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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,139
    I find it funny that it's mid feb and no sedan on local dealers lot - maybe because I live in AWD country and they have yet to build them.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,498
    2012 3XXix and 335d sedan will be still old body and engines, just like coupe and convertible. I don't have any insider info, but new Fxx body will probably be 2013 for those. No way to say when, if all of it will come at fall, or if they space it out from spring to winter, as they usually do. Strategically it is better to have something to talk about every three months than have big talk once, but production lines have to be switched. When I was in Munich in October, they were making both new sedan and old wagon bodies on the same line, but that may be unique to that place.

    For now, new body/engine will only be on 328i and 335i sedans, which is announced, but I don't think it has come to lots yet.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,218
    edited February 2012
    Around OH, KY, IN, TN, etc, a loaded 328i with M and other options are tough to come by. They usually reserve those options for the 335i. That said, $47K for a 328i is a ton of money. I can buy a 335i for less than that.

    That said, BMW dealers don't sell at a loss. They'll hold on to a 328i like you describe, use it as a loaner, or a demo. But, dealers sell just about all the ones they can get their hands on. IF you bought it at $7K-$8K off MSRP, the option list may not be what is reported, or it has a bunch of miles on it as a demo/loaner.

    BTW.....took my 3er in to have the oil changed (6K miles, paid for it out of my own pocket....next one is on BMW), and they let me drive a '12 328i sedan. Interesting with a 4 cy...drive train's a lilttle rough.... uncharacteristic of a BMW. Significantly down on power compared to mine, too.

    From the outside, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between an '11 and a '12. Interesting interior (don't know the name of it). Looks like the interior of a 5 series. IF you like the 5, you'll like the new 3.

    But, as mentioned, the coupe/'vert for '12 is the same as my '11 coupe. So, not significant changes there for awhile.

    Ride, handling, etc? About the same as an '11.

    As I told my sales person (who is always nice to me when I stop by), "I'd take a steeply discounted '11 over this "updated" '12".

    He agreed with me.

    Should be interesting to see the sales numbers this year. They say MPG will go way up on the '12. But, I'm getting 23-24 MPG in mixed driving on mine, already. And, I've got a heavy right foot.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,631
    Motor Trend reported that only the Sedan will be available for 2012, coupe and convertible will be old body style. Mid summer BMW will release the M package for the 328i and 335i. A 4 cyl diesel to be released by fall (look for mid 40's highway mpg.) The 6 cyl diesel will be dropped from the 3 series completely when the 4 cyl diesel is released.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,631
    In Phoenix I test drove a 2012 328i sport with tech package and assorted goodies, price was 42K. I liked it, the turbo 4 pulls very strong, yes it is faster then 2011 328i, the car has more room in it, and an adult that is 6 ft tall can fit in the rear seat comfortably. Over all nice car, the new M package will give more power to the turbo 4, dealer does not know how much though, however i'm guessing 10-15hp more, kind of like the 330i with the ZPH package did.

    Sween I doubt BWM dealers in your neck of the woods wont a regular 328i they want it with iDrive, wont happen until fall. The there are a couple of big markets for 3 series, So Florida, So Cal and Nor Cal, so I'm guess those markets and markets close to them will have first choice of cars.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,631
    You are assuming too much, first off, I wasn't looking to buy a car the day I bought mine, however, the offer was presented to me, thought about it, retested the car, liked it, and bought it. I didn't sit and haggle with them at all, the price was written on a piece of paper, and was explained about the "experiment" he (the GM) tried, it failed, and he wanted to move the car, he was losing money on the car. I figured he would make up the difference he lost on the car from others who purchased cars. 2 weeks after buying the car, I went back to the dealership and purchased the extra 2 yr 50K extended warranty (bumper to bumper.) So when I sell my car, I know I should get the price I want. My cars are kept in pristine condition, and all service work done to them. So please save your arm chair quarter backing for your friends and co-workers.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,537
    I completely understand your liking the 328xit over the STi for its refinement & other aspects you mentioned. A 328 isn't blazing fast, but has no trouble getting up to speed & will cruise all day long on the right side of the 80 mph hash mark.

    The STi has always been a screaming performer, but at the end of the day it is still an almost $40K car.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,278
    LOL

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,498
    All I can say good luck - I really hope you can get it. Send us a report fours years from now, would you? ;)

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,498
    Small correction - mine does not have "x" (it's a RWD - so yes I switched from AWD to RWD). They also stopped adding "t" in wagons (stands for "touring"), but it would still apply if they had ;) .

