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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    328i is the new 530i. lol.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Agreed. :P
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,161
    120d is the new 325i.. :P

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I drove a 2001 325i for a few days and based upon the numbers BMW is throwing round about their new 2.0 liter diesel mill, I'm thinking a 120d would flat embarrass the E46 325i.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited November 2011
    Dan - Got back from a business trip today and had a package waiting for me. I just got done listening to Opaline (no quality time for 5.1 today, I listened to the 24/96 stereo track with my headphones).

    Great album and sound - thanks for the recommendation! A worthy addition to my collection.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    Infinitis statement is working - they sell a boatload of cars- get good reviews - and continue to be relevant in this blog.
  • The point I was trying to make is- Infiniti is spending so much time chasing BMW that they are getting left behind in the dust.
    Secondly, I base my buying on my own experience with the car and the features that fits my needs. Not like the gullible ones that goes by what some magazine articles states. I say this all the time, back in 2000 when I graduated college, I got a decent job in a brokerage shop making a relatively good salary. I wanted a car and saw the Mazda Millennia, every research I did gave the car thumbs down. Me and my infinite wisdom test drove the car for about 2 hours- car was incredible and gave zero problems for the 36 months that I leased it.
    I have no problems with Infiniti, I wanted the FX when they first came out, I went the NYC auto show to check it out and it was a big disappointment in terms of rear space accommodations. I wanted the G35x, same problem-space and in addition that awful growl that invades the cabin.
    The TL has been very very good in the 27 months of ownership, the next stop for me are the Germans-if Acura upgrades the RL to a V8, I will stick with the brand. Here is the short list for next car hunt-
    E550 4matic
    E63 (Depends on the bonus and incremental base pay increase)
    550 XI

    What do you think SWEENYDOG?????
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,257
    fedlawman...glad you enjoyed "Opaline". It's one of my faves....especially in surround.

    While the weather is still nice (high 60s....in November, no less), I'm going to have to do a "get ready for winter" detail. Of course, now that the time change occurred, I'm hoping the weather holds out for the weekend, since it's too dark to do after work.

    After 4K miles, I'm averaging 23.4 MPG in my 335i xDrive. Pretty darn good. I'm pleased.
  • I too have my copy of Opaline DVD-A. I like it A LOT. It reminds me of a mash-up of sounds from a couple of other groups, dominated by a kind of Hootie and the Blowfish sound but with a touch more of an acoustic mood.

    Hard to beat for the price and in the TL it is a tasty treat of tunage!

    Try some of the DTS offerings, if you get a chance -- also quite a treat, usually.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Having just bought a G37, I spent a week with it on a trip. I'm not impressed with Acura TL, they have not really moved forward in few years. And while I did a boat load of driving and looking, my wife and I were on the same page regarding the Acura, just no interest.

    The cabin was too big for me along with the turning radius.

    The G37 is a very compelling package. A fully loaded car, except the tech package cost me what a basic 335 would have been. (The 2012 M is really sweet and the M hybrid is gorgeous.) Does BMW fulfill it's mission better, yep. Would I rather be driving a 550 yep or even a 335, yep. But there are always compromises in life.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited November 2011
    I like the quieter tracks best. I love "Today/Tonight," "Candleburn," and "Drawn Out." Great songs with simply stunning sound! A couple of the louder tracks sound a little compressed/congested in places when I play them at volume.

    Mark - I hear some U2 and Coldplay in this album.

    The weather already sucks here and my M is in semi-hibernation now (battery tender all week long).

    That's surprisingly good fuel economy - neither of my cars (Volvo and BMW - both with significantly smaller & less powerful engines) do as well.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,257
    edited November 2011
    fed....mark.....glad you like my recommendations. "Today/Tonight" is one of my favorite tracks, too. About 3 years ago, DTS was selling their own surround music disks on their own WEB site. I suspect they were getting out of the surround music biz in favor of the more popular (and more volume) DTS HD movie blu ray disks. Some interesting titles. Haven't listened to them in a while. Don't know if they're out of print or not. Have to dig them out.

    My MPG is at 50-50 city/interstate. When I'm all interstate, it bumps up to about 28 MPG. All city driving is about 20-21 MPG. Pleased with all of it. Turbo 6 cyl, gobs of torque, no turbo lag, I'm liking it.

