Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

1260261263265266860

Comments

  • wvelezwvelez Posts: 16
    May I ask how you were able to get such a big discount, and from where? Thanks.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    European delivery. I was taking a vacation there anyway...decided to pick up a car. :)
  • mikeinmdmikeinmd Posts: 23
    My last post was simply addressing the MSRP vs MSRP discussion. If you want to talk handling and auto tranny, those are separate discussions.

    Price is not a "real" factor to "90%" of buyers? I think your percentage is unrealistic. In my opinion, folks with no regard for price are probably looking at DB9's (I would be).

    Specific to BMW pricing, paying north of 40K for a car and then having to pay extra for "metallic paint" and leather is a financial slap in the face - I would not buy it on principle.

    I know these companies try to max their profit, and if someone whated to pay 50K they would be happy to take it....even with the CD changer in the glove box or "keyless" ignition that requires a key to be inserted, etc.

    P.S. I do not own a Lexus, but probably will in '07, and I have, previously, considered/test drove a 3 series.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    " Price is not a "real" factor to "90%" of buyers?"

    When one is talking 42K and beyond price a few thousand here or there will not make a substantial difference. MSRP to MSRP is meaningless because it says nothing about how much the car actually costs OTD in your situation especially in a lease vs buy scenario.

    Most people do not cross-shop only on price, generally feature/function/form enter the decision as well. As blueguy noted above, he picked up his 330i for 36K. Try picking up an IS350 for that. If Lexus was your thing you'd end up with an IS250.
  • mikeinmdmikeinmd Posts: 23
    As blueguy noted above, he picked up his 330i for 36K. Try picking up an IS350 for that.

    Would I have to fly to Japan?

    MSRP is only "meaningless" if someone does not like the BMW comparison. It is not meaningless to me - and the content, dollar for dollar, was clearly stated in a previous post.

    We all have our own defination of "substantial" (difference in price).

    Bluedot has been promoting Euro delivery for (at least) the two years I have followed these forums...
    But, why should someone have to fly to another continent to get a "decent" price on a car? A "reasonable" price should be available here in the US.

    Again, if I would pay more for a Lexus (vs. Euro delivery of a BMW) it looks much more reasonable (to me) due to the features/content, build quality/reliability, customer service, etc. (not based on my opinion but the hundreds of opinions available on Edmunds forums and across the Internet.

    When all is said and done, the BMW owners (like yourself) will find their personal reasons to buy a BMW and Lexus owners/admirers will do the same. (and, of course, these market forces help to keep a healthy competition (price and otherwise) - to our benefit.

    Happy motoring
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "It is not meaningless to me"

    My guess as to why it's meaningless is that you actually pay MSRP. As I don't pay MSRP, I evaluate feature/function/form/price. In other words I decide whether a vehicle is worth it or not.

    "But, why should someone have to fly to another continent to get a "decent" price on a car? A "reasonable" price should be available here in the US."

    The idea of a European vacation to pick up your car at a discount is a very appealing one indeed.

    "Again, if I would pay more for a Lexus"

    We each have our own priorities. I would pay for the BMW for the exact reasons you mention.

    "When all is said and done, the BMW owners (like yourself) will find their personal reasons to buy a BMW and Lexus owners/admirers will do the same"

    Yes agreed.
  • primetime79primetime79 Posts: 18
    I GUESS EVERYONE IS HUNG UP ON THE WHOLE MSRP AND VALUE THING. I GUESS THE BOTTOM LINE IS VALUE IS IN THE EYE OF THE PURCHASER. THAT BEING SAID NO ONE ADDRESSED MY QUESTION ABOUT BMW BEING UNDER POWERED. I PERSONALLY THING THIS IS A LEGITIMATE CONCERN. A 330I IS NOW RELATIVELY AS FAST AS A 2007 TOYOTA CAMRY AND NOT MUCH FASTER THAN MY WIFES 2005 NISSAN PATHFINDER. WHATEVER HAPPENED TO "THE ULTIMATE DRIVING MACHINE." TO JUST MAKE UP AN EXCUSE AND SAY THAT THIS IS ONLY ONE ASPECT OF THE DRIVING EXPERIENCE IS INADEQUATE. BMW NEEDS TO STEP IT UP HERE. PERSONALLY I THINK THEY HAVE TAKEN NOTE OF THIS WITH THE NEW 335I. WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK? THIS WAS ONE OF THE PRIMARY REASONS I DID NOT BUY THE 330I BESIDES THE UNDERSTATED INTERIOR. THE CAR FOR A COMPANY OF THIS CALIBERS REPUTATION FEELS EXTREMELY SLOW ON ACCELERATION.
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Posts: 351
    Please stop YELLING! Why not consider a used Camaro Z28 if 0-60 is your criteria? BTW, I would be thrilled to take an '06 330i to any circuit you desire and run it against any flavor of Camry. 1st, the BMW is much quicker than you seem to think and the second the road changes direction... buh-bye.

    My '03 530SP is not only quick, but one heck of a driver's car. Enough so that everyone who has ridden in or driven it comments favorably about the total experience... from acceleration to handling to steering and braking. The 330i is a lighter vehicle and will only add to this.

