Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

1321322324326327860

Comments

  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    louiswei, I not only I gave you the MEAT, I spoon fed you the potato's and salad also. :P

    Rocky
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Man, Rock, all I see is potato and salad. I AM HUNGRY.

    BTW, I am done with this S80 crap. This off-topic discussion has been dragging on for too long...
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,353
    image

    Not too shabby for a so-so package(think boxy)and average in performance area.

    image

    Very understated luxury for a total package of performance, style and precision, IMO.

    Regards,
    OW
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    You can say whatever you want. That does not make it so either in fact, or to the buyers who won't blink twice about $30k. It's strictly in your opinion, which is fine by me.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    Although irrelevant to this forum, can you post pics of the backseats in both vehicles? I'm not too savvy on posting pics and links.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,353
    image

    S80 Rear....

    image

    A8 rear cabin...you get what you pay for.

    Regards,
    OW
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    The S60 you test drove can be had for about $27K *new* after rebates, so no need to fall for the "2 year old" version trick. (bad dealer - no sale!)

    I like them because it's as I said, like a European Buick. Solid, safe, dependable, and sporty *enough* to at least not feel like a GM or Ford. Just be sure to get the sport package if they offer it. Did you test the sound system? Very nice. I'd so buy a S60R over a LaCrosse.

    We agree on the BMW and Mercedes - heh. It's amazing what they charge these days for that plastic symbol on the hood, isn't it? When I can get somethig like the Lincoln that is nicer, larger, and less money than a *C Class*(let alone Mercedes' main lines) and cars like the Lucerne CXS start to approach the BMWs in quality...

    No, not as good, but darn if you don't get a lot for your dollar. Mazda, btw, is my top pick for value for your money lately. The 6 is a very good car and a reason why you shouldn't buy a Hyundai. The 3 is so close to the new Civic in features and specs that it's scary, and the RX-8 is a bottle of youth with 4 seats. Just open it up and watch your worries evaporate :)

    I still suggest you go test-drive a RX-8 for fun. You'll not regret it.

    P.S. The reason Accura and Lexus look so simmilar is... They are Honda and Toyota in Japan. Those "brands" are foisted off on us in the U.S. for higher prices - while in Japan, it's just another Toyota or Honda.

    And those two in Japan are like comparing Ford vs Chevy trucks. 6 of one, half dozen... :P
  • Ok, in basic terms please describe the criteria for entry level Luxury Performance Sedan that fits into being acceptable for this forum. I believe that there should not be a minimum price range, I don't think one was set. If you can find such a car under $30K built and performs better than these cars it should be mentioned. I drove the BMW 328xi, and the MB C230, are they considered in this class of car ? If they are then for sure the Lincoln MKZ surpasses them in quality, performance, luxury, standard options, price, and long term maintenance costs and deserves to be mentioned here. It is a midsized four seater sedan with 263hp. Overall it is a better car. As a matter of fact I believe that it is underrated and should be seriously taken into consideration here. I encountered this attitude with the salesman at MB, who does not consider any North American product in MB's class, seems narrow minded especially in the face of the facts. The Lincoln MKX is a great car for $29K, and oh, it comes in AWD at $31K since that seems to be a factor here, FWD=bad, cheap, low quality ?? Not sure why, I think Lincoln has outdone itself, good Job !

    What dissappointed me was the Cadillac CTS, I did not like the angular exterior design.
    Also I was not impressed with the Acura TL-S, for the money I would rather get the Lincoln MKX at $35K you can fill it nicely with options, and the salesman was willing to deal from that MSRP ie. bargain for a 6 year extended warantee etc.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I don't know about you, but I don't want a volvo. I'm planning for my 335. Mazda is cheap to me, I won't put myself in one. RX-8 is a one trick pony.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "If they are then for sure the Lincoln MKZ surpasses them in quality, performance, luxury, standard options, price, and long term maintenance costs and deserves to be mentioned here"

    Performance and options are different your mixing and matching. BMWs are the gold standard. That said, they are not for everybody. the MKZ does not surpass BMW in quality or performance, not even close. I won't ever buy another Ford, but that is another story.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    Oh, but what a great trick the RX-8 pulls off :)

    It's the closest thing to an old 280Z that's currently for sale. Light, powerful, and handles like a true sportscar. All in a nice family-sedan format. ie - it doesn't beat you to death like a 350Z does.