    Anyway, I love it. It is all I wanted - no more, no less. I only have two complaints - dashboard looks like it is 15 years old, designwise, and the cupholders/armrest storage really suck. I think of BMW design process like this: they develop/refine engines and transmissions for 4 years, they obsess about new/improved suspension and steering for 2 years, exterior styling takes them about 10 months, then two weeks before the premier Hans just realized they forgot about the instrument cluster (again ;) ) - so they pull one from the previous generation (which was used in one before that), slightly change fonts and send it to the marketing department... :surprise:

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,498
    edited February 2012
    That said, $47K for a 328i is a ton of money. I can buy a 335i for less than that.

    Yeah, but then you don't get a few things. My wagon was $46.5K MSRP. It took sports, premium, convenience and Nav. I guess you don't really need Nav and half of the convenience (HID is a must, but keyless start or rear sunshades are not). I would not get one without premium and sports, if not just for seats. If those seats were sold separately, I'd get them and could live with all-season rubber, on standard rims., normal suspension and speed limit at 130 (although I got it to 138 mph on German autobahn, but well ;) )

    What's funny is realization than when compared with sedan, the wagon is actually cheaper, even though it starts higher. Sedan doesn't have standard fold down seats ($500, which is absolutely ridiculous - what's worse I noticed dealers actually don't order them - can only imagine surprise on somebody's face first time they try to fold seats :sick: ), is also has no sunroof (which I understand tall people may actually prefer not to have). What's more, the wagon's sunroof is "panoramic" (about half longer, because it can fold under longer roof) - absolutely awesome, puts :D every time I reach for the button.

    Wonder if the new 328i has still fold-down seats optional.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,218
    dino....haven't looked at the 3 series wagons. Matter of fact, I don't think I've even seen one around here....regardless of model year.

    I still think it will be interesting to see what the market will do as the "new" 3 series (and 5 series) have a base 4 cyl (albeit, turbo). I know Audi has been pushing their A4 with 4 cyl motors, and that MB is doing it with their new C series.

    But, $40K+ large for a 4 cyl car is a bit of a stretch IMHO. You lose the smoothness of their 6, which is world class. I know they said the '12 328i is as fast as the previous gen 6 cyl, but it may have been lost on me. I've driven the previous 6 cyl 328. The '12 certainly doesn't feel nearly as quick.

    Should be interesting!
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,498
    edited February 2012
    It is all government's CAFE standards. Has nothing to do with actual market demand. They're doing it because they have to. By reports new 328i is even faster than previous and uses 20% less fuel. Mine getting the wagon now was no coincidence - the 6-cylinder NA engine was a big part of that decision. Didn't want to wait for the new 328i GT.

    BTW, EVERYBODY who actually sees it is person says it looks better than sedan, more sporty, better lines. Perhaps there is some flattery there, but I think the same. You get sedan's handling (car is identical up to center pillar), extra boot, and better styling? Yet, you know, it is America. They don't buy anything with word "wagon" in it...

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,498
    Small correction. I believe there is some demand for fuel efficient 3-series. But would be much better satisfied by a lower priced and even more efficient 320i (or whatever the naming would be) with something like 180 hp engine and price point slightly below current A4. Those would really sell to completely new customer base. But would probably not satisfy their CAFE goals.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,278
    That's kind of where this whole concept gets lost on me, too. There are easier way to skin the CAFE cat, so I have a hard time buying it as an excuse for turbocharged cars.

    Agree with you wholeheartedly that an NA 4-cyl wouild be even more efficient WHILE expanding their customer base. Even better than that, however, I would like to see them bring a smaller, lighter, 4-cyl base option here. Would increase efficiency considerably more. How about the 3-door and 5-door 120i? Wouldn't that be a helluva lot easier than constantly developing new engines? The 3-series is SUCH a porker now, which is the only reason I picked the 1 instead.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,139
    Is it stupid of BMW to release a Rwd only 328 and 335 in the new body style and have the old body awd cars sitting next to them with the same model year 2012 - am I missing something, it's mid feb - what took them so long to get the 2012s rolling . I understand the coupe convert saying the same body- wagon ok . But to have xdrive models in old carb , why?
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,498
    That may actually be twofold: engineering (fitting xdrive to the chassis) and manufacturing (retooling factories). They could have discontinue it altogether, but they elected to keep selling those. I don't know if I would call it stupid, but it's a little unusual to see models that seem to differ by just drive system.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,257
    edited February 2012
    . . .expanding their customer base.