    I still have to wonder how the BMW faithful will react to 4 cyl motors in the 2012 vs what has been years and years of 6 cyl offerings. I've read and heard of how "wonderful" the new 4 cyl engines are supposed to be. However, I don't know of anyone who's driven one yet (including the trade rags).
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    I have to admit that the I-6 is intoxicating. I love the turbine-smooth power and sound it makes. It's one of the things I miss the most about my old 325i.

    I'm sure the new 4 will be smooth, but I doubt if it will match the refinement of the I-6. On the other hand, it will no doubt be much smoother and more refined than the I-4 and I-5 I currently own.

    I'm going to have to research those DTS discs...
  • To each his own- I say the opposite, TL over the G.
    Secondly, what do you mean Acura has not moved forward in a few years. Tell me what's so advanced on the G that the TL does not have mechanically and technologically? I am really baffled on this satement.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,754
    I took the survey:

    - You should make it clear the purpose of the survey in your post
    - There's an issue where you rank features 1-5 in importance, but there are only two features to rank.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,088
    edited November 2011
    Alan Parsons and Steely Dan in/on DTS -- great discs.

    However, I've noticed that some of the "remastered" discs that are just normal CD's sound great on the TL's PLII mode -- it almost makes me understand why DTS, DVD-A and SACD never really caught on: Good Very good is the enemy of great, once again. :surprise:
  • I wanted (and still do) an Infiniti product. I love my wife's '11 FX35 Premium (in black with the Java interior) -- but, I didn't want to have 2 of the same thing and I absolutely had to have blind spot indication (coming from my '09 Audi A4 Prestige where it was standard equipment.) The only Infiniti that I could get that had BSI was the M and I had to order an M with BOTH Premium and Technology packages to get the BSI (and the tech package seemed to contain expensive automatic cruise control hardware and software that I did not see -- at this time anyway -- the value in.) I also shopped for a new A6, but the lease rates and the discounts offered were breathtaking (and not in a good way)!

    So, I test drove the G37X with EVERYTHING on it and found it to be great fun to drive and with acceptable levels of sport and lux -- and the lease prices were fantastic. Yet, the G could not be had with BSI -- and it seems (and is) a narrow vehicle, both in the interior width and the track. The G has a track of 60.2" and the TL is 63.8" -- you can feel the difference; and to me the difference made the TL feel more stable and nimble (almost like my outgoing 2009 A4.)

    I probably would have gone with the G, despite the above, had it offered BSI.

    Another contender was the Volvo T6 which could be had with BSI and felt even quicker with its "right now" torque, thanks to the turbo.

    As someone said, to each his/her own -- the G just seemed cramped inside and somehow, compared to what I was used to, made me feel like I was a bug when I took it out on the Interstate (full of semi's).

    Drive it like you live. :shades:
  • I am with you- it was on my short list.
    I think I am in pretty good shape 6' 1" +/- 218 lbs, I body build 4 times per week for 45 mins. The car just felt like my 99 Mazda Millennia in terms of space.
  • poodog13poodog13 Posts: 320
    This is the first time I've ever seen "Blind Spot Indicator" as a MUST HAVE feature. I've never had it, but I've also never missed it. Have managed without it for 18 years of driving thus far, so I'm pretty sure I can do without from here on out.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,088
    edited November 2011
    What once were vices are now virtues. . . .

    I never had TPMS until 2005 -- now, it too, is a must have (and it is now mandatory, so no longer a possible disqualifier.)

    Got electronic stability control (branded ESP) in 2001, after thinking "why would I need that, I've got ABS?" -- then, after having it just one year, it became a must have, too (I understand it too will be no longer an option, this MY.)

    Thought a back-up camera AND parktronic (aka backup sensors) were redundant -- now, after seeing the around view monitor PLUS front and rear parktronic (on my wife's Infiniti), I can hardly imagine not having AT LEAST a back-up camera and parktronic. Actually, I wish I had front and rear parktronic like my wife's 2005 and 2008 BMWs had on them.

    Torque vectoring? Yep, it is rapidly overtaking both plain ol' Quattro and ATTESA as THE drive-line must have.

