Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

andres3

roadburner said:

andres3 said:

This was the headlight that was replaced by a body shop; so not original. I"m going to go with not a coincidence, and blame it on the body shop/accident rather than Audi. That's how I'm chalking this one up, and appreciate Audi covering it without making me deal with the hassle of going back to a lousy shop. I do realize the shop used an Audi derived OEM replacement part, but I have my reasons.

I hate dealing with most body shops; if the car looks good from 20 feet away the average customer is ecstatic- and as a result, the work really suffers. Maybe I've just been lucky, but when I creased the side of my ti I took it to my local dealer's BMW Certified Collision Repair Center. The quality of the work was outstanding, and I had absolutely no complaints. Was the body shop that "repaired" your car an Audi certified shop?

Yes, they were certified, and there's only 3 in all of San Diego County! However, they were so horrible, I imagine a typical decent body shop would probably out-perform them, though I haven't had luck with any body shops in San Diego County yet (tried 4 different ones now).

I did tell Audi that they need to immediately de-certify them. They used to have a good reputation locally in Escondido (by San Diego), but they got bought out by Caliber Collision (the McDonald's of Body Shops) years ago. They kept the old name along with Caliber Collision to fool people, and they still are certified by Audi to this day despite my complaints.

I agree with you, they get away with shoddy workmanship because most people won't take their car back 3 times until they get it right like I did.

sweendogy

@andres3 I really feel for the story- last month my neighbor backed into the front quarter of my car. Damage just to the one panel (I hope)- I have been waiting on getting the car fixed- may wait another 6 months or so as my hope is to have it fixed correctly and then quickly trade in for the next model s4 which I'm guessing will be available at that time. The tale of issues you have had with your car would have driven me to roll it off a cliff.

andres3

I would pay extra for a policy that has "new car replacement" even if your car isn't totaled, but has more than a 20% of value damage claim. I'd also pay extra to have a collision deductible waiver that applies to both uninsured and under insured drivers hitting you. Unfortunately in CA at least, it's better to be hit by an uninsured than a under insured driver.

roadburner

Those of you who own a car fitted with a ZF automatic or double-clutch transmission might be interested in this ZF List of approved lubricants. Page 3 lists the approved oils for double-clutch boxes while page 4 lists the proper ATF for the automatics- in both cases the part numbers for the oils as sold by the vehicle manufacturer are also provided.

Automatic owners should note on page 5 that ZF recommends an ATF change every 60,000-120,000 km(50,000-75,000 miles) or 8 years under the following conditions:

- frequent highway driving in top speed range,
- offensive, sporty driving style,
- frequent trailer operation,

I plan to change the ATF in the 2er every 50,000 miles, primarily because it will be my track toy for the next several years. Otherwise I would go with the 75,000 mile interval. I tend to be proactive with respect to vehicle maintenance and I believe it pays off; I've had the ATF changed in the GM A5S 390R(5L40E) in my '04 X3 2.5i every 60k miles. It now has 185k on the clock and the transmission performs like new.

flightnurse

So for 2016 Infiniti has an entry level Q50 with a 4 cyl turbo, so is Infiniti doing the BWW thing with a El Cheapo model?

http://blog.caranddriver.com/sans-six-infiniti-announces-pricing-for-some-2016-q50-models/?mag=cdb&list=nl_dvr_news&src=nl&date=031616

Michaell

flightnurse said:

So for 2016 Infiniti has an entry level Q50 with a 4 cyl turbo, so is Infiniti doing the BWW thing with a El Cheapo model?

http://blog.caranddriver.com/sans-six-infiniti-announces-pricing-for-some-2016-q50-models/?mag=cdb&list=nl_dvr_news&src=nl&date=031616

BMW? Heck, almost every luxury brand offers a 4-cyl turbo in their entry level cars.

MB
Lexus
Audi

I guess the question is, what took Infiniti so long?

flightnurse

Michaell said:

flightnurse said:

So for 2016 Infiniti has an entry level Q50 with a 4 cyl turbo, so is Infiniti doing the BWW thing with a El Cheapo model?

http://blog.caranddriver.com/sans-six-infiniti-announces-pricing-for-some-2016-q50-models/?mag=cdb&list=nl_dvr_news&src=nl&date=031616

BMW? Heck, almost every luxury brand offers a 4-cyl turbo in their entry level cars.

