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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,279
    . . .and I've only had to replace a window actuator. . .

    Would that have been the driver's window? Mine is starting to make some odd noises, and after having had to replace window regulators 7 times (that's right, 7) on my last car, I'm very tuned in to how the performance changes before the outright failure.

    Either way, I may have one coming on the TSX.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642
    Honda dropped the Accord Hybrid since it didn''t get any better mileage and the cost was too high.....
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642
    Ray when I build any 3 series currently the Auto is automatically chosen for me, was never that way even the 335is. Also there is no M Sport package for any 3 series (except for the M3.) Not that I'm not saying one can not be build, their website does not show manual 3 series (except for M3) or the M sport package. My 328i has the M sport package its the close's I'll get a M3 for a while.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642
    FOr some reason BMW's USA website defaults all cars to an Automatic, it has never done this before, the packages for the 3 series have been halved between the 11 MY to 12 MY. So i assumed BMW was just making the 3 series with limited packages to until the new 3 series comes out. I could have been wrong, or their website has a serious issue.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    I don't know why you can't find it, but I didn't have any problem finding the M Sport pkg on the BMW web site, in the build section, under "Options", when configuring a 328 coupe.

    I'm sure it's available for convertibles as well.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,530
    edited December 2011
    Copied directly from the Build on the web site -
    2012 328i coupe:

    M Sport Package $2,800

    For example...

    And, since this is a 'sedan' forum -
    the 328i sedan:

    M Sport Package $3,750

    And an example of current [ new ] 3 inventory
    at my local dealer - a 335i:

    ZM2
    M Sport PKG
    $2,800.00
    18" x 8.0" front & 18" x 8.5" rear star-spoke alloy wheels (style 193M)
    P225/40R18 front & P255/35R18 rear run-flat performance tires
    sport seats
    aerodynamic kit
    shadowline exterior trim
    anthracite headliner
    increased top speed limiter

    And the dealer where I ordered mine has a 335i
    with a manual trans. in stock -
    confirmed by a picture on the web site:

    Bodystyle 2 door Coupe
    Engine 3.0L I-6 cyl
    Transmission Manual 6 Speed
    Ext. Color Jet Black
    Int. Color Saddle Brown
    Stock Number B4500
    Vin WBAKG7C56CE263179
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,505
    edited December 2011
    Basically, auto is now no-cost option for those '12 non-sedan 3-series. In "options" tab, you just need to uncheck it, but you'll get no credit.

    It's the last year of E9x platform. Now, my understanding is new F-platform 328 ans 528 sedans will be std. w/ 8-speed auto. Not sure, if manual will now be reserved for 335 and 535 only, or what the deal will be. Will have to wait to see.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,754
    Would that have been the driver's window?

    No, actually it was the passenger window, which doesn't get used very much. The window would stop and auto reverse part way up, for no reason. I would take a number of tries to get it closed.

    Apparently that was a known problem with the TL.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "Ray when I build any 3 series currently the Auto is automatically chosen for me, was never that way even the 335is. Also there is no M Sport package for any 3 series (except for the M3.) Not that I'm not saying one can not be build, their website does not show manual 3 series (except for M3) or the M sport package. My 328i has the M sport package its the close's I'll get a M3 for a while."

    Then you're using a different web site than I am. Case in point, I just used the "Build Your Own" feature to configure a 2011 328i with a 6-Speed Manual, with Cold Weather Package, Convenience Package, M Sport Package, Premium 2 Package, and Harmon Kardon Audio; the MSRP came out to $45,500.

    With the above said, BMW is no longer building the 2011 E90 model and is ramping up production of the 2012 F30 3-Series which will hit our shores in the next couple of months.
  • All mainstream cars are pretty boring so I looked at premium sector. I can hardly call it luxury cars since any sub-prime mortgage holder can afford one, so if you are rich consider something different.

    BMW 3-series - the best engineer car in segment. Comfortable, crisp, precise, good steering ans so on. As some say - fits as a glove. The only problem I had with it - unnaturally heavy steering at parking lot speeds, compact size and small trunk. It is a personal performance sedan, not luxurious but worth every penny. It is more expensive than other cars because of engineering effort went into its design.

