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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    You see, if you get the portable, you can wear it on your belt when you go for a run and it will tell you how to get back!

    Seriously, I believe there are new detachable navi systems which will allow the interchage between cars. This way, you can still keep all the do-dads attached to the windshield and still find your way! :blush:

    Regards,
    OW
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    But my running shorts don't have a belt, as it would clash with my black socks. :blush:

    Besides, if the Garman was small enough to wear on my belt and not slow down this sorry butt, it probably isn't big enough for my tastes in a car. The TL screen is 9", the MDX is 8". Even the grossly overpriced, hard to use 911 screen is 6", with very good resolution. The portable units I've seen have 3-4-5" screens that are pretty poor by comparison. I'm sure they've improved, but I still confess an economically irrational preference for an aesthetically attractive functionally integrated factory system.

    For what it's worth, I have plopped my laptop in the passenger seat of my 1995 Maxima with a $100 DeLorme GPS unit plugged into a USB port. The super high resolution 14" screen works great, so long as you aren't trying to draft a semi while looking down at the passenger seat.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    H1, I used to wear black socks with my shorts too! HaHaHa! In your case you can suction cup it to your foforehead:)

    I just think for all of your cars with a factory navi it's pretty dear to find your way. My point is, let's get a standard format so we can interchange between vehicles or take it with us wherever we go. Why keep ticking the $2K navi box?

    Regards,
    OW
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    One thing I will grant you is that at least if a Garman malfunctions or dies after a couple of years, you can either get it replaced or toss it and get the latest and greatest.

    Our MDX was in service for a total of 3 days dues to a haywire nav system. Showed us paddling in the Atlantic on the way back from Boston to DC. It took a couple of attempts to fix it, finally achieved by replacing the entire disk unit under the seat. Under warranty and my wife got a new 2007 MDX as a loaner, but still a pain in the butt. And what happens if the screen goes dead in year 5 or 6 of of our planned 7-8 year "buy and hold" strategy? I'm a little surprised there is no difference in the cost of an extended warranty for the various MDX (or TL) models even though ours has both the Navi and rear DVD/Entertainment systems and both are covered. While my 1995 Maxima runs like a top mechanically after 12 years and 155k miles, I think I've been through at least 5 desktop/laptop computers during that time.

    In the case of the 911, there was no box to tick. I took an in-stock car for $10k+ off MSRP when local dealers were barely discounting an ordered car. So even if it goes dead, I'm well ahead dollar wise.
  • I have to agree with you. I have a TL with nav and I would never purchase one again in the car. We have used it soooooo few times. I will buy a portable one and take it from car to car from now on.
    Like someone else said, when it becomes std equipment for 400 extra, I might consider it.
    The portable one in my airplane sure gets used a lot though. Never leave home without it. Stay out of those controlled airspace areas.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    You never leave Class G?!?!
  • EVERY ELLPS has navigation available.

    Mobile Link? Do you mean Bluetooth? The only one that lacks it is the Cadillac CTS--sigh.

    DVD in the center stack? The Lexus IS is the only ELLPS that has it. If you are willing to go pre-owned, you can look at the Cadillac STS and the Infiniti M. Both of those allow playing of DVD movies through their center screens.

    MP3s? MP3s on CD or an AUX jack. All of the ELLPS play MP3 CD's. Current CTS's don't do this without aftermarket. This will be resolved for the 2008 model year.

    Premium sound? That's highly subjective. Toyota has a premium sound 9-speaker JBL option on the Prius. It doesn't even include a subwoofer.

    Dallas? You can get great deals up there. If they won't play in Dallas, check with the dealers in Houston or San Antonio. (I doubt the Austin dealers other than Acura will be cheaper than Dallas since there's so little competition here.)

    Good luck.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    08' CTS will have bluetooth, 40 GIG hard drive w/ Bose 5.1, Swivel bi-xenon headlamps, double sunroof, special noice cancelation hood made of aluminum, ventilated seats, heated F/R seats, SAT/NAV that telescopes up out of stack and when not in use it displays non-nav info, direct-injection, vertical LED "light pipes", Perforated noice cancelation material in tailpipes, these are to name a few. ;)

    Rocky
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    And what would want to entice me to buy this car? No doubt the CTS will appeal to diehard CTS fans, but I think Cadillac will go under when BMW releases it's tri-turbo 345i model slated as a 2010 model. Sporting 1000hp/1000 torque, it signals a new era for the 3 series and for BMW. It will run a combination of gas/diesel and or hydrogen.

    That car is rumored to have 1 terabyte of solid-state memory with a PCI-Express uplink bus as the nerve-fiber that connects all components. It's brain is rumored to be quad-core Intel chips run Linux-mobile. It will have 35 speakers on the Logic-10 system will support 10.2 surround sound. It will also support HD-DVD and Blu-ray audio discs.

