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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Kd,

    Well we both agree the 335i is a nice car. I've said it once and I'll say it again the 335i is a great performance ELLPS. The question is this ? "Is it the best one you can buy" ????? Maybe for some if your priority is strictly performance. I think the Luxury part of the title is the 2nd half of the car and that is the area where I think cars like the 08' Cadillac CTS and the Lexus IS 350 have enough advantage over the Bimmer to make it a interesting question as to what is really the best ? ;)

    Rocky
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    Rocky loves that caddy! :P
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,353
    Let's talk today. CTS is at the bottom of the list, IMO.

    Regards,
    OW
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I've test driven the CTS, but did not attempt to throw it around like a Bimmer. It's a nice enough vehicle. You take your pick of P and L and go with it.

    Statements like an ELLPS should have a 90 gig hard drive have me scratching my head. BMW only recently has started indulging in non-driver oriented tech toys, that was never their thing. I don't need a hard drive in my car, nor do I care to have one. But to some folks, the CTS revamp is a welcome thing and the new model may be miles better than the old, but saying Caddy will take over the world is a bit far-fetched.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Is it really ? It sells as well if not better than the current TL :P

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Do you think ? :P

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    but saying Caddy will take over the world is a bit far-fetched.

    kd,

    I never said Caddy is taking over the world. Those are your assumptions while they might be correct I think we agree it's not likely YET :P

    I've test driven the CTS, but did not attempt to throw it around like a Bimmer. It's a nice enough vehicle. You take your pick of P and L and go with it.

    Well obviously the current model will not drive like a 335i but it was good enough when it was introduced that sales kept climbing year after year. ;)

    Statements like an ELLPS should have a 90 gig hard drive have me scratching my head.

    Well it's really only a 40 gig hard drive but the point is all BMW's competition is investing R&D in "Gadgetology" and BMW leaves me scratching my head to as why aren't they doing the same. Where's the Luxury part of the title. Is BMW turning into just a Performance Oriented Sedan ???? Hell a 08' $18,000 Lancer, has as much if not more creature comfort features. :confuse: I'd like to see BMW focus a lil' more attention to technology and get a real navigation system w/ voice recognition, ventilated seats, and a digital surround sound system for starters.

    I don't need a hard drive in my car, nor do I care to have one.

    Well true but that is why company's that do have these minor gadgets earn customers. They want more from their car than just performance. ;)

    But to some folks, the CTS revamp is a welcome thing and the new model may be miles better than the old

    Yep, and it will sell very well and give customers the perfect balance of luxury and performance. Who knows in a few years we might see a 335i like CTS model with a Twin Turbo pushing out 400-450 horspower out of the 3.6 "High Feature" V6 just a step below the 600 horsepower "CTS-V" ;)

    Rocky
  • Rocky,

    Regarding "BMW focus a lil' more attention to technology and get a ..... digital surround sound system for start"

    My 2006 330Xi has a digital surround sound system which I think is very high quality.

    FYI, Logic 7 is a proprietary surround processing capability from Lexicon, which is part of Harmon Sepciality Group. The strength of Logic 7 is taking various input formats, such as stereo, DD 5.1, etc. and generating distinct 7.1 output channels. I have owned two Lexicon PrePros in my HT and found Logic 7 a superb processing capability that does wonders for HT. I can hear the benefits of it in my 330Xi.

    Logic 7 is not a system, but a processing capability. Notwithstanding marketing spin, I think its more accurate to say my BMW has a Harmon Kardon surround sound audio system which uses Logic 7 processing.

    Thanks
    Bruce
  • kdshapiro

    " ... But to some folks, the CTS revamp is a welcome thing and the new model may be miles better than the old ... " - very objective statement.

    I own a BMW, and also think the 08 CTS shows a lot of promise. From the pictures I've seen, the 08 CTS is stunning, and the specs look good on paper.

    When the 08 CTS is actaully available, and comparisons can be made with production models, then I will be curious to see how it stacks up.

    As an aside, I made a post in the CTS thread comparing the size of the 08 CTS with the 530Xi. I think the BMW web site had a mistake on cargo capacity, but outside of that it was uncanny just how close in size the 08 CTS is to the 07 530Xi. The only significant difference was weight, where the 530Xi is some 400 pounds lighter than the AWD 08 CTS.