    CTS - pretty refined except of engine. Steering is the most balanced in the group, good handling and unlike Infinity - comfortable and is not cramped. Next choice it you do not want BMW.

    Infinity G-series - I felt like I do not belong to interior - difficult to find comfortable position. Good handling, good transmission and engine and steering is very good also but ride is too harsh. I felt like beaten up after test drive. If you are going to commute every day - it is not for you - you will get tired soon. Unlike BMW it achieved good handling not because of superior engineering but because of making it harsh. It might be more reliable though than both CTS and BMW.

    Buick Regal - steering is very light - like in Acura - but unlike Acura it is precise. Engine is week and interior is high quality but not luxurious. May be not as reliable as Acura though. But it is certainly better handler and has considerably better steering. Reliability might be a concern - it after all is a German car made by GM.

    TSX - steering is numb, numb, numb. I felt scary because lack of any feedback from steering wheel. Engine is certainly better than in Buick. Ride is comfortable but does not feel as solid as in Buick. Might be reliable though but keep it mind troublesome transmission - Honda is famous for engines but have problematic transmissions.

    MKZ - it is a Fusion. It feels like Fusion, looks like Fusion and has too many cheap bits in interior like Fusion. I did not insist in seriously testing it. I will wait to see new 2012 to make final judgement.

    Audi A4 - it is superior to both TSX and Regal and I suspect new Fusion/MKZ too. Has to buy AWD version to really enjoy it. But reliability over years proved to be disastrous. As with all VWs I know that after warranty expires there will be a lot of very expensive repairs. No matter how I like it and I always liked it very much - it is not practical car for working people who have to make living by commuting to work every day. It may work if you lease until warranty expires. I wish I was a rich dude, but I am not - my money are hard earned. BTW I would prefer Audi to BMW.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Disagree on the g. While its not Lexus vault like, it's a very good commuter car. I drive less than stellar roads and feel perfectly comfortable in it. I do agree it drives like the tires are nailed to the road.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,593
    edited December 2011
    I agree with your opinion and assessment of the Infiniti as a commuter car. Although reliable, it (G37 Coupe) was uncomfortable for me, and its boy-racer sounding engine and hard ride were tiring on a daily high mileage basis.

    (No offense to Infiniti enthusiats.)
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    Again the new 4 door g37 (non-sport) has been tamed a bit due to old folks making comment on its engine noise. At highway speeds under no duress it's as quiet as my moms accord. The 2 door I cannot speak of. This class is both Lux and performance- if you are looking for an entry level lux car that is quiet go with the Es350 or Acura Tl. Cars that are well built but for the most part won't excite you on the onramps.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    No offense taken. Different strokes for different folks.
  • Accord is actually quite noisy. Better idea is to compare it with Cadillac and BMW - direct competition. I found G to be not as civilized as CTS or BMW. It is more in muscle car category. I forgot to mention Mercedes and Lexus, but those are off my list. I drove Mercedes E-class before and felt it to be too quiet and refined - not for me. I suspect Lexus is similar. Both Mercedes and Lexus are probably for very old folks (even though I am not a young dude). I mean they are what Lincoln and Caddie used to be. Most likely along with Toyota they will take replace of Lincoln, Buick and Cadillac as preferred transportation for retirees.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    The e class should be more refined - its a level up. I think you are on o something with the g - it does sound like it has more grunt because it does then the others in the conversation. The cts is a nice rig when given the big engine, lets not forget the V class, the 335 is the standard for sure- but throwing dollars in the conversation the muscle car can go toe to toe- dispite the louder notice going from standstill to 60 in under 5.5. Think about all the ear plugs you can buy for 10k, or better yet just turn up the Bose- the black keys sound terrific during those on ramp bursts
  • C-class and Lexus IS are too compact for me to consider. And besides IS like Corolla and VW Beetle is driven mostly by ladies. I mean I would ignore car-for-ladies factor it if I liked it but I do not. Therefore E class and Lexus ES. But I cannot force myself to seriously consider ES and E-class is out of price range anyway. IMO Infinity G is for young people. When I was younger I cared about performance more than about comfort. But still premium car at least must be comfortable.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    This class is not premium- its entry level - now if the criteria is lux, performance and price - hard to argue G vs any car here. Some are quieter, one is a better performer and few have the piece advantage
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,593
    edited December 2011
    I prefer the "quiet" of an Audi, E-Class or BMW 3 or 5-Series ;) .
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    edited December 2011
    Thats fine I prefer performance and 10k (if looking at a 2011 335 comparison) . Btw good luck getting a 5 series or e class for 40k- again the title of the blog is entry level. - I would prefer an Austin Martin coupe as well if this wasnt entry level performance sedans forum.

