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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Allowing for a 15% driveline loss

    Using the "15% rule", it'll be interesting to find out other ELLPS' dyno results as well. Maybe it's not only the BMW whom underrated its engine.

    Edit: Found it, from

    All stock configuration (with # besides the horsepower):

    2006 Acura TL: 223.04 RWHP (= 262 HP before 15% loss, Official: 258 HP)
    2007 BMW 335i: 275.89 RWHP (= 325 HP before 15% loss, Official: 300 HP)
    2005 Infiniti G35 Coupe: 242.20 RWHP (= 285 HP before 15% loss, Official: 298 HP)
    2006 Lexus IS350: 268.4 RWHP (= 316 HP before 15% loss, Official: 306 HP)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Just an fyi - One of the mags (or maybe edmunds, I really don't recall) posted a 299.xx on a dyno run. You can search for it. That is probably the exception rather than the norm, but it does show the engine is a very capable one.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,147
    it seems turbo cars typically vary quite a bit from the factory. Turbos are also affected more severely by temperatures.

    I don't doubt there is someone out there somewhere who finds their 335i to be 300hp, as the factory specifies. And maybe that's why BMW rated it that way. Just a theory.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    I am just under an even 6'0 and I cannot sit in the IS without my head hitting the roof liner, unless I RECLINE the seat a bit - which I do not want to do. Others I have spoken to have the same problem. Some of the "fit" issues have to do with torso length vs. leg length. I drove the IS and liked much about it, but it is just too small for me(noticeably smaller inside than the TL, G or 3 series). The salesman actually called it a "toy". I don't agree with that, but do think many won't buy it because they don't "fit".
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    The only complaint I have about the seating is that since I have really long torso, the backseat behinds the driver's seat is pretty much useless. However, I had that problem with my previous Accord too and I believe will have it in a G or 3er as well, just in different degrees. The only car in this class that will accomodate my seating position and at the same time to have a useful backseat could only be the TL (CTS might make the list too).
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    That is the main reason why I bought the TL back then. The CTS was my only other option when it came to room.

  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Just got the February issue and here are quotes from the editors:

    Sam Mitani, international editor: Now that I have a family, things like rear-seat space and ride quality are taken into greater consideration. But the hot-rod performance of the Lexus IS350 erased all my silly thoughts of comfort and civility. The Infiniti G35 Sport looks the best, and the Acura TL Type-S was the most comfortable and spacious, but it was the IS350's raw power delivery and sharp handling :surprise: that won me over. Now I need to come up with a good explanation to my wife and daughter, who may not share my enthusiasm for the car.

    Jim Hall, senior editor: This Japanese trio is very good, but they still have little ways to go to unseat the sports-sedan kings, the BMW 3 series and Cadillac CTS. The Acura held up well against its new rivals. And the Infiniti has potential, but its steering is too heavy and the engine lacks grunt. Of the three, the Lexus is my choice, offering outstanding power, a surprising sporty chassis and decent steering feel :surprise: . Let's hope that Lexus goes to bat for enthusiasts and adds a manual transmission for future models.

    Jonathan Elfalan, assistant road test editor: The G35 Sport is a blast to drive and best mimics the characteristics of a sports couple, but lacks refinement in its suspension and gearbox. However, when it comes down to it, the IS350 is the most cohesive and complete package with a very compliant chassis and well-sorted transmission-not to mention that it's a missile cloaked by an unassuming exterior. now if only I could order it with a manual gearbox.

    Source: R&T Feb, 2007 issue
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 972
    For the discussion, it doesn't matter if it is a chip for the 335 or some other BMW model. So the idea of mootness is moot.

    You say you think you read (where?) that "BMW will install and honor the warranty on after market parts in it's cars."?

    "Honor the warranty"? Whose warranty? And who will pay for the repairs? BMW factory warranty? Aftermarket part maker's warranty? The car dealership's service department warranty?

    "Honor the warranty"? Well that is about as clear as mud.

    What do you think that means? Do you think the BMW factory warranty is going to pay for repair and/or replacement of an aftermarket part exactly the same as if it was a genuine factory installed part? That is, do you think BMW will pay for the failed aftermarket part and for any consequential damage to genuine BMW parts of the car if caused by the failure of that aftermarket part?

    Take a gander at that Bimmerfest message board. Some owners there have actually had the pleasure of dealing with parts failures and warranty claims.
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 972

    "...may affect..."?

    So what if it is straight from Dinan? The chip may or may not affect the car's warranty. Big deal! That is hardly definitive, right?
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    So what if it is straight from Dinan?

