Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

1365366368370371842

Comments

  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Let's make this clear...The person you described above sounds like he/she will be really happy in a Buick LaSabre. However, that is not me.

    I am definitely not a driving enthusiast because 1. I don't track my car, 2. don't drive like I stole it and 3. I enjoy the comfort my car's interior has to offer as well as its driving dynamics. That being said, it doesn't mean that I can't tell a different between FWD & RWD. One doesn't need to push the car to the limits in order to notice a difference. An average driver (okay, maybe a little above average) can tell a FWD/RWD from the first turn out of the parking lot.

    Since you kept bringing out the 18" tire + none-sport suspension + automatic, let's get it over with once for all.

    18": I like my car to look sharp, maybe you don't care much as how your car looks but I do. IMO, 18" looks better than 17". Also, have you seen any RWD IS with the 17" wheels? I doubt it. Because guess what they don't build it like that. Although the 17" is standard and 18" is option but almost every RWD IS shipped to the Southeast has 18" on them. So far haven't heard about the 18" causes problems on the IS yet.

    None-sport suspension: Comparing to my old Honda Accord, the IS' suspension is "sport" enough. I really don't need a suspension that's any stiffer. As I said before, since I don't track my car, don't drive like crazy and there are no mountain roads around me, I just don't see the point to drop $4K on the relatively useless (to me of course) sport suspension.

    Automatic: Manual is definitely more fun to drive, I know this due to my experience with the manual 3000GT and BoxterS. However, as this is currently my only car I think automatic is more practical. Especially when I was tired from a day's work and stuck in traffic, I would rather just listen to music, relax and not have to utilize my hand and feet that much. When it's time to purchase my second (weekend fun) car, the current top choice is Corvette Z06 with manual transmission.

    Bottom line: I view the ELLPS as a fancier commuter box which is practical enough for everyday driving. When times come and I am searching for some serious fun and sport I'll be looking at someplace else.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 16,897
    Are there ANY sports sedans these days that weight under 3k lbs???

    by the way, a 1990 325i took nearly 8 seconds to hit 60 mph. That's on par with many mid-size SUVs by today's standards. Not exactly what I would call "sporting." And, yes, I know you'll point out the handling, but handling alone does not performance make.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '08 Town&Country

  • Its not a stretch, its just not worth it. And its not 5K, its 10K. I do typically stick to my purchases longer but the TL in my mind it is a dog, a dog I no longer want. The G35 seems to be the best fit for me, whether I like the styling of the 335 coupe or not.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,707
    Well, you obviously would compare the 1990M3. ;)

    The point is that 3500lbs is just too heavy.

    Oh - 3000lbs - the RX-8 seats 4 people(it's technically a 2+2 sports sedan(yeah I know it has those wierd rear doors, but rear doors they still are)

    It drives very nice. Now if they could figure out how to get 250hp out of the engine... ;)
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Thank you ggesq, just what I was thinking when we were discussing how great 335i is on a dyno.

    There you go kdshapiro, here're your top 2 330i purchasing justifications:

    1. HP doesn't matter, what's the point?
    2. Yeah, that's great for straight line performance but 330i will blow everyone away on a track.

    Oh, and I'll throw in the third:

    3. 3er's interior is great for its functions.
  • Agreed. The cars are massive now.
  • t waa right about the time when the IS350 came out and all the 3 series owners were telling IS350 supporters that "hp doesn't matter- what's the point?" & "yeah- that's great for straight line performance." The IS 350 blew the competition away when it first came out w/ the amount of raw power it offered and everyone chuckled at the IS owners about straight line performance.

    Having driven an IS350, I can say straight it went like a bat out of hades. But once you came to a corner you were confronted with lousy roadfeel, a yacht-like suspension and poor chassis performance. That still stands. On a track the IS350 would quickly fall to the e46 ZHP, 06 e90 ZSP, any G35 and probably most TLs and A4s.

    Guess what- Infiniti and BMW responded because they recognized the obvious hp threat from Lexus.

    No, they realized americans aren't too bright. We see a big hp number and think a car is good - hence the success of piggy cars like the 300C. So BMW and Infiniti offer "on-paper" HP comparable to an IS350 but of course the driving dynamics of the two far outshine the IS.