    . I would also prefer a g6 plane for trips to maimi over jet blue middle seat.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,593
    edited December 2011
    My point was that I've had them and do like them (Infiniti and Acuras), but I prefer German over Japanese for overall driving experience.

    (Sween, I agree with the obvious tone of your post that I've expressed more expensive rides than ELPS :D .)
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    I also have caviar tastes but McDonald's bankroll (or as someone mentioned sub-prime holder status). I think you have to be careful thou- if you compare an a6 or 535 to a Infiniti g - I will come down on you hard. In a perfect world I would be retired by now at 35, but this whole subprime thing has gotten me sideways.

    That being said your thought on Audi a4, BMW 3 or MB c class are always Welcome.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,593
    I hear you on this economy. It has taken some of the wind out of my sail for my car enthusiasm.

    I would compare a 535 to a G37 only to say that the latter has more bang for the buck.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642
    Interesting that you think the G sedan is for young people, why not look at the Buick Lucerne then.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642
    The 5 series has more room in the back over the G, so not too sure how you can compare them.
  • My experience exactly -- so far, nothing beats the German car driving experience within the $40K - $55K price range. And, come to think of it my one and only Audi A8 (which was north of $55K by a five figure number) would be my preference over any Lexus, too.

    My friend's 5 series came off lease. He looked at a new BMW (5 series, I presume); he seems to have the money to get what he wants (within reason), he got a new Genesis sedan (which I have sat in but not driven). I am not sure if he will get another Genesis next time, but so far he thinks it was a great value and at least a very good (if not great) car.

    Although the exterior look is somewhat derivative, the interior is a great interpretation of lux from any country. The transmission has 8 cogs and he claims tons of power.

    I think he said the lease turned out to be $299 per month (wow!)

    Anyway MY point is to agree that, so far, the Germans make the best car if driving is of interest to you.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642
    Interesting that you talk about the Genesis, I travel for work a lot, and the only company I rent from is National, I have Emerald Club Executive Elite status with them, on my last rental with them in Indy I was able to get a Genesis, I was highly impressed with the car, it was quite, road well, very comfortable car, however the over all experience was just bland no personality to it at all, which is typical for an Asian car. I have seen the Genesis Spec R which would be a great car however the reviews continue to day, not sporty enough. Jan 3rd I'm back in Indy again and will try and get the Infiniti M37X.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    I am also interested in this genesis r spec and would love to drive one at some pt- price and power very interesting - if only they could add awd. While I agree with you that Germans make the best driver cars your pot shot at the Asians didnot go unnoticed - drive a 6speed g37 tell me it's bland experiance.
  • I have to assume that AWD is in the Genesis pipeline. I suspect they need another year or two to refine their "house made" 8-spd transmission. From what I read it is a notch lower in refinement to the ones used by Audi and BMW.

    BTW, is it true that Infiniti sources its 7-spd from Mercedes? And, is it true that the first year the 7-spd had some software problems but that they have since been corrected?

    Our late 2010 build 2011 FX35 AWD has the 7-spd and it has presented zero problems and zero recalls in 18,000+ miles. The only thing I do notice about the FX35's "character" is that the engine makes coarser sounds than the Acura 3.7L engine, but this trait is really only evident at very high RPM's and/or when the accelerator is floored.

    It should be improved by Infiniti, no doubt, as the Infiniti engine refinement is not quite up to Audi, BMW or even, Honda, er Acura smoooothness.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    edited December 2011
    To me it doesn't matter how the engine sounds at wot. The G37 will almost beat the 335 and is a rocket. For $45K if one stays away from the coupe models, you can get a fully loaded vehicle for a family of two is big enough for most occasions. (The occasions it's not big enough, neither is the Audi or Acura either)

    A 335 will cost $50K+ for the same equipment level. Having said that I don't think I would necessarily buy a fully loaded 335, but there are those who compare feature to feature.
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