    6,7,8 and more speed transmissions -- you guessed it: Must have.

    Tires that auto-correct for under (or over) inflation: #1 Coming soon; #2 Must have (think of the billions of dollars of fuel alone this tech will save.)

    Auto shut off and restart after full stop: ditto.

    Heated AND Cooled (ventilated) seats: need you even ask?

    In-car communications systems that when activated automatically turn down ventilation fans to assure the voice command systems "hear" the commands you give with nearly zero errors? Ya think?

    ABS PLUS brake assist? You bet.

    Electrochromic mirrors? Certainly damn near vital. . . .

    And the beat goes on. :surprise:
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    The Acura has been in it's current form since 2009, like the G37 has been around for a few years.

    The interior of the Acura is busy in my opinion, made me feel like a cockpit. On the other hand, the interior of a G with the accents is soothing.

    I feel lost in the Acura, I have a nice cozy feeling in the G.

    SH-AWD makes the Acura perform as well as the rest of the ELLPSs, over the FWD, as it is a nose heavy car, which is why I say it really hasn't moved forward.

    Car buying is so subjective, to each their own.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I can live without TPMS, my wifes 5 year car has it, but I can live without it.

    You forgot HID headlights.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,669
    Auto shut off and restart after full stop: ditto.

    I maybe ol'school regarding this...But I recall countless statements regarding the life of engines and how they could run in perpetuity...if it were not for the "starting"; which is where all the wear occurs. I've also read that they've engineered for this and it doesn't cause additional wear (but I just don't believe it)

    It's like having sensors in the car that would monitor your blinking...so it could turn off your headlights for that brief moment to save some precious energy...maybe my example is a bit too extreme :)

    but i'll pass on both :shades:
  • Didn't forget them at all . . . just thought my [subjective] point had been made.

    Hell, I grew up where only rich people's cars had A/C and power windows. My dad got a new Plymouth in 1969 with power steering -- but no power brakes. And even though it was the top of the line Plymouth Satellite with a 318 V8 (the 383 and Hemi were reserved for the Road Runner and the 440 was for the GTX), it didn't have factory air -- so my dad had the dealer install aftermarket A/C which meant the front bench seat could only seat two instead of three because of the "device" (the blowing unit) that was installed that stuck way out into the passenger area.

    The first time I got a car with power steering, brakes AND windows, I knew I had become a member of "the club." That car was a 1976 Chrysler Cordoba with fine Corithian Leather (how many remember that reference?)

    It still had an AM only radio though, but with a speaker in the rear deck it was "upscale" befitting someone of my stature (in "the club," of course.)

    And, man o' man, when I got a car that had a rear window defroster (which was a slit in the rear deck through which air was blown by a motor located in the trunk), well, peel me a grape, Mabel.

    Power door locks engendered a similar reaction when I got a 4-door car with FRONT only power door locks (and, as I recall, FRONT only power windows, too.) The dome light only came on when you opened a FRONT door, on this car -- probably saved $.50 per door to omit the rear on/off switch.

    When I got an Audi with an infra-red remote (who's dumbass idea was THAT, anyway? -- infra-red, geesh) -- I had another grape peeling moment as well.

    These days its power everything on virtually every car -- and even if you didn't want these assists, well, it would be virtually impossible to NOT have them.

    My 1978 Audi 5000 was my first car with heated seats -- I used to take people for rides in the car and secretly turn on the seat heaters. . .why? Because back then heated seats were rare (and novel.)

    I also didn't forget articulating headlights, nor did I forget bi-xenons (which the Acura TL lacks, strangely.)

    Memories. . .memories. . . . :blush:
  • You may be right about your longevity concern -- I really don't know. What I have read, however, is that the full stop, engine shut off, then engine restart when "the light changes" will save countless gallons of fuel once this tech is widespread.

    Perhaps there is little to be concerned with about the engine -- I would, however, wonder if the constant restarting of the engine would not be hard on the starter MOTOR?

    In any case, I assume this auto shut off will be placed in widespread use as we strive to save every drop of fuel we can by almost any and every means even remotely possible.

    Somewhere I read that there is a patent on a technology that "warms up" the transmission when the car is started COLD; this warm transmission apparently yields a bit more MPG's, and, over the life of the car, this "bit more" adds up. It is especially interesting when one extrapolates this to millions of cars and finds that the annual savings ends up being a governmental sum of money and fuel saved (so they say.)

