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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    I haven't driven the 2nd gen G yet but I've sat in it at a showroom and I was glad to see Infiniti finally caught up with the rest of the auto world and moved the controls. But I still found it to be a bit cramped inside for my taste.

    I'm five-seven, 145 and the 2nd gen G35 was too small for me!
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 971
    Are you guys talking about the G coupe or sedan?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Sedan. The interior on the 07 g35 is very cramped.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I'm five-seven, 145 and the 2nd gen G35 was too small for me!

    You might want to try one out sober! ;)

    The G35 Sedan is bigger than a 335i IN EVERY INTERIOR DIMENSION. Front and rear shoulder room is close, front head room is substantially greater in the G35 (40.5 vs. 38.5) and, surprisingly, combined leg room in the G35 is the GREATEST of any of the ELLPS - 78.6" vs. 77.8" for the TL, 76.1" for the 335i and 74.5" for the IS350.

    I happen to know this because a friend of mine is looking to replace one of thier SUV's with a 4 person sedan and the G35 is definitely more spacious than a 3 series. He and his wife are 6'0" and 5'5" respectively and the additional 2 1/2" of combined leg room allow their two teenage kids to fit in the back of the G35 much easier than the 335i. Even the G35 may not be spacious enough, as that is the excuse he is using to consider the 550i, which is what he really wants. She wants a TL or RL, neither of which are much bigger than the G35, if at all.

    But for someone my height 5'7" to consider the G35 Sedan "very cramped"? That's not coming from the same person that thinks the 3 series has become too big, is it? What's next, you and your fiance buying a slushbox Avalon? ;)
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,261
    Even the G35 may not be spacious enough, as that is the excuse he is using to consider the 550i, which is what he really wants. She wants a TL or RL, neither of which are much bigger than the G35, if at all.


    He is going to go with his heart...let me know how he likes that car when he gets it.

    I thought the 330 was tiny when my wife urged me to get it over the 300 SRT8 (EGO CAR). I am so glad I went with it. I am 5'9" and 225. I love the seats and I fit in it just fine. Now that the Arabs are getting through their price increases, it feels good at the pump as well.

    Regards,
    OW
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    The G35 Sedan is bigger than a 335i IN EVERY INTERIOR DIMENSION. Front and rear shoulder room is close, front head room is substantially greater in the G35 (40.5 vs. 38.5) and, surprisingly, combined leg room in the G35 is the GREATEST of any of the ELLPS - 78.6" vs. 77.8" for the TL, 76.1" for the 335i and 74.5" for the IS350.

    That doesn't mean squat in relation to the driving position. I drove the car, i know how it felt and it felt claustrophobic. The side of the door felt too close, my right arm seemed to continually bang on the center console, the steering wheel fat big, fat and intrusive. These are all feelings.

    I've sat in the back of cars before that say they have exceptional leg room - like the current honda accord - yet because the seat is so low to the floor, they're far, far more uncomfortable for me than even an old Mrk IV Jetta - which had seemingly little legroom but because the seats were so high, one could sit bolt up right, knees cocked at 90 degrees. This is where tape measurements fail...they can't convey actually feeling something in person.

    I happen to know this because a friend of mine is looking to replace one of thier SUV's with a 4 person sedan and the G35 is definitely more spacious than a 3 series. He and his wife are 6'0" and 5'5" respectively and the additional 2 1/2" of combined leg room allow their two teenage kids to fit in the back of the G35 much easier than the 335i.

    The backseat may be bigger. The front seat was insanely tight for me. What else is there to say? you have an opinion and I have one. I pretty much despised the 07 G35. The front seat space felt surprisingly similar and tight to the IS350. Regardless of dimensions quoted there's a feeling people get when they sit in a car. The G35 felt okay until I started to drive it and then it felt tight and claustrophobic.

    That's not coming from the same person that thinks the 3 series has become too big, is it?

