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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • dan12dan12 Posts: 114
    (But I still cannot fathom iDrive)

    Personally, I like it. I find it useful and intuitive. I also have regular buttons for the most frequently used functions but I find myself using iDrive for everything except vents and A/C. I can only talk about the 3-series iDrive which is supposed to be simpler than the 5 and 7 series. I haven't tried the more complicated systems, but the 3 is quite nice.
  • Hi Mark,

    I can agree on some of your points and disagree on others. First, I do think the CTS is a member of the 5 series competitor club with the exception of the non-availability of V8 power. It has just about everything else. There are a few options sometimes found in this group (lane change avoidance) that are still only available on the STS, probably to keep some product seperation while that model goes on its long march to oblivion.

    And regarding Infiniti, ah yes, they do upset the ol' product line apple cart, don't they? The M35 is on the large size of the class, mostly in terms of length (one of the reasons I liked it...it's always been on my short list). The G35 is supposed to be the BMW 3 series competitor, but in terms of size, it's the "tweener car" that the old CTS was. The G35 is a small midsize car that's on the small size of the 5-series class in terms of length and about and inch and change shorter in wheelbase. The width is narrower, much like the old CTS. As a result, it's playing in that "I can be a 3 series competitor and give you more room" role that the old CTS was doing. As a result, it's simular engine power but smaller mass gives it a small advantage to the new CTS but still nips the heels of the smaller BMW.

    Given your previous posts, I know AWD is a bigger priority for you up in Ohio versus for me down in Tennessee. And that's fine by me. The G35 AWD will probably pull a more sporting performance that the CTS AWD given a likely 400-500 lb weight advantage. The CTS gives the driver more interior room (especially leg room) which is a bigger priority for me (top priority really).
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,032
    A reporter from a national newspaper is hoping to talk to consumers who have been shopping for a European vehicle (BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, Audi or others) and have found them to be more expensive because of the Euro exchange rates. Please reply to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Monday, October 1, 2007 with your daytime contact info.

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

  • Isn't the writer assuming their story's angle is correct then? If the writer is only seeking buyers who think the price is too high based on euro exchange rates, then the writer's looking only for people who will support the story's thesis. Bad way to write an article.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    A reporter from a national newspaper is hoping to talk to consumers who have been shopping for a European vehicle (BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, Audi or others) and have found them to be more expensive because of the Euro exchange rates.

    What does the exchange rate have to do with an American consumer paying US dollars in the US for these European vehicles? As far as I know, the European automakers haven't raised their US MSRP's due to the declining dollar. Those European manufacturers stand to make less money, having to convert their US sales to Euros when they repatriotize the funds. But until they start raising MSRP's. the US buyer could care less what the Euro exchange rate is.

    And, by the way, the dollar has also dropped substantially against the Yen.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,399
    That CTS is sure looking cheap to everyone in Europe and Asia. Too bad the import duties would raise a US car over the cost of domestic purchase of a home grown variant over there.

    Regards,
    OW
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,693
    I sat next to a guy from Australia, showed him the CTS and its price, he said it'd be $80k (Aus$, about $70k US) if it sold over there. Ouch!
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,399
    Wow! "Made in the US" means big $$$ to the importer! What a rip!

    Regards,
    OW
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,693
    I think it's also the duties/taxes/etc., too. BMWs are also much higher there.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Just for chuckles, in Taiwan...

    330i: NT$2,520K = $77,538 USD (They don't have 335i sedan over there)
    IS250: NT$1,960K = $60,307 USD (No IS350 over there)
    G35: NT$1,920K = $59,076 USD
    '07 CTS: NT$2,280K = $70,153 USD
    C300: NT$2,430K = $74,769 USD (No C350 over there)
    A4 1.8T = NT$1,679 = $51,661 USD (No 2.0T and 3.2 over there)

    All prices are including tax.

    Guys, we got it good here...
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    How many G35s would be sold in the US for $59K? :blush
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Interesting Taiwanese prices, Louiswie - but you know I have to ask - how much for a 911S?? ;)
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Ferrari 612 Scaglietti 5.7: NT$ 15.3M = $470,769 USD
    Porsche 911: NT$ 5.38M = $165,538 USD
    Porsche 911S: NT$ 6.08M = $187,076 USD
    Porsche 911 Turbo: NT$ 9.08M = $279,384 USD
    Porsche BoxterS: NT$ 3.98M = $122,461 USD
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,399
    GULP!

    I love the US!!

    Regards,
    OW
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Thanks. Guess I better wax my $200,000 911S Cab this weekend. While drinking a few $1 Yuenglings.
  • My A4 2.0T lease is up. Current deal was $1100 down with $409/month AT for 24 months. Looking at the same thing, Infinity G35, or Luxus IS250. Any strong opinions on which is the best car and if I can get a similar deal on the Lexus & Infinity?

    Here is the offer I received on another A4.

