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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,593
    Some prefer fast and loud, others (like me) prefer not-as-fast and quieter, more refined. As was said, different strokes...
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,593
    In fact a base G37 handles better then a base 335i.

    Huh?? Say what??
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    I don't get what your saying at all. Nsx, golf, sentra, what ?
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642
    Mark I looked and can not find anything that states the infiniti 7spd tranny is from MB...
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642
    Sween, you didn't if the car has to be new, I can think of a couple.

    E55 Wagon
    M3
    M5
    RS4
    RS6
    S8
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642
    The engine in the pathfinder is not the same engine in the G or M cars. BTW, I prefer pre 72 240Z, too much smog on the 73 240Z...

    I had a 70 240Z in high school, the car ran MUCH better once the SU carbs were taken off and triple Weber's were placed on it..
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,662
    +1 on that fedlawman. The interior of the new Grand Cherokee is gorgeous. If we didn't need our Pilot, that'd be the truck on my wife's side of the garage.

    Powered By Honda2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD

  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    Back to your "leader" adds ways great post as always
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "Have they finally sorted out their transmissions?"

    The V8 transmissions are the same 5-Speed unit that debuted in the Mercedes E-Class years ago; the new 8-Speed unit (currently only in use on the new and very impressive Pentstar 3.6 V6) was co-developed with ZF and is also in use on new BMW models. As I understand it, the initial incarnation of the 8-Speed cannot handle the torque of the V8 engines (especially the SRT-8), however, there is an uprated unit already being tested which should be fitted to the bigger engines in the next year or so.

    Does any of that say they've got their issues sorted? No, not specifically, but it's a reasonably good bet. :)
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,754
    Some prefer fast and loud, others (like me) prefer not-as-fast and quieter, more refined. As was said, different strokes...

    Careful --- you'll be called an old man!
    I'm sure a Camaro or Mustang is also a good car for those where noise and harshness is not a priority. :P
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited December 2011
    Exactly.

    We're not talking about sports cars here. All of these cars sacrifice sport for added luxury/comfort. The level of sacrifice is up to buyer preference.

    And you do get what you pay for in this segment. The G might have a lower price of admission than some of the others here, but it also lacks some key features that others have standard.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    We are certianly not talking sports i agree - but performance for sure. What are the key features it lacks?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    In base form, it lacks a moonroof, 18" wheels, manual transmission, and driver memory settings.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    Moonroof can't argue, drivers memory ok again you got me - does BMW offer these as standar? I really don't know. How about leather? 18' are again options on all in the group. Can you get 18s on a tsx? The manual arguement is valid- bit sadly this country going away from using it- look at the TL (5-10%, I forget the number) are sold with manual transmissions and they prob produce the best self shifter on the planet.

    Good try. But add the premium package and 18s on a g37 and it's still hovering 40kmsrp
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    I'm not trying anything.

    The G is a nice car, but I'm pointing out that depending on one's priorities, it's not the bargain some might think it is. Sure, you can add these features to the G, but then all of a sudden, the G costs $40,000.

    The C350 is a very nice $40,000 car...
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,593
    "Some prefer fast and loud, others (like me) prefer not-as-fast and quieter, more refined. As was said, different strokes... "

    Careful --- you'll be called an old man!


    I've been called worse ;) .
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    And if you add all those features to others in this category they all hover over 40k. Except tHe g comes with that noisey engine that turns 328 hp when others max out at 305. Your examples of what it does not come with are pretty much what others don't come with so your point about the price advantage in null. Price out that nice c350 and see how much it comes out to with leather, a sunroof and 18inxhers. 40k really?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited January 2012
    Some of those features do come standard on the other cars, so it is a valid point.

    C350 w/leather, moonroof, and sport suspension w/18" wheels = $44,240
    G37 w/leather, moonroof, and sport suspension w/18" wheels = $43,245

    (I actually prefer leatherette and 17" wheels, so my C350 would cost $41,450)

    It's not the volume of the noise that's offensive, it's the quality of the noise that matters. If the G37 sounded like a turbine powered sewing-machine at WOT, nobody would mention it.

