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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,286
    Read a previous post that revealed the many Audi's you have owned. Been looking at A4's and wonder if before the original warranty expires can you opt for the extended cpo type warranty ? Is it better to opt for it when you buy or do it later.Any idea of the cost? Of course you are still responsible for tiers -brakes - belts etc which I imagine are pricey but not a surprise for euro cars. Enjoyed your comments.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,139
    with these cars in a tight race to beat the beemer -- who will make the next move?
    transmission in the acura line needs to change along with its face (and possibly move the drive wheels to the rear), the ES and IS are old forms, the CTS continues to evolve, the Benz has great looks but no guts in non-amg form, The G has pumped up the HP once again (but whats next for them, o yeah a lower v6 version), A4 just redone (only a 4cyl hello), the S60 has entered with 300hp but its a volvo.. i wonder who makes the next step.. is 350 hp the new standard??
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    with these cars in a tight race to beat the beemer -- who will make the next move?

    I think you mean "bimmer". "Beemer" has always referred to the BMW motorcycle.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,669
    ...and we all still knew what he meant ;)
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    I'd be shocked, based on Acura's recent statements and talk the last few years if we will see RWD in any of their models soon. I personally agree with you that they should at the least introduce it into the next RL but I doubt they will. Acura can't seem to get near RWD or V8s with a ten foot pole right now. Well be lucky if within the next two years if all their models have a 6spd automatic. Only the MDX and ZDX have that right now I believe. The rest is still 5spd. :sick:
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,669
    meant? err...ment :D (misspell a made up word...)

    I'm sure you knew what I was meaning to say :blush:
  • marcus216marcus216 Posts: 78
    I currenlty own a 2010 TL SH-AWD. I looked at the RL also. To be honest, I can't understand why anyone would buy or lease the current RL versus the TL. The TL is slightly larger, has the same engine, gets better gas mileage and is thousands less. Yes, the RL in its current form is quite dated but has some nice attributes. My suggestions for the next generation RL is to make it a few inches wider, about 6 inches longer (adding back seat room and trunk space). Instead of rear wheel drive, they can keep the current AWD platform and use a turbo charged V6 engine that produces 300+ ft/lbs of torque and around 330+ HP. Acura utilizes turbo charging technology in the RDX , so it is not new technology for them. BMW, Audi, and even Ford are using turbo charging with great success.
  • kevinc5kevinc5 Posts: 204
    Finally, someone gets it right. Thanks. (A long time Bimmer fan.)
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Exactly, Acura screwed themselves on the RL just like Nissan, until the newest generation of course, did with the Maxima and Altima. They made the Altima more powerful, nicer materials, etc over their flagship Maxima, which then in turn hurt the Maxima b/c the Altima was cheaper and you were getting more for your money. Thankfully Nissan rectified this problem with the 2009-pres Maxima but will see if they screw it up again when the Altima is redone again for 2012 model year.

    Acura did the same thing to their flagship right now (the RL) with the current TL in the regards you pointed out.
  • maxima03maxima03 Posts: 7
    Your car is one sweet ride.
    Automobile mag just did comparo between 2010 6sp TL SH-AWD and 2010 S4. (The mag) said it's pretty much a wash. The S4 best lap was less than 0.5 sec. faster than the TL. IMO, that's pretty impressive for acura.

    I also remember a few months ago Car and Driver gave the nod to the S4 vs 335i.
  • kfdmedkfdmed Posts: 130
    Let's get rid of this asap ...not what I like to see when trolling ;)
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,139
    i think automobile mag as a joke in declaring the TL a close auto to the S4 -sure you can save $$ but its not the same performer-- please look at every other credible magazine before making the TL out to be a winner- here are a few links to check out

    http://www.insideline.com/infiniti/g37/2009/comparison-test-2009-acura-tl-sh-awd- -vs-2009-infiniti-g37-journey.html

