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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Sounds like he maybe should have gone ES. Road noise complaints in a performance luxury sedan?
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,579
    I found the TL similarly to be noisy and unrefined. The front passenger seat felt like sitting in a pit with no support. On the flip side, the electronics were well designed, worked very well, and the car over all was reliable.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Road noise complaints in a performance luxury sedan?"

    There is no excuse for road noise. My BMW was not isolated by any means, but it didn't transmit large amounts of road noise. It was not Lexus quiet, but I didn't hear tires slapping against the pavement. I heard the growl of the engine, but there was no wind noise, no creaking, no rattling.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,664
    I always thought the TL attempted more sport than luxury...like a FWD BMW ;)
  • be325be325 Posts: 91
    Hi Forum,
    Can anyone tell me why more and more manufacturers (Acura TSX, TL, BMW,and others)are eliminating the protective side moldings? I like them. Is it not cool styling or what?
    Thanks.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    My guess would be cost cutting (which shouldn't be an issue in this segment) or they ruin the lines of the car.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    There is no excuse for road noise. My BMW was not isolated by any means, but it didn't transmit large amounts of road noise. It was not Lexus quiet, but I didn't hear tires slapping against the pavement. I heard the growl of the engine, but there was no wind noise, no creaking, no rattling

    I don't mind any of those. I mind that my e90 was too quiet. It was like driving in a tomb.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    LOL. One mans' tomb is another mans' noise machine.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,596
    Do you have the Bridgestone Turanza EL42 tires? If so, there's some of your noise...

    I have an '05 TL, noise hasn't been too much of an issue for me. But, I'm coming from a couple of Chrysler products, so a Kawasaki may have seemed quieter!

    I'm still enjoying my TL greatly!

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,363
    My'06 has the Conti tires...it's a tomb now but more like a noise machine with the BS EL42's!

    Regardless, the amount of steering feedback is tops in my experience so far.

    Regards,
    OW
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I mind that my e90 was too quiet.

    Why didn't you just open the windows and sunroof? ;)
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    This porridge is too hot...
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Didn't make a difference. The near silent engine and wimpy exhaust weren't improved with the windows up or down. The car's aural qualities are flaccid at best. So goes the path of BMW...
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "The car's aural qualities are flaccid at best"

    Maybe cut-out the muffler and re-route the exhaust pipe to be next to your ear?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    You have to understand, I came from a ZHP and grew up with a gearhead father (my parents have never owned a FWD car..and right now they own 5 cars!). Turning that ZHP on in the morning brought a smile to my face as the thing grumbled to life. The e90...uh it just sort of puttered to life like the bland mid-size car it's become. You could run it to redline and there was no drama, no sound, just a push. Blah.

    Hopefully BMW will come up with a ZHP version by 09/10.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,363
    IMO, you need to be our guide by working with the new M3...this might bring you what you desire! I, for one, would value your feedback tremendously.

    Regards,
    OW
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    lol

    We'll see. From what I've read the new M3 is a step back from the e46 version.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    The near silent engine and wimpy exhaust weren't improved with the windows up or down. The car's aural qualities are flaccid at best.

    Ah, now I get it. It's not "road noise" that you were missing, but the sweet song of the engine / exhaust. Big difference.

    I'm fortunate in that respect. I never would have ordered the $2,400 sport exhaust option in a 911, but since the car I bought had it and it was lost in the $10k discount, I have it. Press that sport button and the car suddenly goes from reservedly quiet to the pleasant gurgle of a real Porsche. Almost back to the level of the 993 air cooled ones.

    And you are right, from what I've heard, the new V8 M3 is going to be a step in the wrong direction, aurally speaking.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,664
    Maybe cut-out the muffler and re-route the exhaust pipe to be next to your ear?

    A "friend" in high school did that to his 3.8L (?) Mustang (the hole in the exhaust...that is) to make it sound meaner...still was no 5.0
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I'm currently on a business trip in Michigan and today my client (whose spouse is a GM engineer) says, "Come on; let's go drive a new CTS." I agreed and away we went.

    First off, this car is actually halfway decent looking, and while the family resemblance to the butt ugly first generation CTS is definitely there, it is none-the-less sort of pleasing to look at in an angular sort of way. Then I got in and was surprised to find myself sitting lower than in my old 1985 Dodge Daytona (I was expecting a seating position more in keeping with my 530i), and while the seating position wasn't at all uncomfortable, I just thought it odd given that this car is a mid-sized sedan.

    The rest of the interior seems to be reasonably well thought out, and once again a vast improvement to the Gen 1 car. All in all, a place where I would generally feel comfortable for a long drive. Then there was the back seat, geez can looks be deceiving or what? Visually it looks large back there, however, upon entering I bashed my head on the steeply raked C pillar, and then landed with a thump down low once again. The problem here is that while the seat cushion in low, the floor isn't. I'm only 5' 8" and yet with my feet shoved as far forward under the front seat as I could, my thighs were rising from my hips at an angle of greater than twenty degrees. Said another way, my knees were a good eight inches higher than my hips, not a good recipe for a comfortable place to sit on a long drive.