    BMWNA has made it abundantly clear that they aren't interested in expanding their customer base that way -- mere plebians could then afford to drive a new BMW, and that'd never do. They prefer to sell (or, more often, lease) to those who aspire to the biggest baddest most expensive possible lifestyle, and it appears to work very well for them.

    However, the majority of the customer base that reads and responds to Roundel articles predominantly drive the older cars because they think like you (and I) do. BMWNA could give a rip less about the enthusiast market; they're here to get cars on the road, and the people who care about such things are a mere sliver of the market -- the sliver that got the brand going, but that was then and this is now.

    Oh boy. :sick:
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,139
    Sorry rest of the country but I would bet te majority of the US 4 door cars are sold up east- and would say 80% are with x-drive north of DC. I would of thought BMW would have figured out the drive system - its feb 13th.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,498
    edited February 2012
    You still can have it, just not in a new body. Plus, remember it's a global car - vast majority is sold in RWD config, x-drive is a recent development (less thasn 10 years). How do you get percentage anyway? Don't judge by what you see. Southeast, Southwest, California, Midwest, are mostly 2WD. And it's "would have thought", not "would of thought" ;)

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,537
    There's got to be a damn good reason that BMW released the new F30 3er in RWD guise only, especially since the car debuted in February. For the record, we've had snow stick to the ground exactly twice so far.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,537
    A $47K 328i is expensive, but hardly unheard of. Back in December 2007, my Mom ordered & leased a 2008 328xi with an MSRP of $46,000 + without the sports package & without navigation.

    Most 335s out there have an MSRP in the $50K range.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,537
    I agree & disagree with some points you make about BMW. You know that personally I think BMWs are insanely expensive. They are well worth the cost of admission. I'd love a NA 4cyl 3er or a small 6 pot 320i that I could buy for the low to mid $30K range. However, I don't think we're going to get it.

    I'm a BMWCCA member & enjoy reading ROUNDEL every month. We enthusiasts make up such a small percentage of the market, that we barely even register on BMWs radar screen.

    BMW is in the business of selling cars and making a profit doing so. Some of the ROUNDEL letters I read every month drive me crazy. "I can't believe BMW won't import the F10 5 series wagon...". Well, BMW sold LESS than 900 (nine hundred) of these during the last year of E60 production.

    Dino100 - I think your RWD, stick, sport pkg wagon is way cool.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,498
    I just read something in my warranty/service booklet. Spark plugs - new 4-cyl turbo needs them every 30K miles (528i and Z4 28i already have new engine), while most old 6-cylinder, turbo or not, only at 60K miles - twice as long interval. Curious.

    It may be nothing, spark plugs are cheap, but I see it as a possible sign of things to come. Nothing is free. If you get 250 horses out of 2 litters, claim 20% lower fuel cost, somethings's got to give. We shall see in five years.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,537
    While it has snowed exactly twice this season, luxury buyers expect their cars to have AWD here in the northeast. The northeast is a major market for BMW. The same way I'll bet there are 3 & 5 buyers that won't realize their 328 & 528 guise BMWs are powered by 4 cylinder engines, they might not even know that BMW makes RWD only vehicles.

    As (cheap) enthusiasts, we can only hope that in an attempt to sell a whole lotta cars that BMW leases out as many cars as possible so 3 years from now the used car market is flooded with well maintained, great driving BMWs.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,537
    Glad you made the comment about the F30 having some decent rear headroom. One of my biggest gripes with the E90 is its dimunitive size. While perfect as a second car in a family or a single person, for someone like myself who has to have child safety seats in the car it is just too small. I love the way the E90 drives though.

    Interesting comments about the coarseness of the 4cyl turbo engine. Even though my Acura's I4 isn't the balanced wondeer that the BMW I6 is, it is a pretty damn smooth engine.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited February 2012
    "I can't believe BMW won't import the F10 5 series wagon..."

    Here is a spy shot of the F10 sportback and wagon during field testing in rural Georgia...

    image
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,139
    Thanks for the grammar lesson, dinko.

    My % number was a blind number- and my comments started off by saying sorry to the rest of e country. Attack mode - Dino you lose a bone?

    I stand by what I said, BMW did a bad job with this release.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,447
    edited February 2012
    Cool! ;)

    The F in F-10 meant front wheel drive...

    (that's a Datsun, for the kids out there..)

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,447
    My E46 has a 100K mile interval for spark plugs...

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