    here it just on par with the VWCC

    http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/comparison/2009-acura-tl-sh-awd-vs.-2009-volks- wagen-cc-3.6l-4motion/page_4_-_2009_acura_tl_sh-awd_vs._2009_volkswagen_cc_3.6l_- 4motion_page_4

    and here it gets beat by 2 cars with 70 less hp

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/09q2/2009_infiniti_g37_vs._bmw_3- 28i_audi_a4_and_acura_tl-comparison_te
  • The bimmer is 300 hp 300 torque, the G37 is around 330 hp and forgot the torque.
    So which car with 70 hp less than the Acura out ran it?
  • I don''t think comparing the TL to the A4, S4, 3 series, or G37 is an accurate comparison due to the fact the the TL is considerably larger. Why not compare the new Infiniti M series to the S4 or a Mercedes E 350 to a G37? The only thing the TL has in common with the smaller cars is price. I would not expect a TL to be able to run a slalom course with any of the above cars due to the shear bulk of the TL compared to the others. 0-60 times have the same issue. I could care less whether a TL can beat an S4 to 60 mph. My TL SH-AWD comes close to equaling most performance measures of an S4 . And when I entertain clients, I can put two full sized adults in the back seat of my TL in comfort. And the list price of my TLwas about $9,000 less than a comparably equipped S4.
  • The TL will beat ALL the cars named in the Slalom- the test was done.
    I too am quite pleased (understatement) with my TL.
  • jtlajtla Posts: 375
    edited August 2010
    BMW 328i and Audi A4 2.0. (The numbers you cited were for 335i which was not in C&D's comparison test.)
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,139
    edited August 2010
    why do they make the RL then??
    I think its great that the TL is roomy but so is a buick, In comparison tests the TL always ranks lower then cars in its price class-(as noted in the 3 links i posted)-the class acura put this car in from the beginning --as an entry level lux sedan -- this is the class that makes it possible for other cars under the lux line to exist because they sell alot of them.. if your driving an automatic TLAWD and think it will outperform a S4, then you never drove an S4,-- TL is a good middle of the road sedan, in manual form its comes closer to S4 but no one here on these chats ownes a 6speed (infact one in 6k comes in manual....ronn knows this stat).. edmunds reviewed the 6speed-- its a different animal.

    http://www.edmunds.com/acura/tl/2010/testdrive.html
  • Before my TL SH-AWD purchase, I drove every midsize luxury performance sedan out there. E350, 5 Series, M37, Audi A6, GS 350 to name a few. And, in my opinion, the TL in terms of power, handling, comfort, amenities, and over all luxury feel is in the ball park with all the cars mentioned here. Now, if price were not a consideration, would I choose the TL over a 5 series or A6, probably not. But the TL is $10,000+ less comparably equipped. That is a huge advantage. Another advantage to the TL that the others don't have is the SH-AWD. When you take a corner hard in the TL, it almost defies physics as you can feel the outside wheels forcing the car into the turn. It is a unique feeling and makes for a fun drive. I also drove a Buick LaCrosse and with the exception of a beautiful interior, the LaCrosse does not measure up to the TL in performance areas and is not the same type of car, more of a nice luxury sedan.

    Regarding the RL, that is a dated design that needs a change. I assume the next gneration RL will be a step up in size and maybe power from the current TL to differentiate it. But who knows. Again, the TL does compare well to the other sedans. It is a tremendous value in this very competitive segment.
  • That's why I dont read those silly comparison test because it is just useless to the everyday driver. Is anyone really going to be going 0-60 in 5 seconds on the highway? Is anyone really braking at 114 ft from 0-60? Is anyone doing 0.84g in a sloam with their cars? Unless you take the car over to Skip Barber race track, then these things become a reality.