MB
Lexus
Audi

I guess the question is, what took Infiniti so long?

Well Audi has always had a 4 cyl,

Lexus until now never had a 4 cyl

Yes, MB had one too, what the scary thing is that Nissan could not make their own, the 4 Cyl in the Q50 is from MB...

tigerheel

So very open ended question -- but I would really appreciate opinions. I currently lease a 2014 Lexus IS250 AWD. Its fine -- has worked out well for me.

I am looking at all the typical cars in that range and class: Audi, Mercedes, Lexus, BMW, etc etc

Any thoughts or recommendations? I would look at a purchase of a CPO but I really like the thoughts of a different experience every 24-36 months.

Lease specials will probably sway me to be honest

stickguy

I think you answered your own question. scope them all out, see which ones interest you enough to get into a short term relationship with, then go where the money trail leads.

Maybe add infiniti. Q50 is going to be really cheap compared to those others. I like the Volvo S60 too, might be worth a look.

Funny though, of your list (I assume A3, 328, IS, CLA/C class) the only one I don't like is the one you drive now!

andres3

Yes, the IS350 is light years better than the IS250. Still, if you want great power it's 335+, S3 or S4, or AMG versions of the above.

flightnurse

tigerheel said:

So very open ended question -- but I would really appreciate opinions. I currently lease a 2014 Lexus IS250 AWD. Its fine -- has worked out well for me.

I am looking at all the typical cars in that range and class: Audi, Mercedes, Lexus, BMW, etc etc

Any thoughts or recommendations? I would look at a purchase of a CPO but I really like the thoughts of a different experience every 24-36 months.

Lease specials will probably sway me to be honest

Depending where you live there are some great deals on BMWs right now. my neighbor just leased a 2015 535d new, MSRP $77K, purchase price $59K, with the 3K lease money BMW has his money payments on this car is $525/m with ZERO out of pocket. He got the car from Pacific BMW in Glendale, Ca. They have a huge selection of cars from new with zero miles, to service loaners to Exec cars.

But go out and look at cars kick the tires and test drive them.

circlew

Here is a good lease on a 335i

Michaell

circlew said:

Here is a good lease on a 335i

It's OK .. over $5K due at signing, but you'll get the $3850 back at the end. Oh, plus DMV and dealer fee costs, whatever those happen to be.

NJ calculates sales tax on the sum of the payments and the customer can either pay it up front or add it into the cap cost, which will increase the payment.

You could probably negotiate a better price than that used in the ad to lower your payment.

nyccarguy

circlew said:

Here is a good lease on a 335i

Not to mention that this has got to be for 10K miles per year (so what do I drive for the other 6 months?).  So after 3 years you'll have paid out over $19,000 in lease payments (plus tax).  I think they are marking up the bank fee by $200.  

kyfdx

$925 is the new standard acquisition fee for BMWFS. No markups allowed, now.

nyccarguy

I stand corrected! 

flightnurse

circlew said:

Here is a good lease on a 335i

That isn't a very good deal, I'm sure you would walk into the dealership and get it for less. Also With that payment the MF isn't at the base rate. The GT's aren't selling that well.

Michaell

@flightnurse - good point. They mention the 7 MSDs but not the starting MF from which they are deducted.

.00135 is the base MF this month, but the dealer can mark it up to .00175.

Mr_Shiftright

You're also losing one month's lease payment in the investment interest you would lose on giving them $3850 of your money for 3 years.

flightnurse

Michaell said:

@flightnurse - good point. They mention the 7 MSDs but not the starting MF from which they are deducted.

.00135 is the base MF this month, but the dealer can mark it up to .00175.

This is one area where the dealer makes money, other then the lovely Doc Fee

parachautopart

its seems difficult to decide, seriously.

flightnurse

Mr_Shiftright said:

You're also losing one month's lease payment in the investment interest you would lose on giving them $3850 of your money for 3 years.

One thing people don't get with MSD's is over the life of the lease, you are saving on average about $1900 plus you get the MSD's back when you turn the car

Mr_Shiftright

flightnurse said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

You're also losing one month's lease payment in the investment interest you would lose on giving them $3850 of your money for 3 years.

One thing people don't get with MSD's is over the life of the lease, you are saving on average about $1900 plus you get the MSD's back when you turn the car

Yeah but the dealer can jack up the MF, and if they do that to the max as Michael points out, that's one whole 1% more interest; and those 7 payments are held hostage against any damage (read the fine print) --not a great position for negotiation at turn-in.