    Again, what's your problem? Yes, the e90 is too big on the inside for me - do you get it's a personal preference? The lack of cockpit feel, the super wide front seat, the expanse from door to door makes the car feel very buick-like. The e46's interior was better for me. No other way to put it. Add to the fact that compared to the e46 the e90 is also heavier, longer, more isolated, has less roadfeel and overall feels like a barge, yeah, sorry if I'm not doing cartwheels over the car.

    The G35 felt worse as I had the sensation of being squeezed by the dash, sides, etc. The car's banal power delivery, chatty-rough engine, heavy and numb steering and the total lack of flingability ruined the drive. It was not an edge of your seat fun car - it was more 5 series clone. And truth be told not too far off from my e90 - which I don't like either.

    I've got a narrow range of what I find acceptable. Picky in the extreme about everything. I want it all - decent space, power, handling, lightweight, docile when requested, loud and brash when pushed. At this point, no car really achieves that. The e90 is close but the weight, isolation and size issue make the car impossible for me to enjoy. My ZHP was a car that fit me better - save for its lack of power; unfortunately, now there are only used ones available, and BMW builds such crappy cars there's little chance i'll take a used bimmer.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Again, what's your problem?

    Lighten up, I have no problem. The ";)" were intended to convey that I was pulling your leg.

    "...do you get it's a personal preference? I've got a narrow range of what I find acceptable. Picky in the extreme about everything."

    That's fine too, I've been known to be more than a little picky myself. However, it's also pretty obvious from your "review" that you despise the G35 for a whole variety of reasons...

    "The car's banal power delivery, chatty-rough engine, heavy and numb steering and the total lack of flingability ruined the drive. It was not an edge of your seat fun car - it was more 5 series clone. And truth be told not too far off from my e90 - which I don't like either."

    I suspect the G35's "insanely tight" front seat would probably not have bothered you in the least, had it been attached to an E36 M3. Or maybe it would have.

    To be honest, I enjoy reading your posts more than most because I know you will never hold back on how you really feel. As in "BMW builds such crappy cars". But I also assume you are more than intelligent enough to know that such extremely worded comments are also more likely to elicit responses. For example, I have close enough to first hand experience (i.e within my extended family) to accurately claim that if BMW builds "crappy cars", than Audi is fully two notches below BMW on the feces scale.

    Don't take my responses as anything more than a friendly volley back at you. You serve up a lot of aces that I agree with, but I'm still holding a racket, just to keep you honest. ;)
  • hausshauss Posts: 169
    I'm talking about the sedan also. blueguydotcom, how can you find the G35 small inside when you drive a 330i? Your car is smaller. What was it about it that made it feel smaller to you?
  • hausshauss Posts: 169
    hab, I've got to agree with blueguydotcom on the interior space of the G35...to an extent. I found the driver's seat to be a bit cramped too. Now I'll admit I didn't drive it but I've sat in it twice now (once in a show room and another time at an Auto Show). I felt like a lot of things were creeping up on me much like blueguydotcom felt. I wonder how it drives? Suppose I should test drive one someday for grins and giggles? Also, I know the numbers suggest the G35 has the most combined leg room but why does it seem that my TL is roomier? Maybe it's the little things like the design of the back of the front seats or something.
  • hausshauss Posts: 169
    blueguydotcom, until I've read your posts I've never heard of e46 or e90 or ZHP. Can you enlighten me and tell me what they stand for or where they come from, please?
  • hausshauss Posts: 169
    I went to the Atlanta Auto Show today and got a chance yet again to see all the major ELLPS up close and personal. Just wanted to share some thoughts on what I saw. I'll keep it brief. I'm unimpressed with the current CTS. The materials used for the interior are subpar. I believe the interior materials used on the new Camry are nicer. There was not one thing I liked about the interior. So, to me it was not luxurious in the least. I was also not that impressed with the interior of the IS350. I've heard several on here state it's the nicest of all the ELLPS but a lot of gray plastic trying to look like aluminum and little leather trim. It wasn't horrible but I didn't find it to be as nice as an Audi's or a TL's.