    Secondly, did they test the 328I manual 6spd and the Audi manual against the TLAWD? I am guessing they did. They need to test a 328xi automatic and audi automatic AWD against the TL AWD.
  • slance66slance66 Posts: 21
    The cars they choose to review are annoying. Almost always a manual transmission, which few Americans buy, almost always the most powerful, top of the line car, again usually a low volume car. Like the CTS-V for example. Do they sell any? I'll see BME 550 and 535 reviews, but none for the much more popular 528. Same with the 335 and 328. They need to test the cars most people will buy, equipped in the way most people will buy them. But instead they can't resist the joy-ride in the more exclusive vehicle. If an automatic makes it into a test, they bash it, b/c of the auto.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,515
    A few assertions in posts 11286 & 11287 that I’d like to comment on here.

    86 - I read lots of comparisons. I find the test results of use in several ways. Including:

    I do not [ ever ] intentionally even approach maximum lateral acceleration limits on any public road. I leave a comfortable margin. But the handling tests that the various publications conduct allow me to judge & compare how high those limits are, and how the vehicle behaves at or near those limits – in case I ever do need to approach them, due to unforeseen events.

    Though I very rarely do 0 – 60, I do 40 – 65 regularly, in highway merge situations, and just for fun. And I have developed a reasonably well calibrated ‘butt dyno’ over the years. And I know what published numbers translate to ‘enjoyable acceleration ability’ – for me - and what will not make the cut.

    87 – Consumer Reports [ often ] and Motor Trend and Edmunds [ occasionally ] test the lower level variants. My sense is that the other major publications typically focus on the higher performance versions, as that is what the readers of R&T and C+D seem most interested in.

    I was quite interested to see the ‘Short Take’ on the C+D web site of the 335iS with DCT ‘automatic’ transmission – as this exact configuration is one of 2 contenders on the ‘short list’ for my hard earned dollars, next year.

    Just my 0.02 gallons worth.

    - Ray
    No interest in driving my cars on any race track . . .
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,447
    edited August 2010
    They need to test the cars most people will buy, equipped in the way most people will buy them. But instead they can't resist the joy-ride in the more exclusive vehicle. If an automatic makes it into a test, they bash it, b/c of the auto.

    Yeah, that would make for an exciting read. Kind of like buying a Home Theater magazine that only reviews Bose or Samsung HTIBs...

    And yes, I DO take my cars to the track...

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,669
    " Is anyone really going to be going 0-60 in 5 seconds on the highway?"

    Everyday :) or mid 5's

    "Is anyone doing 0.84g in a sloam with their cars?"

    If I remember to take off the cursed traction control in my IS350 :mad: ...what's wrong with a little slide now and then :blush:

    I save the leisurely drive when I have all the kids in the mini-van :shades:
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,447
    Everyday or mid 5's

    Me too!
    :D

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "Kind of like buying a Home Theater magazine that only reviews Bose or Samsung HTIBs..."

    Perfect analogy!

    Seriously though, I do think they should test the automatic AWD sedans once in while. But to make the tests viable, they need to modify the parameters a little.

    Instead of lateral grip, they should measure ability to weave between shopping carts strewn about an Old Navy parking lot.

    Instead of comparing acceleration, they should measure which car is easiest to check stock quotes on your iPhone while merging on the freeway.

    Instead of testing 70-0 braking, they should test which car has the smallest stains on the floormats when you slam on the brake pedal while sipping a double non-fat mocha latte.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    BTW, high 5's here...
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,139
    LAWMAN,
    Dont you drive a tsx= so your closer to 9 then high 5's.joking .haha...

    for my money 35-42k you can't get a better deal then 330 hp G.. navi avail AWD manual or auto, coupe or sedan with everything the others provide -- a car that car run mid 5's and is more then just a FWD sports wantabe. Sure BMW might be a little swifter at points or better in the turns but its 10k more money plus you dont have to worry about someone keying your car. -- this chat should be shut down --its the best car in its class dollar for dollar by far.. If someone has a better rig for under 43k with the G's stats please post.. 328's lexus 250s, Tls, sorry
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,536
    He actually USED to drive a TSX. He sold it and bought an E30 M3 (no further explaination needed).

