engine and is based on a brand new platform.

    I've driven the IS350. It certainly is FAST. Probably one of the fastest cars I've (in my short 14 years of driving exeprience) ever driven next to my Dad's '66 427 Corvette Roadster and a family friend's '89 Porsche 944 Turbo. I didn't like the way it handled, lots of body roll & too softly sprung my tastes (The copious use of I & my denotes this is in fact an opinion, not fact).

    As far as the stick thing goes, Lexus offers a manual in the IS250, it wouldn't hurt for them to put one in the IS350. If they don't sell, just yank it from production after the first 2 years. Simple as that. BMW, Audi, MB, Acura, Cadillac, Infiniti all offer 3 pedal versions of their respective cars in this segment. No matter how few manuals they sell, it is better than sending them to someone else's dealership.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    TL =large
    CTS an uninteresting/uninvolving/poorly engineer junkpile, imho (and i have driven it)
    A4 = lethargic
    C class = decent but no fun
    TSX = fun, needs more power and rwd
    A3 = fun, nimble, quick, great tranny
    Is250/350 = banal, no personality, understeering monster with a horrendous transmission
    G35 - quick, brutish, in your face, rough but still entertaining
    Mazdaspeed6 - quick, wallowy in corners, cruddy clutch, poorly geared, high strung and not very luxurious
    Legacy gt 2.5 - quick, unrefined, not worthy of its 28k sticker. more like 22-23k car.
    e90 330i - underpowered, bad tranny, sublime handling, good feedback

    I opted for the e90. I'll pick it up in munich in less than 3 weeks. I'm not wholly satisfied with it (my e46 is a far more engaging car to drive) but it'll have to do as the pickings in this segment are pretty much worthless to me. It's a two year lease, my eye on the purported 335i that will arrive in 07 or 08.

    Just my opinions. I voted with my money though, so this wasn't a hyopthetical exercise.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "I would like to enjoy a manual, but I just spend too much time in heavy traffic to deal with that"

    You suffer so much traffic that you can't own a manual tranny, yet you need a $35,000 sedan with sport suspension and 306hp?

    Your logic is astounding neko! Sorry I ever doubted you...ROTFLMAO!
  • neko608neko608 Posts: 58
    And your personality is "astounding."

    Why do you have to resort to personal attacks? I don't get why you MT afficionados are so pompous, whether you're driving a honda civic or a 5 series.

    If a 35,000 sedan with sport suspension and 250-300 hp is so "illogical" then why do so many people drive them?

    And if you didn't like my analysis, check out blueguydotcoms, who said that they all pretty much suck :surprise:
  • jamesspotjamesspot Posts: 57
    MOST people drive automatic transmission Camrys and Accords if they don't drive an SUV.

    This board is an alternate universe where each sedan is compared to a mythical sports machine that can outrun a Corvette, outhandle a Porsche 911, and still get front row valet parking when you go out to dinner with 4 people in the car. I want power and handling (at a price I can afford) in a comfortable, good-looking sedan.

    Most of this class is even sold with automatic transmissions against our sport sedan wishes. Nirvana for me would be a manual 4 door M3 at a $40k base price.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,397
    Nirvana for me would be a manual 4 door M3 at a $40k base price.

    You're a few years too late for that. The last 4 door M3 was the E36 produced from 1997-1999 (I think) that could be had for around $40K)

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • meateatermeateater Posts: 123
    I want power and handling (at a price I can afford) in a comfortable, good-looking sedan

    Then buy an Acura TL. For $31,000 you get great performance, handling, fuel economy, fit & finish, safety, comfort, electronics, looks .....etc.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "Then buy an Acura TL. For $31,000 you get great performance, handling, fuel economy, fit & finish, safety, comfort, electronics, looks .....etc."

    Simultanious translation for the preceeding post: etc=FWD :P

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
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