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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "By the way, the A3 is not an econobox."

    I think chavis10 is wrongly referring to the A3 as an "econobox" because it is built on the Volkswagon A platform shared with the New Beetle and Jetta, among other cars. The $40,000+ Audi TT is also built on this platform.

    What chavis10 doesn't realize is that the size of the platform has nothing to do with the cost/economy/rigidity of the platform. You don't hear many Porsche owners complaining about the wheelbase of their 911's, do you?
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    #1. A bare-bones 328i for $33,000 is #1 on my list for it's best-in-class handling dynamics (it weighs 250 lbs less than the 335i!), solid straight-line performance (0-60 in 6 seconds flat), upscale cabin appointments, and outstanding value for the dollar.

    6 seconds flat huh? That is pretty fast for a car that doesn't have all that much HP (your same complaint for the Audi 2.0T and 3.2- with added weight)
    Where did you get this number? is it BMW's published 0-60 time?
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    6 seconds flat is definitely not slow. However, it too does not impress in today's ELLPS world since the class leaders are pushing 0-60 in around 5 seconds.

    Due to the lack of straight line performance (I value this criteria more than handling), the followings would not be on my list if I am in the market for one today:

    A4 (both 2.0T and 3.2)
    CTS 2.8
    9-3 (all models)
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    BMW publishes 6.3 seconds to 60 MPH for the 328i. They are usually a little conservative compared to the car mags.

    Car & Driver tested a 2005 325i and reached 60 MPH in 6.1 seconds. The 2006 330i reached 60 MPH in 5.7 seconds.

    No single test is definitive, but based on all the magazine tests of the 325i, 330i, and factory claims for the 325i, 328i, and 330i, and factoring the relative HP and curb weights of each car, I believe the figure is accurate.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Where did you get this number? is it BMW's published 0-60 time?

    Car and driver got the less powerful 06 325 to hustle to 60 in 6.1 or .2 seconds. The 07 328i has more power and the weight's the same. 6 seconds seems achievable considering the e46 330i ZHP could pull a mid to high 5 second sprint (best i ever saw was a 5.6 but most places got a 5.8-5.9).
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Beyond the IS350 and 335, I can't recall another model in ELLPS getting near 5 seconds, let alone the 335's sub 5 second times.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,663
    The $40,000+ Audi TT is also built on this platform

    I believe the new TT is a new ASF platform...which is why it's so much lighter than the old.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,663
    Exterior matters A LOT...especially if negative. If the Aztek did everything the 335 does...but retained it’s 'unique' looks, I’d never buy or drive it.

    I tend to wash/wax and repair dents in the cars I drive, even though that is on the outside.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    Actually a car has to pass many tests for me, exterior looks, are the seats comfy, and how it drives, features etc.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    That's what I get for believing Wikipedia! :blush:
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    I think the new G35 occasionally has the 0-60 time around 5.2, 5.3 seconds. For me, that's close enough to be called "around 5 seconds".

    Also, in February R&T's Japanese sports sedan comparison, IS350 posed a 0-60 time in 4.9 seconds so currently there are 2 ELLPS that has the ability to put out sub-5 second times.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    One random test of an IS below 5 seconds does not suddenly push the car into the sub-5 second category. The 335 is consistently pulling sub 5 second runs. Nobody is saying the IS350 supplants the vaunted e46 M3; read reviews of the 335 and the comparisons to the M3 pop up over and over.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Don't worry blue, nobody is trying to dethrone the well-beloved 3er here. I was just merely stating a fact from R&T's latest sports sedan comparo.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Hey, dethrone away. I've got my e90 on swapalease. It's not like I'm in love with BMWs.
  • savvyboysavvyboy Posts: 10
    Someone's a hater.
  • nkeennkeen Posts: 316
    You are worried about reliability for the Audi but not the Saab? From everything I have read the Saab is a reliability nightmare...much worse than the Audi. Jag reliability is in the crapper too.

    Undoubtedly -- I'm biased as I just happen to have experienced VW/Audi unreliablity first hand -- loved the car (GTi) but problem after problem.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    VW and Audi are miles apart on reliability; goes to show what a company that CARES can do to quality. Yes, one owns the other, but Audi runs fairly independently.
  • Nobody is saying the IS350 supplants the vaunted e46 M3; read reviews of the 335 and the comparisons to the M3 pop up over and over.

    And, frankly, those reviewers are full of crap. The 335i is, indeed, a big step up from the former 330i. But even my nephew, who owns one, proclaimed after driving an M3, that the handling differences were enormous and the M3 is a much more aggresively tuned car all around. As far as I know, the 335i is not a significant advancement over a 330i ZHP in the handling department. Again, very good, but nowhere near M3 territory.

    If posting sub 5 second 0-60 times were all it took to invoke M3 comparisons, there would be a lot of inferior cars trying to lay claim to being comparable.
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 972
    I posted the wrong numbers in the earlier post.
    Mazdaspeed 6 (2006 model) has 90% of the maximum 280 lb/ft of torque available beginning at 1800 rpm and 90% of that 280 lb/ft for another 500 rpm past the 5500 rpm horsepower peak. The torque peak is at 2570 rpm. Peak horsepower is 274.
    The GT model is the most luxurious, not LTD as I incorrectly stated earlier.
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