    And your power argument only holds sway if you value being 0.2 or 0.3 secs faster than the Volvo or Acura next to you at a stoplight (of course, if the road is wet, that's a different story, huh?). In the real world, on real roads, the difference in power is insignificant.

    Again, it's not my intention to bash the G37 - it's a great car. For the shopper who values bang for the buck and doesn't mind a little roughness around the edges, it's a terrific value in the segment. But for many buyers, regardless of features, the fact that the G37 doesn't do luxury as well as some of the other cars here is a deal breaker. And add a few options that many buyers expect in this segment, and the value fades.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited January 2012
    I've been half seriously looking at cars again to replace my wife's Volvo, and I test drove a 2012 Passat on Thursday.

    Woah, what a nice car!

    It's not a sporty sedan so it doesn't qualify for this segment, but it's not bad. It feels nimble and corners pretty flat but the steering is numb. The VR6 has serious guts though, without significant torque steer. It's also got a beautiful, elegant, simple, airy cabin with a very high quality leatherette (!) interior and a well designed touch-screen infotainment system. The cockpit compares well with the best of this segment, and the back seat is huge with unbelievable legroom and a cavernous trunk.

    MSRP was $29,000 for the V6 with sunroof, and it comes with pretty much all the features anyone would want. I honestly would have a hard time justifying spending $10K more for one of the subjects of this thread.

    I'm not ready to buy yet, but I was sorely tempted to take it home. It's now haunting my thoughts...
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    Sounds like you found your next rig congrats. I also like the vw passat, after all it's car of the year . I would suggest you check out the turbo desil -Gets 700 miles per tank, but given your last posts the torque and potential sound coming from the engine might get you sideways. Does it come standard with 18's?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited January 2012
    Unfortunately, 18" wheels are standard. I would prefer the 17's, which are standard on the TDI. I've never driven a TDI, so I don't know if I would like it or not (the sound quality or power delivery).

    Our Volvo is an I-5 and it's not the most refined motor either. My wife is the primary driver and she thinks it's fine, but I don't love it. The VR6 would be a little ($3500) indulgence for the rare occasions that I would drive it.

    I also really prefer wood trim accents, but it's only offered on the top-level SEL. The SEL includes Navigation and real leather, which I don't want. Damn packages...
  • Yeah, but Passat has absolutely boring looks. The reason we pay extra for premium cars because want have style, comfort and good qaulity materials in interior and most of them perform well too. All those mainstream cars style range from ugly to boring and interior from ugly to cheesy. Nobody mention Volvo S60 so far btw. I find it is cramped.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    edited January 2012
    speaking of darn packages - i jsut did a little research and while your pricing on both the infiniti and mb c350 are correct you failed to mention a couple of things-- ONE you maxed out a G37- meaning it has all the options premium, nav, and sports package... but with the MB it was a bait and switch approach - remember they have 2 colors for free paint other colors cost 700bux...sure you added 1k in wheels(need those 18 inchers remember) for your MB-- but where are the nav packages- the leather?- 1200 bux if you want xenon lights, 2700 for the backup and nav, 650 for keyless start..get my drift- these are in the packages you added for the G--

    Your Build
    MSRP $40,575
    Additional Costs $8,660 (this does not include a 700bux paint charge)
    Transportation Charge $875
    Total $50,110

    Estimate Payment (no thanks)

    Pricing is powerful -but to prove your point you must be true

    enjoy the VDUB
    (stay out of the left lane)
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited January 2012
    I optioned both cars the way YOU listed in your post (#12838):
    "Price out that nice c350 and see how much it comes out to with leather, a sunroof and 18inxhers."

    I then explained that I don't like leather seating or 18" wheels and that the Mercedes I would personally order costs $41,450.