But your point is well-taken nonetheless and should be considered along with everything else.

stickguy

that was something I wondered about with the MSDs. On my lease, there is no security deposit, so if they want to ding me for damage, they have to ask for it and I can argue. But if they have $3,500 "on account", they can keep whatever they want, and I would have to fight them to get it back.

Mr_Shiftright

EGG-xactly my concern as well.

flightnurse

Mr_Shiftright said:

Yeah but the dealer can jack up the MF, and if they do that to the max as Michael points out, that's one whole 1% more interest; and those 7 payments are held hostage against any damage (read the fine print) --not a great position for negotiation at turn-in.

But your point is well-taken nonetheless and should be considered along with everything else.

This can happen and does at any dealership, but this is why the savvy buyer would investigate what the current MF is and call the dealer on the increase.

flightnurse

stickguy said:

that was something I wondered about with the MSDs. On my lease, there is no security deposit, so if they want to ding me for damage, they have to ask for it and I can argue. But if they have $3,500 "on account", they can keep whatever they want, and I would have to fight them to get it back.

From what I have read on Bimmerfest, BMW has not done this since the MSD is not really a "security" deposit in the general term, but a way to lower the MF.

Mr_Shiftright

Depends on what's in the contract--it should state (or not) whether the MSD can be used against damages at turn-in.

kyfdx

stickguy said:

that was something I wondered about with the MSDs. On my lease, there is no security deposit, so if they want to ding me for damage, they have to ask for it and I can argue. But if they have $3,500 "on account", they can keep whatever they want, and I would have to fight them to get it back.

I agree with the thought process on this... It's the same reason I don't use a debit card. But, in reality, all cars get an inspection at your home/business, and a printout is given to you then (3-4 weeks before turn-in). You owe what you owe, regardless of deposit.

I've done it twice, and no issues.

Mr_Shiftright

True enough but there are shades of gray as to what represents "significant damage". I've also heard of cases where one inspection seeeds rather perfunctory, and another very detailed. Go figure.

kyfdx

I haven't run into that. Twice was with MSDs, but I've turned in at least 8-10 leased cars, with never an issue.

I've heard plenty of stories, though. I also know that plenty of people treat their vehicles like crap, and probably aren't good candidates for leasing..

flightnurse

kyfdx said:

I haven't run into that. Twice was with MSDs, but I've turned in at least 8-10 leased cars, with never an issue.

I've heard plenty of stories, though. I also know that plenty of people treat their vehicles like crap, and probably aren't good candidates for leasing..

I was going to post something like this, I would suspect that it all depends on how much reconditioning your car needs, if you take care of your car and it's just normal wear and tear, then it's not an issue, but if you don't care how many stains there are inside or scraps and dents and road rash on the rims, then I get could see BMW holding back some money.

tlong

I had a rented A3 sedan this past week. I have to say I was a bit underwhelmed. While I realize it was probably a base model, the interior, while nice, had quite a bit of hard door plastics, etc. IMHO the dash looks kind of cheap with the worst part being the round air vents. The driving feel was ok but not great. The engine (I assume it was a Turbo 4?) was somewhat harsh at idle but had good power upon acceleration. The leather seats were decent and the car looks attractive.

Compared to my 1998 A4 that was about the same size, the older A4 was way nicer thank the A3 IMHO.

andres3

tlong said:

I had a rented A3 sedan this past week. I have to say I was a bit underwhelmed. While I realize it was probably a base model, the interior, while nice, had quite a bit of hard door plastics, etc. IMHO the dash looks kind of cheap with the worst part being the round air vents. The driving feel was ok but not great. The engine (I assume it was a Turbo 4?) was somewhat harsh at idle but had good power upon acceleration. The leather seats were decent and the car looks attractive.

Compared to my 1998 A4 that was about the same size, the older A4 was way nicer thank the A3 IMHO.