    Now your telling me that your gloating over the amount of hp the 335i has?? C'mon. If the 335i didn't come out when they did, 3er owners would still be saying "straight line performance" and "hp" doesn't matter. It's how well the car handles and blah blah blah. I'll admit that the hp in that 335i is impressive and is class leading (not literally). It's a great alterative the the e46 M3.


    We mention it because in a straightline the 335i takes the IS350. Then the first corners come. Uh-oh, it takes the corners faster than the IS350. By the end of a track run with the same driver you'd get times that are decidedly in favor of the BMW. Before you'd win out because you'd still take the twisties faster than the waffling IS can handle. Essentially, the car's the complete package. No matter what Lexus does to the IS in terms of HP - like the silly IS-F - the car will still be saddled with poor steering, poor roadfeel, junky tranny and a lousy chassis.
  • And safer, and roomier, and faster, and _______________.
  • Especially when I was tired from a day's work and stuck in traffic,

    You work?

    Seems like you're constantly on this board.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    On a track the IS350 would quickly fall to the e46 ZHP, 06 e90 ZSP, any G35 and probably most TLs and A4s.

    IS350 beats the TL-S and G35S on steering, brakes, ride and handling in the recent R&T comparo. I'll give you the same credit as to those editors, so this is pretty much a toss-up.

    So BMW and Infiniti offer "on-paper" HP comparable to an IS350 but of course the driving dynamics of the two far outshine the IS.

    See above regarding the Infiniti. Agree with 3er has better handling than IS.

    like the silly IS-F - the car will still be saddled with poor steering, poor roadfeel, junky tranny and a lousy chassis.

    Wow, so you have driven the IS-F already? Last I heard that the IS-F will be introduced at NAIAS next Monday and be at the show rooms late this year. If you had the privilege to test the IS-F then do tell. If the IS-F is silly then I don't see how M3, C AMG, S/RS-4 not being silly as well.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 16,897
    Now if they could figure out how to get 250hp out of the engine

    and mileage better than the mid-size SUVs i referred to earlier. ;b

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '08 Town&Country

  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    ...handling alone does not performance make.

    Yeah but it's thee most important part of performance in my book. I will sacrifice a LOT in power to get a car that is superior when doing the twist.
  • They'd be MUCH faster if they were 500 lbs lighter. And handle far better.

    As for safer and roomier...uh I don't care. My car could have a 1 star crash rating. Really makes no difference in my selection. And as for roomier - my e46 was too big. The e90 is so massive I really can't understand how BMW can declare this Buick-like boat an entry level sedan. The thing needs flashing back up lights and a dumptruck beeper when in reverse.
  • The IS-F will be an AMG from toyota. It's not gonna be an RS or an M car. Not when you consider toyota's current offering. You don't take a lamb and turn it into a lion.
  • jblaze13jblaze13 Posts: 152
    They were comparing both previous generation vehicles to each other. Maybe its silly to you but the 325 was underpowered and still cost as much. That was the point.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 16,897
    i'm well aware of the point of the article. But I still don't see how comparing to the base engine makes the G a "3-series beater." Your post was quite misleading. 325-beater, yes, 3-series beater, no.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '08 Town&Country

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 16,897
    that's fine. And I'm with you, to an extent. I'd still prefer not to be beat out by mom's grocery getter from a stoplight, though. I don't travel on very many twisty canyon roads ... come to think of it, i travel on NO twisty canyon roads.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '08 Town&Country

  • joe131joe131 Posts: 971
    I was only meaning the IS 250 and the Saab from the above list.
    The IS 350 does not come with a manual transmission. I am most interested in a sports/luxury sedan that does.
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 971
    Is the luxury that is missing in the Speed6 subjective only? Or are there some luxury items you think should be available that are not?
    Seems pretty luxurious to me and is certainly a good performer. And a bargain.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    We've been over this before many times, you can do a search on the previous posts. Other models also mentioned are Volvo S60, VW Passat and Subaru Legacy. I could have left out a few.
Sign In or Register to comment.