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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • Spyshots:

    http://new-g35.com/default.htm

    I think it looks superb, even better than current one. Has 330+ horses.
  • http://www.lexus.com/about/press_releases/popups/2005/pr_03_23_a.html

    Here's the quote that excited and eventually let down auto enthusiasts:

    "We're taking dead aim at the top of the class with the new IS," said Lexus Marketing Vice President Mark Templin. "We plan to offer a compelling range of models and options with class-leading performance and luxury."

    I was giddy watching the online unveiling of the IS350 in March of 05 . The promise of 3 series performance with legendary lexus reliability had me nuts with anticipation. I poured over every detail of the new IS350 and believed the hype. Finally, a company with the economic and engineering muscle to accomplish anything promised to dethrone the 3 series. Alas, it didn't come to pass. The IS350 was more expensive than my 3 by a long shot and far less fun.

    PS: you guys suck at the research thing. :P
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    Ouch!

    That press release should quite some of the posters on this forum who believe that the IS was NOT marketed to driving enthusiasts.

    IMHO the IS series IS a good blend of performance, luxury, reliability and comfort. Lexus really needs, at this point, to hone in on the "performance" aspect and surely it would well be on its way to dethroning the 3er.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    I didn't see anywhere in the article has a quote like "The new IS will outperform the 3-Series in every category." That's the exact quote according to shipo anyway but so far I still can't find the source of that.

    I am not going to get into another discussion of what's performance. For me performance is the combination of handling, road-feel, smooth tranny, acceleration and many others. One thing for sure is the IS did deliver on the acceleration part but maybe not so much of the other area. However on the other hand the 3er at that time was seriously behind the acceleration game but leading on the other area. Maybe the 330i has a better overall package on performance (which I think it does) but it's still fairly subjective.

    By the way, the IS has definitely delivered on the luxury part though.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    That press release should quite some of the posters on this forum who believe that the IS was NOT marketed to driving enthusiasts.

    Nope, I think IS is marketed to the so-call driving enthusiasts poseurs like me. Since so far the IS is doing pretty good I'll bet there is a decent size of poseur market out there somewhere.

    Again, that's the proof of Lexus did their homework.

    If you can't beat somebody in his game you have 2 choices:

    1. Join him
    2. Don't play his game

    Looks to me Lexus choose the later.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I fully agree with you that a serious sports sedan - focused primarily upon driving performance - is not what everyone wants or needs in their daily driver. (As evidence, you got an IS and I got a TL). I'm not trying to talk you out of being happy with your car, just as I wouldn't want to defend my decision to get a TL.

    But it initially appeared to me - and apparantly others - that Lexus marketed the IS350 as a serious sports sedan. To that extent it falls short of the 335i. False expectations were created. That does not detract from its luxury attributes and the fact that for some it represents a better personal choice.

    And, on that note, I'm going to conclude my rambling with a "so what" back to myself. We are all, I assume, reasonably intelligent people who can set marketing pitches aside and make purchase decisions for ourselves. The fact that Lexus might have been a bit ambitious in marketing the "sport" orientation of the IS is not the end of the world. Nor is Acura's coining the term "super handling" for something that isn't. Hell, when I bought my 2002 Honda S2000, it WAS a "substitute" for the "there is no substitute" Porsche Boxster. And a pretty damn good one at that.

    So take my comments with the assurance that I respect your decision to get a very nice car that has the balance of attributes that work for you. If we all agreed on everything, this would be a boring world. Although I wouldn't mind seeing a few more Robie Houses and a few less Toll Brothers houses in the future. ;)
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    We are all, I assume, reasonably intelligent people who can set marketing pitches aside and make purchase decisions for ourselves.

    Hear hear...

    I, for one, have never believed in any market campaign. I guessed that's why I can't relate myself to many others whom actually believed it.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Sorry, one other point:

    If you can't beat somebody in his game you have 2 choices:

    1. Join him
    2. Don't play his game


    I do NOT think BMW is somehow invicible at "their game". I'll argue vehemently that the S2000 was heads and shoulders a better roadster from a driving dynamics standpoint than the Z3/Z4 ever was/is. Granted, the three series has been their strong suit. But even the 5 series evolution, to a bigger, bulkier, heavier car, with a less driver oriented cockpit and stupid i-drive opened the door for competition. I had hoped Acura would make a RWD V-8 RL with some of the same engineering creativity that went into the S2000 and give BMW a run for their money. Wishful thinking.