    The chat is ENTRY LEVEL LUXURY PERFORMANCE SEDANS (not for the Money).

    I think it is a fantastic category. Each car is different in its own way. Each car is better in its own way. Different things matter to different people as far as entry level luxury performance sedans go. I'd be happy with most of them.

    Yes BMWs do get pricey if you load them up with lots of goodies, but the chassis dynamics & balance of a 3 series (even a 328i) make it WELL WORTH the price of admission. Not only does a 328i handle extremely well, but it also rides comfortably. Tremendous brakes & wonderful steering are 3 series hallmarks. The 3 is a great car for 1 person or if it is a 2nd car, I think personally the E90 sedan is on the small side. There are other costs to consider besides the price paid for the car. BMW includes scheduled maintenance. Check out the prices of CPO 3 series vs. a CPO G. If you've got the time, European Delivery is available for the BMW & now you're talking 335i car for 328i price. The 3 also gets decent fuel economy. 6 Speed stick availability is a BIG PLUS for me.

    I have a terriffic service advisor at BMW that treats my family and I like royalty. "What's that Bradd, your Dad drove over an 2x4 in the snow that busted his radiator on his X5 and he's stopped in the middle of the bridge in a snowstorm? He's OK? Good. Are the dogs with him? You're in the towtruck?" There were no service appointments available for 4 days and no loaner cars available for at least a week and a half. I drove out of the dealership in an hour with a loaner car which they let me keep for the 3 & a half weeks my Dad's truck was being fixed.

    I agree with you that for the money, the G37 is very hard to beat. I've been on Infiniti's "build your own" site and my ideal G37S 6 Speed has an MSRP of $39K and change. You can buy the car for what, $36K? I've driven a G37X before. I love the accleration. The car is extremely well balanced & feels like it turns on an axis. The VQ isn't nearly as smooth as the BMW I6 & it guzzles gas (even with a 7 speed automatic). 6 Speed stick availability is a plus for me.

    The A4 is a nice car too. Very roomy compared to the 3 & the G. Rides smooth. Brakes don't have the bite of the 3 or the G. Amazingly finished interior, gorgeous materials. A very sharp looking car with the S Line Sports Package. Turbo With 258 lb ft torque & great highway mileage. Even though all the others offer AWD, they offer it because of QUATTRO. My Mom had an '02 A6 and I'm nowhere near impressed with Audi's customer service.

    I actually think the IS is a handsomely styled car. LEXUS came so close with the 1st generation IS, that I was disapointed with the second gen version. It has aged well though. The IS350's accleration rivals that of the G37 & 335i. The interior is well finished, beautiful, and very comfortable. The back seat is about as useful as my Prelude's. They do offer some type of Sports Package that supposedly makes the handling razor sharp. There is something to be said about LEXUS reliability too. The IS250's 204 hp V6 is laughable at this price point. Not only is it snail slow, but doesn't get that good gas mileage. 6 speed stick only available on the IS250. Brakes are instant on with ZERO linear feel, but they do stop the car now. I felt the handling to be disconnected.

    Say what you want about the TL SH AWD, but it is the only one of these cars that is real sized. Gonna go out with another couple? The other 3 people will vote Acura every day of the week and twice on Sunday. It has a big trunk too. Available 6 speed stick w/ SH AWD makes it very competitive in this segment. Under all the glitz and glamour, it is still a Honda. A big plus for me.

    Personally, I've never been a big fan of the C-Class. SO if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. It is a good looking car.

    That new Volvo S60 has been getting good reviews (except from Car & Driver).

    I think those are the major players.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • "Say what you want about the TL SH AWD, but it is the only one of these cars that is real sized. Gonna go out with another couple? The other 3 people will vote Acura every day of the week and twice on Sunday. It has a big trunk too. Available 6 speed stick w/ SH AWD makes it very competitive in this segment. Under all the glitz and glamour, it is still a Honda. A big plus for me"

    AMEN!!!!!!!
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