    If you don't get it after reading this forum, nothing any of us can say will convey our reasoning to you. Oh, BTW, guess all the world's auto journalists must have their heads in the sand as well ;-)
  • primetime79primetime79 Posts: 18
    Just the response I exepected... I am not discounting any of the other areas BMW excels in. I am merely trying to get everyone else input in terms of the power/acceleration of the car. BMW builds and excellent car, but this is one area IMHO they can historically have always led in but have now fallen afew notches in my books. So please no more mountain, curvy, wavy road nonsense. I don't when last I drove on a windy road that I can actually open up my car. SO please don't get defensive and address the power/acceleration concern specifically...
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "So please no more mountain, curvy, wavy road nonsense."

    Obviously there are varying points of view out there. BMWs are not underpowered, I wouldn't think of the new M5 as being underpowered in any sense of the word. The M3 is not underpowered, the new twin turbo 335 isn't underpowered, the 330i is not underpowered nor is the 325.

    It doesn't seem like you have had the opportunity to really see what the 330i is capable of. You should give it a shot, instead of relying on raw HP ratings to derive a sense of how the car really drives.
  • primetime79primetime79 Posts: 18
    I actually test drove the 3301 and the M3. I am truly in love with the M3. personally I think it is the best car in the planet. The 330i was very disappointing. Couple reasons I did not choose the M3 was the fact that a new model was coming out and it did not offer the luxury refinement that would appease my spouse for a car in this price range. Maybe the only reason it felt slow was because I test drove the IS 350 hours before.....
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Maybe the only reason it felt slow was because I test drove the IS 350 hours before"

    I can understand why it felt slow...it can get to 60 in under 5 secs. :confuse The M3 will run rings around most cars especially the IS350, it is not meant to be a Lexus it is meant to be a BMW, which is why the level of luxury is different by design than on the IS350.

    At any rate, you vote with your dollars and after all your opinion *is* your opinion.
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Posts: 351
    "So please no more mountain, curvy, wavy road nonsense."

    And please, no more 0-60 nonsense! Why not a Subie WRX STi or Lancer Evolucion? Gee, they don't have the requisite levels of luxury, but sure are a kick to drive (fast)! Also cheaper to purchase than a 330i or IS350. There are enough options for today's buyer to purchase any narrow profile of vehicle they choose. What ever is best for you is what you park in your garage.

    BMW's are built by people who relish driving fast. BTW, just wondering... what are acceptable performance stats to you? Don't equate price with "levels of luxury", but try "levels of engineering and quality of components".
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    keyless" ignition that requires a key to be inserted

    Where do you get that? It's patently false: I own an e90 with comfort access (keyless ignition) and the fob never leaves my pocket. I walk up to the car, open the door and press START. That's all.
  • lexus_jnlexus_jn Posts: 102
    "Where do you get that? It's patently false: I own an e90 with comfort access (keyless ignition) and the fob never leaves my pocket. I walk up to the car, open the door and press START. That's all"

    Is this really true? I test drove 3-series before at 3 different dealers but had never seen or heard something like that. All I rememeber was that you have to insert the key into the slot if you want start up the engine with a push button. Guess the keyless ignition thing you're talking about is optional and does not come as standards.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Comfort Access is not standard.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "Price is not a "real" factor to "90%" of buyers? I think your percentage is unrealistic. In my opinion, folks with no regard for price are probably looking at DB9's (I would be)."

    I was referring to the nominal relative price difference between a well equiped 330i and IS350. They are both in the same ballpark price wise. But they are quite different cars, with the former emphasizing overall driving dynamics, the latter luxury amenities. If one is already prepared to spend $40k +/-, I don't think most folks would disregard their preferences to save 5% either way.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "I am merely trying to get everyone else input in terms of the power/acceleration of the car. BMW builds and excellent car, but this is one area IMHO they can historically have always led in but have now fallen afew notches in my books. So please no more mountain, curvy, wavy road nonsense."

    As many others have pointed out, you are overemphasizing the importance of straight line acceleration to overall performance and driving satisfaction, at least among the demographic that has graduated from stop light racing. You can strap rockets to a soap box and get it to 60 faster than a Ferrari.

    BMW's philosophy has always been "make the sespension faster than the car". If you don't buy that "nonsense" then GM and Ford have lots of cars just for you.

    Has BMW "fallen" a couple of notches in power/acceleration? I don't think so. Others have tried to make 0-60 the metric of comparison. BMW makes a 5 passenger M5 that matches my 911S in straight line acceleration and runs circles around anything out of Japan in handling. The M3 that you "absolutely love" will still be a joy to drive for another 20 years, even if it's not the fastest car on the road then, just like a slower Ferrari 328 still is today. Mashing your foot into the floor of an overpowered, under-suspensioned automatic is a short lived thrill. And if your wife heads you in that direction because of her need for the latest in electronic do-dads and amenities, I wish you the good fortune to be able to afford two cars.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,238
    Many have said it, but you said it best.
  • allargonallargon Posts: 75
    Comparing a M3 (coupe!!!) to a IS350 (sedan) isn't really an apples to apples comparison. A CTS-V will likely blow away a M3 in a straight line as will most American muscle cars. They also have a lot more room inside vs. the relatively cramped M3. However, this is an entry-level luxury sedan discussion.

    I will bring this back on track and ask is handling everything. Others have brought up reliability. I've brought up interior space. Many Lexus and G35 lovers like to bring up 0-60.

    That's my question for the BMW 3 series sedan as well as others in this discussion. Is handling everything?
Sign In or Register to comment.