    2008 Audi A4
    Model # 8EC5EH 4dr Sdn CVT 2.0T FrontTrak
    PX - PREMIUM PKG -inc: leather seating surfaces, 17" x 7.5" 5-spoke cast alloy wheels, P235/45HR17 all-season tires
    PT1 - BLUETOOTH PHONE PREP
    36 month lease – 12,000 miles per year
    $ 2,122.00--> Total Amount due at Signing of Lease
    - 750.00 – Audi Loyalty Bonus
    = $1,372.00 – Total Amount due at signing of lease.
    35 monthly payments of $404.24

    $ 32,800.00 --> Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price - 1,887.00 --> Discount
    = $ 30,913.00 --> Capitalized Cost
    - 713.96 --> capitalized cost reduction
    = $ 30,199.04 --> Total Net Capitalized Cost
    $ 19,024.00 --> Residual value at end of month
    .00128 --> Money factor
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,720
    Wax? Don't you mean Zaino???

    Sorry, I have a Zaino problem (Z-7 & Z-6 into the dark of a Friday night. Thinking of Z-2 first thing in the morning...). But winter doth approach, ending my season of Zainoing.

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • you're approaching your leases wrong. You should negotiate the price of the car and find out the MF and residual at another dealer. Never take the deal in the paper. Always negotiate the price of the car and call another dealer to get the Audi lease rates. You can save thousands this way.
  • I have found faults with the new CTS. For the most part, these faults would not rule the new CTS out. The thing is, to my eye, beautiful and seemingly well made (fit and finish wise, at least.)

    I think it is an STS killer and if that does come true, it will probably enter the LPS class. It is, at this moment in time, still a "near" LPS contestant. NOT because I say so, heck it is virtually in the class now by most "measurable" accounts (content wise.)

    It is not the most modern, it breaks very little new ground (if any) in the ELLPS or LPS class -- other than its styling. When compared with the LPS class it comes out as a bargain, when compared with the class "the pundits" place it in, however, it is about 15% or so too pricey.

    I do not think it is Cadillac's Phaeton -- indeed, I think it will be thought of as the beginning of a new Cadillac. It will find itself -- if it is forced to play in the LPS class -- the bargain car.

    That may not be enough.

    I would compare the new CTS with the BMW 3, the NEW (not in the US yet) A4 and perhaps an Infiniti or Lexus of the tweener variety as you suggest.

    Now, for me, the interior and the 300+ HP motor are winners -- and knowing GM, the lease incentives will start second quarter '08 and make the new CTS hard to resist for many of us who have "been there done that" with similar sized cars from Europe. My Audi is lovely to behold, but breathtakingly expensive to "hold" beyond the warranty period.

    "All" my friends say their experience with 'merican cars and trucks have typically been experiences with reliability and longentivity, if not the last 1/10th of performance.

    This might be quite refreshing.

    As a fur instance: My wife's BMW's brakes (when they need repair) if the thing is out of warranty cost $950 per axle -- I hear they go out about 55K miles.

    I can only assume the GM product would be friendlier to keep longer.

    Moreover, despite my comments about the Cadillac being state of the art, 2004, well, that's not entirely a bad place to be.

    As I get down closer to the final 5 or 6 months before I order the "next" -- more data will be available. Hopefully, I can turn that data into information.

    :surprise:
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,090
    You won't be able to touch that deal with an Infiniti or Lexus..

    $1372 upfront and $404/mo. for 3yr/36K is a good deal for a $33K MSRP car....

    regards,
    kyfdx
    visiting host

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • I disagree with your comment about not being able to touch that deal. I just leased a G35 sedan last week for $1600 down and $440 a month for 39 mnth/15k yr. I know if I dropped my mileage to 12k a year my price would have dropped a bunch as well, so it would be even closer to the Audi deal.

    I was also looking at the A4 and choose to pay a bit more for the G35. Here are some of the reasons I made that decisions simple just based on my opinions and time spent in the cars during the "fun" process they call car buying.

    The G35 just started its current model, while next year at this time everybody will be talking about he new A4 model and I did not want to be tied into an old model.
    I felt like I was getting more standard features with the G35 vs. the A4 (one of the real breaking points was the fact Audi simple could not offer me memory seating)
    The engine simple blew the Audi out of the water. Low 200's vs. low 300's, come on... not even close!
    I like the looks of the G35 body better than the A4. I do think the A4 with the S line exterior looks very sharp and sporty (which is standard on the 08'), I just thought it looked a bit dated, like I have seen that body style for a long time now
    One nifty little feature that I first thought was gimmicky is the keyless entry and engine start. I do have to say I love not needing to pull my keys out, not sure if the "fun factor" will wear off on that :shades:

    Audi did have some points that I thought were better than Infiniti though

    The A4 has WAYYYYY better gas mileage than G35
    I liked the fact the A4 had a CVT transmission, I felt it was smooth and more predicable.
    I like the interior of the A4 a bit more than the G35. I thought the A4 was "classier" and had more of a premium look and feel, while I do think the G35 is nice I jest felt like it was colder and not as upscale compared with the A4

    All in all I would really suggest you look at what you really want and if paying a few extra $$$ is worth it in the long haul. I simply said "it is only $40 bucks a month, I can bring my lunch for a few days to work."

    Of course I went with an 07' G35 as an 08' simple did not justify the increased cost for the few extras is brought, a different story if going to actually purchase.