Can't argue with you that it seems Audi finally took some cost cut measures when making the current generation A3's interior. I love the round air vents though, that's our only disagreement. The driving feel; did you toss it around?, feels like a very light and lively chassis to me. The 1.8T I'm not a fan of; the 2.0T should be standard, better power, and better fuel economy at the same time. Before someone argues, note the 2.0T adds quattro without losing MPG, that's better efficiency by a large margin. The 2.0T is a stellar engine.

tlong

I couldn't toss it as I pretty much drove the freeways. Also my rental seemed to bottom out the front right shock as if there was no damping - it was a huge chunk on speedbumps, etc. So I had to baby it a bit - but the car had 18K miles on it so don't know how that had happened. I reported it to the rental company upon return.

andres3

I wonder when rental companies will start installing dash cams into the cars to see just how abused rentals are during rental periods.

kyfdx

tlong said:

I couldn't toss it as I pretty much drove the freeways. Also my rental seemed to bottom out the front right shock as if there was no damping - it was a huge chunk on speedbumps, etc. So I had to baby it a bit - but the car had 18K miles on it so don't know how that had happened. I reported it to the rental company upon return.

The Quattro version comes with a more powerful engine...

Sandman6472

We love our A3 with the 1.8T engine to be honest. Not one problem so far, only has been back to the dealer for their gratis wash/vacuum. Our first time going german and we are very pleased. So pleased in fact, that 12 days later, I went to our local VW store and bought a Golf hatch for myself. Had less cash to spend and wanted the versatility of a hatch to haul stuff. So far, only one issue with a starter wire that took a few days to find malfunctioning. But after a couple of days, the problem finally showed itself and that was that. Also, the lumbar handle came off twice and now fixed perfectly.
Hoping that the reliability on both will be good and so far, so good.

The Sandman

andres3

sandman_6472 said:

We love our A3 with the 1.8T engine to be honest. Not one problem so far, only has been back to the dealer for their gratis wash/vacuum. Our first time going german and we are very pleased. So pleased in fact, that 12 days later, I went to our local VW store and bought a Golf hatch for myself. Had less cash to spend and wanted the versatility of a hatch to haul stuff. So far, only one issue with a starter wire that took a few days to find malfunctioning. But after a couple of days, the problem finally showed itself and that was that. Also, the lumbar handle came off twice and now fixed perfectly.
Hoping that the reliability on both will be good and so far, so good.

The Sandman

Do you know if your wife's A3 is still made in Germany (VIN start with W), and the Golf probably made in Mexico (VIN number starts with 3 I think). After solving the Mexican teething quality control issues, I"m sure your Golf will serve you as well as any Honda for reliability and durability.

benjaminh

Luxury sales in April:

1. Mercedes Benz 29,236 +.2%

2. Lexus 24,882 -3.8%

3. BMW 24,851 -7.4%

4. Audi 17,801 +5.8%

5. Acura 16,206 +9.0%

6. Cadillac 11,236 -28.9%

7. Infiniti 10,432 +4.5%

8. Lincoln 9,776 +20.2%

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/05/u-s-auto-sales-brand-brand-results-april-2016-ytd/#more-1335338

Cadillac seems to be driving itself into a ditch. Cadillac was #1 in luxury sales from about 1920 until the late 1990s—only 20 years ago.

sda

Wow, Civic purchases are on fire and the hose on Cadillac. I think part of Cadillac's issue is pricing, just too high. Nice cars, however, and wouldn't mind having an ATS or CTS in my driveway.

stickguy

Nice to see Acura holding on.

qbrozen

Volvo is up over 22% YTD vs 2015.

A non-luxury point of interest: Scion is up nearly 53%! Maybe everyone should announce the closing of their doors for a nice sales spike.

stickguy

Some rug and furniture stores have been doing that for decades.

Michaell

qbrozen said:

Volvo is up over 22% YTD vs 2015.

I read an article somewhere that this is due almost entirely to the sales of the new XC90.

qbrozen

Michaell said:

qbrozen said:

Volvo is up over 22% YTD vs 2015.

I read an article somewhere that this is due almost entirely to the sales of the new XC90.

OH, I'm certain it is.

I bet the XT5 bolsters Caddy sales. If they offer a V Sport, I may even consider taking a look.

kyfdx

Spotted an STS-V on Monday. That has to be pretty rare.

roadburner

I don't know what Cadillac is going to do; they have a world class product but perception is taking much too long to catch up with reality...

laurasdada

Perhaps review their pricing model, study Lexus circa 1989...

roadburner

laurasdada said:

Perhaps review their pricing model, study Lexus circa 1989...

Exactly; they need to get butts in seats before they set prices as high as their competitors.