    More details to follow...
  • pv2pv2 Posts: 37
    Suggest that posts to this board stick with currently available cars IMHO. Too often features that are projected to appear on future cars don't arrive or have different characteristics. Next maybe we'll be projecting performance figures like one car magazine has already done. Let's have a dose of reality; this board is valuable for perspectives of those who actually own or have driven some of the curren ELLPS, not the hyperbole of marketers.
    PV2
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I agree with pv2 and will also add based on BMW's track record I doubt half of that technology you listed really works and BMW's reliability track record suggests that kind of car will spend most of it's time in the shop while I'm out cruising in my poor CTS. BTW cost of that car won't put it in the ELLPS segment as it would cost six-seven figures but perhaps in 3 years we will allow cars in that price segment to to be considered as a ELLPS ???? :P

    Rocky
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    Electric and Hybrid technology will obviate the engine as we know it. This will happen in all segments. Projecting no changes except more power current performance numbers and styling cues gets quite boring. Just like the US auto industry. I love seeing all of those 12 MPG SUV's just sitting there on GM's and F.O.R.D.' s dealer lots. I do not see that at BMW, Lexus and Infinity. This tells me the bleeding continues which will force major changes that just are inevitable.

    Let's project the future in what we really want to see happen in the ELLPS of the future as well as what is happening now.

    Just my opinion.

    Regards,
    OW
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    This tells me the bleeding continues which will force major changes that just are inevitable.

    I'm not sure where you live OW, but I don't see that problem in my neck of the woods.

    I think in the near future you will witness a policy change that will reverse the fortunes. (That is a topic for another discussion) ;)

    GM, is doing very well here in the Texas Panhandle and many friends are excited about the 08' CTS

    Rocky
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I guess you and rocky were a little too slow to see that kdshapiro was exercising a little satiric humor with his post about the 1,000 hp 345i? :confuse:

    It's not kd or me or others here, but rather Rocky that seems to be the one constantly living in the future, hoping against history that somehow GM and Ford's next generation of vehicles won't be as pitifully uncompetitive as the current batch or previous 2-3+ decades worth.

    Rocky, if GM is "doing just fine" on the Texas panhandle, that's great. But I have at least two former business school classmates that have higher net worths than the market capitalization of Ford and GM. They are not doing well on any level of business metric. In my opinion, the future (if there is one) of American car manufacturers no longer rests with Ford or GM as we know them. It's time for a new compnay to be created by business and engineering professionals backed by private equity to develop and produce cars truly competitive with BMW, Honda and Porsche. The GM and Ford images have gotten to be far too heavy baggage, not to mention their legacy labor and management problems.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    habitat,

    you ran that story of how rich your buddy's by me a few months ago. I know you rub elbows with the Trumps, Hiltons, Gates. *cough* BS

    Well I'm not sure what this all has to do with ELLPS's but when I was referring to the 08' CTS it was a realistic car and sited sources to back me including edmunds. I know kdshapiro, was enjoying the oppertunity to lob a "cheap shot" my way as I don't post much in the ELLPS forum.

    Well I'm sure you enjoyed it and maybe your uncle who you will claim is the "Sultan of Dubai" will buy you one of those BMW 345i's before they come out via hitting speed dial to Stuggart ;)

    Rocky
  • Rocky, I'm hoping GM (and even Ford) succeeds as much as you do. However, you post in the ELLPS forum quite a lot. I have to call you on that one.

    I do need to make a correction. The current Cadillac CTS does play MP3 CD's. It just doesn't have an AUX jack for MP3/Minidisc/Handheld music players like pretty much every mass market car that's not a Porsche does. (Yes, it will be resolved w/ the 2008 CTS that won't be out until Aug/Sept. So, it's not available now. Therefore, it doesn't have it.)
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    I do not see a US stamp on any future next gen technology (except the privete firms that Habitat1 relates). Here is an example that will no doubt come to a 3'er real soon.

    BMW has announced the introduction of the new BMW Hydrogen 7, the world's first hydrogen-drive luxury performance automobile. The car - a vehicle that has undergone the regular Product Development Process - will be built in a limited series in Europe and driven in the US and other countries by selected users in 2007.

    That is why GM and Ford will morph into an international real soon. My guess is 2010.

    Regards,
    OW
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    What I find interesting is that so many peolpe are deriding Cadillac for things like nav and bluetooth and AWD and...

    What part of "entry-level" isn't sinking in?

    Entry-level at $30K certainly can suffer from a few less frills, IMO.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Here is an example that will no doubt come to a 3'er real soon.

    BMW has announced the introduction of the new BMW Hydrogen 7, the world's first hydrogen-drive luxury performance automobile. The car - a vehicle that has undergone the regular Product Development Process - will be built in a limited series in Europe and driven in the US and other countries by selected users in 2007.


    Don't hold your breath. Hydrogen internal combustion engines are going nowhere in the near future. There's hardly any hydrogen to put in them and creating an infrastructure is expensive and problematic.
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 972
    How about including a device near the motor which would cheaply and efficiently remove hydrogen from the water in the water (fuel) tank? That hydrogen could be used to explode in the motor. Exhaust gas...oxygen and water vapor.
    Its been done before. But it got its inventor, Mr. Meyer, murdered.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    Don't hold your breath.