    But I hope that other manufacturers don't run for the hills rather than challenge BMW as the king of the sports sedans. If nothing else, it will make BMW work harder, whcih is a good thing for consumers.

    O.K., I'm really done now.
  • I guessed that's why I can't relate myself to many others whom actually believed it.

    Guess that's me. The thing is, I wanted to believe I could find BMW driving dynamics wrapped in a reliable Lexus. People would ask about my 03 ZHP and I'd tell them it was a blast to drive but I'd never want to own it. If possible, I'd own a car that was super fun and reliable. I can't find such a thing, so I'm stuck leasing BMWs.

    The Lexus brand, like the Caddy one, appeals to a certain group. A group that places luxury above performance. i'm not in that group. It'd make life a lot easier if I could put up with a dowdy, bland car like a used Lexus LS430. I could buy one now and just drive it for 6-7 years like a friend of mine. But I'm not that sort of driver.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "I didn't see anywhere in the article has a quote like "The new IS will outperform the 3-Series in every category." That's the exact quote according to shipo anyway but so far I still can't find the source of that."

    You managed to quote me out of context. What I said was:

    "...that says something like, "The new IS will outperform the 3-Series in every category."

    Keep in mind that I hadn't seen the quote from the Lexus executive in question for over a year (apparently a year and a half), hence the fact that I qualified my statement with the "something like" part. FWIW, my interpretation of, "We're taking dead aim at the top of the class with the new IS. We plan to offer a compelling range of models and options with class-leading performance and luxury." apparently was, and still is very much in line with what I wrote earlier.

    I think it bears repeating that I've never said that the IS was a bad car, I've simply pointed out that it failed to measure up to the very benchmark the early rhetoric claimed it would exceed. Said another way, "Good car, just not good enough for my tastes."

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Wow, I am deeply regret that the IS350 has broken your fairy tale told from bunch of Lexus execs.

    Hopefully the Santa Clause is still coming this year...

    It was suppose to be a joke if you don't get it...
  • I do NOT think BMW is somehow invicible at "their game".

    In the new C&D comparo of luxury performance cars, M45 edges out 550i, price dependent. Price independent, 550 edges out M45. M has considerable power deficit. The two cars bringing up the rear are E550 and GS450h.

    G35 and 335i probably will be closely matched, price dependent or not. So BMW is not invincible to Infiniti, probably invincible to everyone else!
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,591
    "Invincible" is in the wallet of the beholder... ;)

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Although I don't think BMW is invicible, I'm not ready to concede that anyone yet has a better small sports sedan (335i) or mid size sports sedan (550i 6-speed) when it comes to the driving enthusiast's preferences.

    I've driven the Infiniti M45 and, IMO, it isn't even close to the 550i, not to mention that it only comes with a slushbox transmission option.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    anyone yet has a better small sports sedan (335i) or mid size sports sedan (550i 6-speed) when it comes to the driving enthusiast's preferences.

    Agreed.

    With price independent and driving dynamics as the number one priority BMW is still hands down the benchmark in the segments.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    That was a quote I got from my local BMW dealer with all the upgrades like rims/tires. I had every available option on it pal. Maybe they are getting over MSRP here or hoping I'm a sucker ???? :confuse:

    Rocky
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    No offense here but when you march into a dealership and ask for every avalaible option out there (especially accessaries) you do look like a sucker...

    Even though we all know you are not.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "That was a quote I got from my local BMW dealer with all the upgrades like rims/tires. I had every available option on it pal."

    Poseur car, plain and simple. :P

    "Maybe they are getting over MSRP here or hoping I'm a sucker ????"

    Ummm, if the shoe fits...

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • Where's the Jaguar x-type in this mix? Since Ford has taken over the shop, Jaguar has excelled. Their quality issues have mostly been resolved, and their engineering is top-drawer.

    I have yet to see any Lexus that can match even the lower-end Jaguar interiors for refinement, and luxury.

    Plus Jaguar has more of a world-wide audience than any Lexus (where is Lexus in Europe, the birthplace of the entry-level, small luxury sedan)?

    Check out the current X or S type Jaguars, and you will definitely not be disappointed. Buy one and you will not regret not buying a Lexus / BMW / MB.

    /DA
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,150
    Where's the Jaguar x-type in this mix?

    uhhhh... the keyword to this discussion is "performance."

    Let us know when the X-type comes even close to a performance sedan and maybe it could be considered for inclusion.

    Buy one and you will not regret not buying a Lexus / BMW / MB.

    ... until resale time.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

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