    Fuel saving tires have been in production and use for years (you can tell I watch too much TV) -- even though the savings per car are only a few drops of fuel annually (but again when extrapolated to millions of cars, these drops become a big deal and big bucks.)

    Mostly (which is NOT the same as entirely) I am for virtually all new technolgies and also for the upgrading of "older" technologies to make them "better" (and greener, too, if possible). When a new technology is found to be wasteful, harmful or just plain inappropriate though, I am all for scrapping it, beginning a new project or exploring a new idea and moving forward. :surprise:
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I remember when my father had an Audi 5000 and Audi 4000 side by side in the garage. After the 4000 he got a Legend. Yep, memories.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Regarding the whole Start/Stop thing while sitting stopped at a light or some such, I don't think it will affect engine longevity at all. Why? Because the bulk of engine wear comes when cold starting an engine where the lubricant has had a considerable amount of time to drain down into the sump; a couple of minutes at a light just isn't all that long in the grand scheme of things.

    Other fuel economy related thoughts:

    I find the concentration on things like transmission oil temperatures for improving fuel economy curious, and if I might be so bold, highly questionable. From my perspective, for a relatively modest investment (compared to the potential gain), it makes sense to me to harvest the latent heat radiating off the exhaust system to power the various subsystems of the vehicle. I'm thinking there is many-many times the necessary power lost in the form of radiated heat to drive the electricals, the power assist pumps, the A/C compressor, and even the valve train (electrically or hydraulically).

    Remove the mechanical load of all of those components from the engine and fuel economy should easily see a double-digit percentage gain. The only company which has announced such a research project is BMW; hopefully it will become a reality sooner than later.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,257
    I know there was quite a stir when the Hyundai Genesis came out. Don't know if it fits in this discussion, but I actually had test driven one when they first came out. Nice "first" effort at a lux car by Hyundai (they really should change their name for cars sold in the U.S.).

    Well, I got my first chance to drive one for an extensive period of time. It was a rental (Enterprise). It was the 6 cyl model with what looked like the middle of the options package (everything but Nav).

    First, it's a BIG car.

    It drove fine....actually, it drove pretty good. I was in Milwaukee (OshKosh) WI with it when it snowed for the first time this Fall. It handled the snow and slush just fine.

    The suspension that everyone bitched about isn't bad...at least not as bad as I had read about here at Edmunds. Yes, there are some road surfaces that cause an unrefined chassis feeling, but for the most part, it was fine....similar to a Mercedes E, without the unrefined part.

    There were some things where hitting their price point caused some short cuts. If that's real wood in the cabin, the trees they used must have been very sick. The seats are....well....they're wide....certainly not very comfortable (and on the opposite end of the seats you'd find in the TL SH AWD or my 335i....both are great). The lighting is superb in the cabin.

    They spend the money on the drivetrain, you can tell. The engine is responsive and sounds uber refined. The transmission shifts seamlessly and is ready to kick down when needed.

    All the switches feel richer than they should, and operate with a smoothness that was unexpected.

    All-in-all a nice first effort. Came close to mimicking the A6, Mercedes E, Lexus LS, (not really in the same category as a BMW 5 from both a dynamic and performance category). Not quite hit the nail on the head, but relatively close for a lot less money.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    Infiniti is getting left behind? Your comments again have no basis- look at the reviews and sales numbers- hello. What do I think? Well I think you are not a good car picker and if you worked at a brokerage like you say I would not let you pick a stock either. You bot a Mazda milleneum, nuf said. Good luck with the next car, made you should wait I hear Cadillac bringing back the cimarron.
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    edited November 2011
    Here we go again- reviews, sales numbers, is there anything else you base your decisions on?
    Of course they are getting left behind- always playin catch up to BMW.
    I pick based on value not like the masses (including yourself) who chases the trend. And by the way, whats wrong with the Millennia?
    Back in 2000 that car had all the goodies any other entry luxury car had to offer, leather, 17" wheels, in dash 6 disc palyer, heated seats, fog lamps etc etc- it just did not have the luxury name that you tend to chase after.
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