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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • nkeennkeen Posts: 316
    How about a good, clean, low miles E46, if that's where your heart is and if you can find the right one?
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,354
    Blue,

    What about an Evo? Have you test driven one?

    Regards,
    OW
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 972
    Well, if you're considering a GTI, why hot the Mazdaspeed 3 ?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    This is the ELLPS forum, so no need to focus on my desire to get rid of my ELLPS.

    Trust me, I've tried everything. Short of waiting on the 08 WRX/Evo, the car I've chosen is the only thing I know I like.

    Guess it doesn't count as an official ELLPS, but my fiancee made an offer on a 2006 A3 last night. The couple needs to get the title straight with Audi before selling it to us. I always thought a dealer can facilitate a change of ownership, thus negating the hassle of the owner getting their car's title?
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Blue, good luck with the GTI if you decide to go that route. I am pretty sure it'll be a fun car to drive but the legendary VW reliability...Yuk.

    Any chance that we'll see you in a BMW 130i couple years from now?
  • allargonallargon Posts: 75
    The front seat of a 330i w/ the sport package is leagues more comfortable than the '07 G35 sport.

    I'm not sure about Blueguy. However, anyone with shoulders (fat, athletic, muscular, etc.) will probably not like the G35 Sport. The seats just made my arms feel pushed in--more so than many compact cars I've driven. In fact, I would have to go back to the times I rented an Aveo (definitely not ELLPS) from Enterprise to recall such a cramped feeling. I don't recall there being much headroom w/ the G35, either. I'm also 5'7" and err... larger than many of you. The only seat I thought felt a bit loose was the CTS.

    Driving position and comfort is a major factor with any car. It's amazing that the current CTS (lacks telescoping steering wheel) sells so well.
  • hausshauss Posts: 169
    I'm 6' 1" and ~200 lbs. My build is I guess you'd say athletic and both the 3 series and G35 are cramped up front for me but the 3 series I find more so. I just sat in them both again yesterday at the Atlanta Auto Show and I was squeezed. I had surgery on my left shoulder and haven't lifted in 6 months because of it and I was still squeezed. Maybe that's why I found the G to be better this time around compared to the last time I got in one. They're both nice cars but just not for me. Now, the CTS until yesterday I had never even sat in. Man, they use some very poor materials in that thing. It's a good thing they're putting it to pasture after this MY. I mean what's with the joysticks on the vents? And I think the door material on a Civic might be higher quality. My apologies to Rockylee and plako but I now know why you guys are so excited for the '08 version. Without the badges on them one would never know those two cars are related.
  • nkeennkeen Posts: 316
    I've driven the GTi, both manual and DSG. It's a great car, especially based on a test drive immediately following a Mustang GT test -- horrible car. I was bitten by reliability problem in my Mk 4, but perhaps they've got their act together now. The Mk 5 was German built at introduction -- not sure if it still is.

    The back seat space is so big in those cars, I almost fell over striding into the back seat in the 2 door -- cavernous.
  • ontopontop Posts: 279
    Right there with ya on the cockpit claustrophobia. I went to the BMW dealership with every intention of buying a 328 or 335. After a 15 minute test drive all I wanted to do was get out of that car and streeeeetttttcccchhhhh.

    I'm 6'1" 215, used to have the V cut - now heading for the pear-cut.

    The G35 wasn't much better. Too narrow. Am I the only one with a 38' waist? Seems like the seat was designed for someone with a swimmer's frame, not a footballer's.

    The Acura TL seems to have a ton of room compared to these others. I don't care what stats someone will post about cubic feet of interior room of the TL vs the others. My cubic feet doesn't fit in half the cars in this comparo.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    I am 36-34, around 185 to 190 lbs and 6'1. All the ELLPS (IS, G, and 3er) fit me just fine. I felt Acura TL lacks the cabin feel that the IS and G have offered.
  • hausshauss Posts: 169
    I guess this stuff is subjective. I've read previous posts from you where you stated you felt the IS had the best interior in the class. I've been in one twice now and to me it's just loaded with large pieces of gray plastic. It reminds me of something I've seen recently in a sport edition Camry. It looks sort of space age and cool if you haven't been in anything nicer but it's just not high quality, expensive material like it should be in a car of this price. It's also the same material I saw in the 2003 G35 and it just doesn't say luxury to me.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Ditto if Lexus is to replace those metallic plastic trim with real aluminum the IS interior will look even more upscale. However, Lexus does offer maple wood as an option over those metallic trim. For me I think the metallic trim makes the cabin feel more sporty so I am willing to accept that it's not the top notch quality material (But Lexus, why not the real aluminum??? :confuse: ). As for your information, I have been inside every ELLPS that the market has to offer and much more, IMO, the only other ELLPS that can rival IS interior's material quality (let's use the wood trim for this one, shall we), fit and finish and dash/gauge design are: Acura TL and MB C-class.