    Speaking of the drive, the first thing I noticed was that the steering wasn't as heavy as I would have preferred, however, for the general driving public that may not be a bad thing. Personally I prefer the heavy steering of the BMWs; however, I've heard lots of folks complain that many models from BMW and Mercedes-Benz have steering that is too heavy, so for them, the CTS is probably just about perfect.

    Found a nice country road, pulled away from a stop light and nailed it, holding full throttle through the 1-2 gear change and beyond. Geez was that lame. The software that controls this thing actually backed the throttle off so that the tranny could sort of ooze into second gear. Ewwww. FWIW, I mentioned to the spouse my impressions of the gear change issue and was told later in the day that a software fix was already completed and this car just needed to get patched. Personally I could care less about how the automatic performs as I'd rather have a manual, but come on; our minivans have more positive shifting than this thing. I found myself asking out loud how a transmission like that even saw the light of day.

    Back to the drive. If that engine has 300 horsepower, then either that car is seriously heavy, or that engine is seriously anemic. My butt-o-meter tells me that the new CTS with a slushbox tranny is probably no faster than say 0-60 in the low sixes. Ride wise, the car was reasonably compliant and seemed to handle well enough, that said, the tires on this thing seemed to be of the relatively narrow all-season variety, so I'm assuming that this wasn't a sport model (if there even is such a thing), and as such cannot judge it too harshly.

    Long story short, BMW needn't be worried about this car, it seems to be targeted more at the Toyota Avalon / Lexus ES crowd than at the folks who buy 3-Series and 5-Series cars for their driving dynamics.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • be325be325 Posts: 91
    I asked this question before but it generated no interest.
    Perhaps this question needs to be placed in another forum .... which?
    Why the protective modling on the doors is disappearing, especially on luxury cars?
    Did customer survey revealed that people didn't like them and preferred smal dents and nicks? Or perhaps the strips ruin styling? I wonder why those 'strips' are missing in new BMWs, Acuras.....?
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I think it is strictly a design issue. You can add side moldings to a TL but, IMO they don't look good with the current styling. Same is true of the BMW. There were side moldings on my 1995 Maxima and, for that particular exterior style, they look pretty good. But with the new designs, they wood look a little too much like an aftermarket add on that contrasted with the "flame" lines of BMW and creases in the TL.

    As far as preferring small dents and nicks, I still got a few of them on my Maxima. You need to be pretty lucky to have the offender's door height match your 1" wide molding.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,363
    Shipo, thanks for the excellent insight on the '08 CTS. I believe the only sport model will be the V (MT) variant for now.

    As usual, the engineering seems to have missed the mark, as I expected. I anticipated nothing more. It will be good for some, I would think, because at least the design has improved as you noted. Surprised at the tranny trouble since the slush boxes are usually good.

    Perhaps they will add a CTS-S model down the road! :confuse:

    Regards,
    OW
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,528
    My worries confirmed...so much for reasonable back seat room...Lexus did the same thing (low C pillar) to the new ES...like they needed to make that look 'sporty'
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    As habitat1 said, it's a styling thing. The way cars are designed these days, side molding usually ruins the look and is generally just plain tacky looking. Also, those little strips don't do diddly for preventing you from getting door dings and nicks. So I'd rather not have them and just be more prudent in where I park.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    There is/will be a Sport model with a manual transmission besides the V series.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,244
    to the guy (Rocky?) who claimed for months/years that the '08 CTS was going to be the second coming?

    Now that the car's actually out, he's nowhere to be seen.

    Strange.

    Thanks, Shipo, for the interesting review.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,194
    Most of the reviews I've read still say pretty positive things about it. The 1 negative I know off-hand is, I believe, in the new Automobile. Yet, they drive a slushbox CTS and compared it to a 335 6-speed. Huh?? And, on top of that, the test numbers they use are from different parts of the world on different days! Jigsaw puzzle stories like that just make me sick.

    I'm still going to wait on real reviews of real production cars before jumping to any conclusions, personally.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    ... And, on top of that, the test numbers they use are from different parts of the world on different days! Jigsaw puzzle stories like that just make me sick.

    Amen, Brother! Preach it! I can't stand it when they use hodge-podge numbers, either. I've seen articles where the reviewer will supposedly be reviewing an updated sport model of a car and post numbers from a non-sport model from TWO YEARS prior!! :surprise: I guess they forget that the people who actually read their rags are enthusiasts, not idiots. :sick: (Most of us, anyway.)
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