    So, how is it on me that Infiniti bundles key features within bloated and overpriced packages? They do it on purpose to FORCE the consumer to spend thousands extra on stuff they don't want. Do you think it's an accident that in order to get the Sport Package, you also have to order the Navigation Package? That's $4000 for a laundry list of stuff you probably don't need and wouldn't have ordered, but you have to swallow it if you want your G37 to handle and stop a little better. :confuse:

    So, if I were to buy a G37, I would have to pass on the Sport Package and simply get the Journey + Premium Package for $39,245. That's only $2000 less than the Mercedes. Every buyer has different priorities, so the numbers might be different for others, but for me, the value of the G37 (which is it's strongest asset) has been significantly diminished.

    So how did this happen? Mercedes offers the C350 with sport suspension and moonroof standard, and offers the leather and 18" wheels a la carte. This serves the customer - if the customer doesn't want leather or 18" wheels, they don't have to buy them. Yes, if you want metallic paint on a European car, you have to pay for it, but at least you don't have to order the Shiatsu Massage and Curb Feeler Packages to get it.

    And enough with the annoying "left lane" remark. In this era of 300 hp family cars and 400 hp pony cars, 328 hp is nothing to brag about. If you really spend that much time in the left lane, I hope you have the decency to check your rearview mirror often. :P
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    edited January 2012
    guess im in the spin zone.. only 2k less- well yes lawman-(after you option them out the way you want it,)- its 2k less but again i guess i get the leather, the standard keyless start and yes the 700 paint job for free as well-- do i guess the spread is a little more then the 2k you speak of=- o wait i also get xenon lights which are standard on most as well.. please spare me on the ala cart stuff as if you add them up - you want leather well that will cost you, you forgot your previous arguement when you said the G fails to give standard features -- you want paint, you want leather, you want keyless start..your value being diminished is a joke- dollar for dollar-- its 7k in savings as equiped-- hello - thats some decent coin. The other thing you failed to mentioned is trying to find a MB as you want it with leatherette and no options-- good luck-- if you order one you will be paying msrp because you will have to order one.. please do homework because you are in a fight you cant win.. and your aggrument is strongly diminished..

    The asian car companies "force" packages on you because it makes production easier-- and in doing so can offer a 328hp car for less.

    I would rather you argue the VW passat vs the G25 then this -- please provide true $ for $ - or you will be called out and lose.

    ive seen you in the rear mirror a couple of times-- this time on this topic--continue to take vw passat as this topic will pass in 2012.. have a happy new year.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,754
    I would rather you argue the VW passat vs the G25 then this

    Is the G25 engine harsh, too, or is it more refined than the G37? Isn't the 25 a four-banger?
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    google.com

    just came out- check it out
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,754
    google.com

    just came out- check it out


    I did that. It's a six and I found this posting when googling "G25 NVH":

    "Well I have to say this is a bit disappointing.

    I was hoping for a "G30" with a VQ30DD or something, but instead we get a VQ25 that's down a bit on power and still has NVH issues?"

    Thanks for the help sweeney! :P
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,754
    I also found this interesting post courtesy Google:

    "In almost every comparison test where there has been a G35 tested against the E46 3 series, it has lost. You stick to thinking that your mad horzepowerz yo! is where it's at. All I gotta say is, I regret not test driving a 328 before I got my G37. I test drove the 335, and that car was utterly amazing, but for an extra 12k more, I decided to stick with the Infiniti. I got my bike for my speed fix. And that is what I should have thought about when I was buying the car. I thought the 328 would be disappointing after the 335 and the G37, but I was wrong. I test drove one a year after I got my G37 and the car drives amazing. The engine feels a million times smoother than the VQ and the throttle is not as abrupt. The clutch is a million times better. It absorbs bumps and imperfections on the road better as well. Other than the obvious lack of horsepower, which any adult really would not miss nor exploit on regular roads, the BMW, in any range of the 3 series, is a dynamically better car.

    Every time a comparison is done, same complaints come up for the Infinitis....too much NVH from the engine, disconnected steering, non linear braking, poor clutch engagement...and what do they do every year? Up the horsepower....go figure.

    And they do aim it at a certain audience that buys into it that believes that horsepower matter more than anything else."
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