    3er utilized great quality material but the overall cabin design is just awful. Center stack looks like something from the 90s, definitely does not have a "modern" look that a current day benchmark ELLPS should have. I much prefer E46's over the current version. Audi A4, again, has great material but the design looks plain and out-dated to me. G35's cabin looks great from the picture but once inside, the inferior material starts to pop up here and there and eventually got on my nerve during a test drive. Also, the position of the controllers for the screen is just awkward. Why does Infiniti think that those controllers will be better off facing UP instead of facing ME, THE DRIVER is beyond me. :confuse: However, I do like the washi aluminum trim though, great touch. As for the current CTS, let's not even go there...I have great hope for the 2008 CTS and just hope it won't become one of those great-on-picture-not-so-much-in-person interiors.

    BTW, hauss, I am going to the Atlanta Auto Show this weekend as well. I attend that show every year.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,354
    Louis,

    Take some nice Pix of ELLPS is you can. We can compare to see if CTS moves up.

    Regards,
    OW
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    The only thing I despise about the interior of the TL is that fake wood they use in there. Completely unacceptable IMHO.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    circlew, I don't think they'll allow people to be inside the 2008 CTS. Last I heard, it's going to be display model only. However, if I do find a way to get inside I'll report back ASAP. My suggestion: don't hold your breath.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Are you sure those wood trims are fake on the TL? Oh well, I much prefer the aluminum/metallic trim over wood anyway.

    Edit:

    I guess it is fake. From Edmunds: The TL Type-S receives a more powerful engine, a sport-tuned suspension, performance tires and more powerful brakes. The navigation system is standard, the interior is trimmed with aluminum and fake carbon fiber instead of fake wood, special sport seats promise more lateral support, the LED instrumentation glows red and blue and the pedals are finished in aluminum.

    Geez, even the carbon-fiber trim on the TL-S is fake as well. Looks like Acura does have to incorporate some cost cutting in order to offer the best value in class.

    Here's the link: 2007 Acura TL
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,354
    OK...just saw that it will be destined for global export. We will see what the interest will be vs. competition.

    Regards,
    OW
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 972
    Why even care if it is real or fake aluminum? Or wood?

    Aluminum oxidizes very quickly so it must be coated with plastic anyway. So even if you get real aluminum in your car it is real plastic that you touch and feel. And what would be so good about the feel of real aluminum anyway? Aluminum is not so pretty to look at. It is just gray. So what? And if they add fake grain effects to the aluminum, why not just make it real plastic to begin with? The plastic may be easier and less expensive to make and form into the pieces. That does not make it bad.
    Same idea with fake (real plastic) wood and real wood. The real wood is filled, sanded, polished and then coated with real plastic varnish or overlay, so why not just use real plastic instead of wood to begin with? If the manufacturers use real wood, they do everything they can to make the wood look like plastic, then they coat it with real plastic besides! So again, what you touch is real plastic, not the real wood underneath.
    Real wood is not so dimensionally stable, impervious to moisture and uniformly strong as modern plastics, so wood has a tendency to split, crack, shrink and expand which causes it to lose (in most people's opinions) its beauty eventually, and quicker than modern plastics would.
    Photographic images or artists' interpretations of real wood can be placed on real plastic so accurately that even an expert would have a hard time telling the difference.

    So what's the big deal?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Hmmm, I love my real aluminum trim. Do i wish it was the black cube aluminum of my ZHP? Yep, but this stuff looks infinitely better to me than pimp-like wood in a car.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    The big deal IMHO is that none of the cars in this segment are your "average" daily drivers. The materials used in the inside should reflect the price being charged for the vehicle.
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