    The Lexus is a nice car, but personally I think it looks a little weird and the seats were kind of small (front and back) and the lease rates where just not close to the A4 or G35.
  • One nifty little feature that I first thought was gimmicky is the keyless entry and engine start. I do have to say I love not needing to pull my keys out, not sure if the "fun factor" will wear off on that

    It won't. It's a fantastic feature. Once you live with it you never want a car with normal keys again.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    It won't. It's a fantastic feature. Once you live with it you never want a car with normal keys again.

    Strong endorsement from someone who I thought abhorred luxury gimmicks. I'm probably putting words in your mouth, but can't I hear you saying "give me a lightweight car with a great chassis and stick the power windows and sound insulation up your ...." ;)

    Seriously, never had a keyless entry car - too advanced for Porsche, I guess - but a friend has had numerous problems with his. He works for Fox News and apparantly the electromagnetic interference from the broadcast tower screws up his keyless entry. And "Joe torque-wrench" in the service department isn't that great at listening to his complaints.

    I'm of the opinion that all these techno/electronic do-dads that don't add to the DRIVING experience are conspiring to force people to sell their cars before the warranty expires. Our MDX navigation system (control unit) has been replaced twice in 2.5 years. The chances of me keeping another car 13 years and 155k miles like my 1995 Maxima are slim to none. Fine if you can afford to trade every 4 years, but that's not the strategy I used to get into a 911 in the first place.

    So I'll take "normal" keys, thank you. Preferably ones that are inserted to the left side of the steering wheel. :)
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,090
    "Of course I went with an 07' G35"

    Well... there you have it..

    '07 models aren't going to be an option for very long.. Isn't the '08 model already on the lots?

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,399
    I'm of the opinion that all these techno/electronic do-dads that don't add to the DRIVING experience are conspiring to force people to sell their cars before the warranty expires.

    That is exactly what is developing. Why buy a car that will cost more than fitting your children with braces just to fix the added gadgetry. More parts that will eventually fail.

    I switched from owning to leasing as a result. No more warranty, no more car. The added cost up front is valuable to me in two ways: new cars every three years and paying up front for only part of the depreciation. The only way I would buy is with the intent to sell at the 3-year mark.

    I know this is the more costly strategy. How much more is debatable and depends upon the model lease to lease. The enticing thing is opportunity to experience new choices as the market changes. Perhaps a Hydrogen-3'er soon!

    Regards,
    OW
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "I'm of the opinion that all these techno/electronic do-dads that don't add to the DRIVING experience are conspiring to force people to sell their cars before the warranty expires."

    "Why buy a car that will cost more than fitting your children with braces just to fix the added gadgetry. More parts that will eventually fail.

    I switched from owning to leasing as a result."


    I switched from owning new cars to owning old cars. :blush:
  • If I never have a normal key again, that'd be great. I see no advantage to fishing a key from my pocket, fumbling for the lock and then having to put the key in the ignition. Like I said, once you live with it...it's hard to go back.

    I loved walking up to my BMW, getting right in and pressing go. All the old steps were gone. It just made getting my favorite part - driving - so much easier. Carrying groceries...boom right into the trunk, no stopping. Leaving the car - off, pull the e-brake, hop out and walk away. Can't be much cleaner than that.
  • leadfoot4leadfoot4 Posts: 593
    Hey all! I'm lookng for a little quick advice and or opinions. My wife's aunt has an '01 325xi with roughly 30,000 miles. She took it in to the dealer yesterday to get it's annual state safety inspection. Instead, she got the shock of her life...they told her that $1100 in repairs were necessary.

    First off, they said the rear brakes were totally shot. I'm assuming the e-brake mechanism probably froze up due to road salt corosion. That, in turn, probably toasted the pads and then the rotors. Not happy, but probably logical, however $500 seems a bit high to buy 2 calipers, rotors, and pads, as well as replace the parts.

    The second item on the list really got me, though...BOTH rear springs were broken...On a 30,000 mile car, that never has even seen anybody in the back seat! Another $500-550 to replace them. I'm not all that familiar with BMWs, does this seem normal??

    Thanks for any info you can provide!
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Can't agree with you more...

    Before I have a smart key car I don't think this is a big deal too. I was like: how tough can it be to take the key out of my pocket, put it in the ignition and twist it? But after getting used to it I was so uncomfortable with a non-smart key car.

    It's just one of those things that you really don't need it but once you get used to it, you can hardly go back. It's like drugs...

    I can't see myself owning another car without this feature.
  • Broken springs and bad brakes = tough or bad driving conditions. You mentioned road salt, so I presume she drives in an area with really bad roads - potholes, broken asphalt, etc? It's quite possible she did these things and as it typical of many people, simply won't cop to it or "forgot" about that or those incidents where she really slammed the car.

    Obviously, going to an independent repair shop is a much better idea (and you'll save probably 30-40%). The BMW is way out of warranty, so why in the hell are you taking the car to a stealership. Dealerships make the majority of their money on two things: used cars and repairs. Selling new cars to you only starts the cycle...
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