    Pretty soon, without a change from the petroleum dependance and air pollution, we will not be able to take one, let alone hold one.

    I agree the infrastructure isn't there and would take time to build but if you add this tech to the hybrid and later pure electric propulsion, we can and will make "clean transportation" reality. How many 3 series would be sold if one could plug them in overnight. Better yet, as energy cell tech is perfected, we could plug our houses into the car after a long days drive!

    It reminds me of the insurance commercial with the cave men...It's so easy, (read:inevitable) a cave man could make it happen! After all, they did invent the wheel, whose earliest version was the first run-flat ever used! WILMA! :)

    Regards,
    OW
  • I'm in the market for a slightly used 06 or 05 G sedan but notice that prices range considerably not necessarily linked to mileage. Are there different (and 'preferred') pkgs that I should be looking for? Thanks!
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,751
    How about including a device near the motor which would cheaply and efficiently remove hydrogen from the water in the water (fuel) tank? That hydrogen could be used to explode in the motor. Exhaust gas...oxygen and water vapor.

    Excuse me while I (hahahahah!!!!!). Uh, it takes the same amount of energy to separate the water into hydrogen and oxygen as you get back when you burnt the hydrogen to produce the same water again. Ain't going to happen unless you want to power that with gas or something silly like that.
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 972
    Your statement, "...same amount of energy to separate the water into hydrogen and oxygen as you get back when you burnt the hydrogen..." has no basis in fact at all. There is no reason for you to think the two would be equal.
    Granted, many devices which can disassociate hydrogen from water use more electricity than it would have taken to power the car with electricity in the first place, but not ALL devices are so wasteful of electricity.
    And another thing, those of you touting all electric pollution free cars may be disappointed to find out that some of the electricity producers pollute the air and water to make that electricity needed to charge the cars.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,751
    Granted, many devices which can disassociate hydrogen from water use more electricity than it would have taken to power the car with electricity in the first place, but not ALL devices are so wasteful of electricity.

    This is basic thermodynamics. The energy required to decompose water

    2H20 >> H2 + 2O2

    is exactly the same amount of energy you get back when you burn the hydrogen

    H2 + 2O2 >> 2H20

    but since no machines are thermodynamically perfect, you in fact would get less energy back than you spent in the decomposition of the water in the first place. If this were not the case (and don't we all wish that were the case) then you could build a perpeptual motion machine.

    You can use electricity, gasoline, solar power, nuclear energy -- but you are not going to get more energy out of burning the hydrogen than you had to put in to decompose it in the first place. That is why hydrogen is best thought of as a carrier of energy, not a source of energy.

    Please show me the devices you mention that are "not so wasteful of electricity". This sounds like Nobel prize winning material, as new physical laws have been discovered!
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 972
    I don't have one of those devices so I cannot show you. Mr. Meyer did, and was murdered because of it. Do a Google search.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Oh puleeze, "Mr. Stanley Meyer" was a con artist who singularly failed in his attempts to repeal the laws of thermodynamics.

    Previous statements:

    "How about including a device near the motor which would cheaply and efficiently remove hydrogen from the water in the water (fuel) tank? That hydrogen could be used to explode in the motor. Exhaust gas...oxygen and water vapor.
    Its been done before. But it got its inventor, Mr. Meyer, murdered."


    Hark! Conspiracy theorists unite, here is another cause célèbre.

    "Granted, many devices which can disassociate hydrogen from water use more electricity than it would have taken to power the car with electricity in the first place, but not ALL devices are so wasteful of electricity."

    Nope, the laws of physics and thermodynamics are quite rigid and don't bend even for the likes of "Mr. Meyer".

    "I don't have one of those devices so I cannot show you. Mr. Meyer did, and was murdered because of it. Do a Google search."

    Murdered? You've got to be kidding. The dude was found to be a fraud in a court of law in 1996 and died of a cerebral aneurysm a couple of years later. What perpetual motion machine? What murder? Didn't happen and didn't exist.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "Please show me the devices you mention that are "not so wasteful of electricity". This sounds like Nobel prize winning material, as new physical laws have been discovered!"

    Agreed. And from the looks of it, we have a few more posters in need of remedial physics and chemistry courses than are candidates for the Nobel Prize. ;)

    Attempting to first split water into hydrogen and oxygen and then recombining them to produce energy is a SIGNIFICANT net energy LOSS, as that first step is very energy inefficient. Producing hydrogen from natural gas is more efficient, but requires the burning of fossil fuels. The company, H2Gen, based in Alexandrai Virginia is one of the leaders in the development of Hydrogen fuel cell technology. If anyone cares to learn a little more google their web site.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Try this discussion: Infiniti G35 Sedan.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    However, you post in the ELLPS forum quite a lot. I have to call you on that one.

    I use to post here quite a bit which I admit. I don't as often because of certain circumstances.

    Rocky
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