    Just no "luxury" - otherwise it'd be a ringer in this comparison.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    Hopefully, pics are worth a 1000 words and should lay the S80 being even mentioned in the same sentence as an A8 or LS 460 to rest.....
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,353
    I owned a Lincoln LS and it was a great car but when I test drove the 330xi, I was blown away by the driving performance. You need to drive one to know in your heart. Here is a good article on the progression at Lincoln to the new MKZ...

    Since the death of the good handling but weak selling LS sedan model, the brand has concentrated on cushy riding semi-luxury barges like the geriatric Town Car and last year's much more modern but still floaty Zephyr mid-sized sedan. As such, demanding roads like those in the Tennessee valleys were not on the agenda.

    Things have changed, however in the last 12 months. After being helmed virtually into the ground by series of ill-suited executives, Lincoln is under new management and most importantly has been given a much needed dose of fresh or revised products.

    The Zephyr has morphed into the MKZ, the Navigator underwent a major refreshening and most significantly, the MKX -- an upscale version of the Ford Edge crossover -- has joined the ranks. The Town Car still lurks in the background but it survives only to serve out an audience that is headed into extinction.

    Recognizing that the Zephyr was shy on horsepower and a little sloppy at the controls, the engineering team upped the V-6 powertrain to 263 hp (from 221), kept the six-speed automatic transmission, offered all wheel drive as an option and firmed up the ride and handling. Even without these improvements, the Zephyr has sold surprisingly well for Lincoln, so the brand rightly expects even better results from the MKZ. And while the car will never be compared with a BMW Three Series or an Acura TL in the handling department, it is certainly a match for the likes of the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima. And it is sufficiently competent to cope with the Tennessee twisters, including the infamous Deals Gap section, a road with 318 turns in just 11 miles.

    Regards,
    OW
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    "Just no "luxury" - otherwise it'd be a ringer in this comparison."

    Exactly- that's why it doesn't belong in the comparison.

    IMHO, the RX-8 with its "4 doors" (and I use the term loosely) does not qualify it being a sedan.
  • like them because it's as I said, like a European Buick. Solid, safe, dependable, and sporty *enough* to at least not feel like a GM or Ford.

    You're in the wrong forum! European Buick - that's hilarious as my buddy always calls my girlfriend's S80 a Buick. "Where's your Buick?" He asks this every time he's at our house as her European Buick is always in the shop for repairs.

    and cars like the Lucerne CXS start to approach the BMWs in quality...

    Wrong forum. Honestly, why are you in a performance forum if all you want is a big car with a soft ride?
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    Well, I was pointing out that the Mercedes and BMWs are overpriced for what you get. When you can get a vastly bigger and better optioned out competitor for less money, well, the name-brand factor starts to wear a bit thin.

    But for luxury performance undre $30K - something has to give. And I favor luxury over absolute performance if I had to choose which to go for.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    Does the MKZ offer a manual tranny? Nope. Sometimes- it's just that simple to be considered in this segment.

    I don't share your enthusiasm that a MKZ surpasses the 3er or C class in performance.
  • Ok, in basic terms please describe the criteria for entry level Luxury Performance Sedan that fits into being acceptable for this forum.

    Manual transmission as standard equipment
    Suspension tuning with an emphasis on handling over ride quality
    Driver-oriented interior
    Smaller size - ideally a compact but that's getting tougher to find.
    RWD preferable, with FWD as passable and AWD if one really must.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,353
    Just test drive the G35, 335I, Acura TL and the Lexus IS350 for a test of this segment.

    Unfortunately, (and believe me, I've felt the pain for a lot of years), our U.S. manufacturers dropped the ball a long time ago and are still looking for it. There is no reason why one of the big three could not provide an offering in this and other segments to trounce the Euro's and Asians. But reality bites. Big Time.

    Just drive and learn. Remember, you get what you pay for...my guess is you will lean toward Acura RL or Lexus GS, both outstanding cars.

    Best Regard,
    OW
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Well, I was pointing out that the Mercedes and BMWs are overpriced for what you get."

    We'll they are only overpriced, because you can't get the same driving experience anywhere else. Besides if they are so overpriced, why are they selling like hotcakes?
Sign In or Register to comment.