    And for all you CTS fans. They had the 2008 on display and it is a sharp looking car on the outside. You couldn't get up close and personal with it because it was off limits to get in. From what I could see though it was a marked improvement in every way. Very nice looking car.

    Alright all of you...fire away!
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,210
    "Audi is fully two notches below BMW on the feces scale."

    I've been reading (& writing) this stuff on Edmunds for a number of years, for a number of reasons, and that phrase is a keeper. My put is that neither of these cars, let alone the companies that produce them, is all that bad, but maybe that's because I'm ignorant.

    That said, I'll retain the right to fill in the blanks for the former and the latter car names in your phrase. . .and credit the author. Thanks, Habitat. The feces scale is something that clearly needed inventing, and I'm happy to carry it forward.

    Party on!
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    hauss,

    blueguydotcom is referring to the nomenclature for the specific BMW models. A quick cheat sheet (off the top of my head so may be off by a year here and there) is as follows:

    3-Series:
    E30 -- 1983-1991
    E36 -- 1991-1998
    E46 -- 1999-2005
    E90 -- 2006- (Coupe version called E92)

    5-Series:
    E28 -- 1982-1988
    E34 -- 1988-1996
    E39 -- 1997-2003
    E60 -- 2004-

    Options:
    ZPP -- Premium Package
    ZSP -- Sport Package
    ZHP -- Performance Package (kind of a breathed on ZSP)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • hausshauss Posts: 169
    Thanks shipo!
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Sorry. Stressful weekend. My car is generating interest and I'm still not sure a GTI will be something I can live with daily.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Yeah, I'm essentially one phone caller away from a GTI. Someone takes my 330i off my hands, I move to a GTI. Not digging on the big, isolated tank - haven't been from the day I picked it up in Munich.
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 971
    would you like a mini cooper?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Nope. drove a 2007 Cooper S 6MT about 3 weeks ago.

    Positives: solid handling, decent ride, good resale, good gas mileage, comfort access, highly customizable, nice bulldog stance/appearance.

    Negatives: (in order of importance) 2 door, peaky-engine (very off-on turbo setup - reminded me of the original WRX), tons of torque steer at WOT, RFTs, lousy manual, bad ergonomics, BMW connection, pricing at msrp, frameless door glass (uses that same breakage prone system as BMW), association with Cult of Mini, no local dealerships in San Diego, no trunk space, no access to backseats, common.
  • If I were you, I'd take a little more time to make sure you really want what you are going to get, before you sell your 330i.

    To me, a Volkswagon GTI seems like a dramatic change, and not an obviously positive one. You may be calling the 330i a "big isolated tank" to help convince yourself that you want to make the move to something else. I would just hope that you aren't finding in a few months that the budget oriented VW, with front wheel drive and a turbocharged 4 cylinder (still a hefty 3,150 lb curb weight) isn't your cup of tea either. And with VW's poor resale and lousy dealership/service reputation, that will only add insult to your injury. I have no axe to grind with VW. Nor do I feel particularly loyal to BMW - I tried my best to talk a 30-something single associate out of a 645i two years ago and now he's taking a bath because he finally figured out it wasn't a sports car and is sick of driving "an old fart's GT".

    If you have any second thoughts, that's a good sign to hold off. Your 330i won't depreciate significantly if you hold onto it for another month or two. But the wrong decision could have you personally and financially frustrated.

    P.S. Same is true for wives. I'm fortunate that although not all of my car decisions were the best, I'm still happily married to my first. ;)

    P.P.S. I'm writing from Germany. Took a 997 GT3 for an extended test drive on the autobahn. That 8,400 rpm free-revving engine and light weight RWD now has me feeling like my 6 month old 911 Turbo is an overweight tank! It happens to the best of us.
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