    Thanks
    Bruce
  • robbiegrobbieg Posts: 326
    By saying that Cadillac is the Hyundai of the luxury car market, one is essentially saying that Cadillac can not charge the same amount for it's cars as Lexus. Agreed. However, I think the Cadillac CTS sales will increase because the interior is much better in the 2008. Thus, a buyer might be willing to overlook the fact that it doesn't handle like a BMW because the interior is nice, assuming that the GM beancounters don't trash the interior. With the current CTS, one can't overlook the relatively poor handling because the interior is awful.

    A question, isn't the top CTS, the 3.6, engine available in the G6?
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,353
    CTS sales will be high. I believe 3 series and A4 sales will increase as well and perhaps CTS will take sales away if performance is on par with these.

    I doubt it but let us consider that any true test of the US performance proposition up until now is weak at best when it comes to all aspects of a true driver's car. Notably in this category. It reminds my of skiing or bobsledding in the Olympics about now. Once in a while a real good American gets in the top 3.

    So, if you want an edgy average ELLPS, CTS is for you.

    If you like to drive and experience a car that actually is part of your perception of performance and balance, you will be rewarded with a 3'er, IMHO.

    Regards,
    OW
  • The A4 is too big? How small is your wife? To me every car in this segment is too small except the TL and the CTS. (The current CTS feels almost cavernous compared to the rest. Even I think it's a bit big for this segment.) (The G35, X-Type and 3 series are borderline.)

    Congrats on your purchase!
  • The A4 is too big? How small is your wife? To me every car in this segment is too small except the TL and the CTS.

    How big are you! ;)

    The weight of the A4 and it's dimensions are noticeable from within the car. The interior's sort of cramped but that just makes the exterior feel even more ginormous. We're both pretty small - I'm 5-7 and she's 5-4.

    We've got a similar preference for small, responsive cars. Unfortunately, that's a hard thing to find in an age where compact cars weigh over 3000 lbs.
  • reality2reality2 Posts: 303
    Give the Audi A3 a look? It is smaller than an A4, but has a very nice presence. It looks bigger than it is, yet it is quite responsive. Interior especially up front is quite roomy and the interior is spot on. The 2.OT with S-Line option looks great.
  • reality2reality2 Posts: 303
    I agree with you Bruce. I own a couple Audis, but I find the CTS looking pretty good, especially up front. It has the similar sharp "curves" like Audi uses in its design statements. The interior looks better as well at least in pictures. As for the drive, I am not sure it can match an A4 or 3-Series, but the CTS is good looking car nevertheless. Though, its size, I am not sure where it competes exactly.
  • We've settled on the A3 for her, actually. She fell in love with it on a drive through the twisties this past weekend - size, interior quality, power all hit the spot for her. We're now keeping our eyes peeled for an 06. Figure eventually some used models will show up near us. Right now only 3 used ones are listed within 50 miles of San Diego.

    I wonder if the A3 is an ELLP wagon/hatch? I'd say A4 but what is the A3 then? A tweener?
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    the Art & Science thing to have morphed into something a little more to my tastes by '08, but they've got a look and they're staying with it.

    I hope they do well; I'm enthused by the turn around and impressed by the staying power.

    Not going on my list though. Too big and still too American. If I were going to buy something of such mass, I'd wait for the G8 which appeals to me more on the outside, and looks to have an interior more along Audi lines (Lutz admitted they used them as the mark).

    No, I'm in the KDS, BGDC, et al corner on the sizing. These things have been supersized all the way out of their classes, to the point that they have had to start importing whole new classes to get the feel back.

    A3 is a perfect size, IMO. I find plenty of room on the inside with wife and kids in place and I'm 6'-even (6'-1" on a bad hair day) 183 pounds.
    But alas, the market will go where it will go!
  • Wale,

    Has it been a good car for you? I'm admittedly a tad nervous going back to VW/Audi world but she really, really likes the car.

    Plus, I'm enamored with the GTI (though I can't stomach having two variations of the same car in one household).

    BGDC
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    I never sold the IS wagon BG. I took the Mrs. and young'uns on an extended test drive in the A3 once the 3.2s showed up on the lots. I loved it. Not surprising really, since the dimensions and layout are remarkably similar to what I have.

    Didn't love it enough to part with my little mule though. I bought out the residual, which ended up some $9K below book, and I'm going to keep it for my daughter who will drive in another [gulp] two years (permit). I'm not a religous man, but prayers will be appreciated...

    I'll see what's available in two years time. I hear on the wind a truly foul rumor that the A4 will again advance in size, making it basically the A6 I saw when I first became interested in the A4! That means that the S4 Avant will finally be simply too large for my tastes by then.

    That G35 coupe may end up in the driveway after all...
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Thanks for the explanation ;)

    Rocky
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