    Exactly!! That's my point, even Dinan themselves cannot guarantee that if BMW will honor the warranty with the modification.
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 972
    Well of course Dinan can not obligate BMW to warranty Dinan's chips.
    But the claim made earlier was that BMW would provide warranty coverage on Dinan's chips.
    That was the issue.
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 972
    279 HP compared to 275? That's a little less than one and a half percent difference.
    Uh-oh! That Big 'n' Tasty is going to cost you $1.01 instead of $.99 now.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    If an Authorized Dinan BMW dealership sells and installs your Dinan parts, then you're covered. Period.

    Time for my soapbox...

    I would point out that even the factory warranty on an unmodified car can be "muddy" in certain cases. For example, if your clutch burns out after only 15,000 miles, is it a defective tranny or did you destroy it with abuse? This exact situation has happened to people on these very forums (including myself 2 years ago with my old Acura), and the decision whether the dealership covered the repairs or not seems to be about 50/50.

    The parts and service folks at my local BMW dealer all know me by first name - and I've never spent more than $50 there at a time. I'm in there probably a couple times each month to buy a $6 oil filter, $3 worth of 7mm screws, or something like that. That's it. They always smile and say hello when I come in, talk about E30's for a few minutes, and then, half the time, they give me my parts for free. If it's not in stock, they have even overnight drop shipped parts to my home - no charge.

    When I brought my Acura in with a moaning clutch 2 years ago, no questions were asked. The Acura dealer took care of me without hesitation. Other people have not been so lucky. Why? IMO, your automobile is one of your biggest investments, and like your accountant, lawyer, or bank branch manager, you should have a personal relationship with the people who help you take care of it. If you're an enthusiast (and what Dinan customer isn't to some extent), you should want to be an "insider" with the dealership people who are "in the know."

    You'll never have a problem with warranty support, Dinan modified or bone stock, if you do this.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Interesting to point out:

    IS350 won the comparo in both price independent and price dependent standings. Consider that it is $5K more expensive than the TL-S and $6K more than the G35S, all similar equipped.

    This is one area which I don't really agree with the reviewers. I'd consider G35S the best buy among this group with price in consideration.
  • ontopontop Posts: 279
    Interesting - a reply to your own post. Not feeling too loved?

    OK - I'll pat you on the back.

    You have a super car.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Nah, just finish reading the article and didn't notice it when I was typing the first post. Since it took a while so I can't go back and edit the original. I just think I should pointed it out for those whom don't have access to R&T.

    Oh, BTW, none of the cars in this segment are super cars. Above average they all are, super car? Nah...

    Like I said, the G35S is definitely the best buy in this bunch. If I am in the market right now for an ELLPS and must have sport suspension plus navigation then there is no brainer I would choose the G over IS.

    That being said, the 3er is still the king among this segment (price independent of course). Can't wait to see a complete comparo later this year which includes the [non-permissible content removed] 3 plus the 335i and all new CTS.

    Well, at least someone has to make an effort from preventing this place turning into the "hail to the 3er" board right? :P
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    So if you can't beat em join em :confuse:

    Sounds like you have a lil bit of buyer's remorse :blush:
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 972
    You say, "If an Authorized Dinan BMW dealership sells and installs your Dinan parts, then you're covered. Period."

    But did you ever have a serious engine damage warranty claim with your Dinan chipped BMW?

    I did not. If you did not either, it might be better to talk to or read of those who have.

    And standing on a soapbox does not necessarily lend credence to your speech, it just makes you seem louder.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    So if you can't beat em join em

    Uh...when did I ever join them? If you have been following my posts in this board you can see that I have never ignore the fact that 3-series is the benchmark of this segment. I just think IS350 suits my need better. Test drove the 330i at the time of my purchase and liked IS350's power better. Went to test the 335i over the holiday and loved the new twin turbo I6 and sharper handling. However still can't get over its hefty price tag and IMO ugly interior. Also, with the ECT power mode on, the V6 in the IS350 is very comparable to the 3.0 twin turbo.

    Sounds like you have a lil bit of buyer's remorse

    Be honest, I really thought I would if I go test drive the 335i, that's why it took me a while to hit my local BMW dealership. However, after the test drive (see above) I can say that I would still make the same decision this time around with IS350 vs 335i.

    The only buyer's remorse (just a little :P ) I have is that I didn't opt for Navi on my car. Oh well, nothing a decent portable GPS navigation unit couldn't fix ;) .
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